Liverpool FC Forum

[Reg]

If you pull together the threads about whether BR is upto the job, if the squad is good enough and why we bought Balotelli, you face the inevitable question: Do Liverpool want to win the league?

Strangely, I don't think so, no.

Why? Improvement is a staged process and we're not at the stage of sustaining a league challenge. Suarez went on a one man jihad last year and dragged the rest of the club with him. Our response? to use the money to expand the squad rather than buy in kwality.

So we qualified for CL, it's semantics whether we came 2nd or 4th but we kept to the business plan of beefing up the squad with lads of dependable quality but not superstars. ManUre, Chelsea etc.. splash out and by the stars as they already have strong squads  but as I've said before, why would a star come to Anfield if there's no one else of a similar quality to provide the momentum to dominate other teams and eventually, the league?

We'll also have the stadium investment swinging round our necks for a few years - 3 at least. So we can't roll the dice both on and off the field.

In short, forget Suarez, forget coming second. We qualified for CL, so we expanded the squad with a few 20 million pound players. Its blatantly obvious we're not going to win the league with this squad, but if we can book 3 successive CL seasons and a couple of cup runs, we'll we ready for the next push to start bringing in big names. But it aint going to happen overnight.

So whilst the fans want to win, I don't think the club does. Lets also face it, we fans are way too emotional and can never see the wood for the trees and yes, it hurts.

[Stu the Red]

The difference is when managers sign a player they usually do it to improve the team, or to help a club improve… when we sign a player, there is no plan or reason apart from he's young and we might make money on them one day… it gives the impression that our owners aren't interested in anything other than making a quick quid…

However, the stupidity comes from them not realizing that the only way to earn money from football is to win and keep winning, the only way to do that is with top players

[red till i die!!]

If FSG are just looking to make a quick quid then they are in for a shock as what rodgers has bought, has no where near enough resale value to offset the initial out lay.

I think they do want to win the league though    but just not by paying top dollar for it.
I believe they have also invested enough money in the side to build a squad and then in the summer they released more money to buy better players to cope with the demands that would be placed on us this season. That money should have been spent on 3 top players to complete the squad he spent the last 2 years building. We had a side that could have won it last season and with the loss of one player its gone to pot and now we are talking about another few years. Even the squad we are left with is really poor and thats why it will take us a few years more and that's a big gamble if that numpty is allowed to carry on like he has.

They bought the club and have been very successful in improving the business end of it but have left the football end to people out of their depth. I wouldnt think they would be happy with the slide this season at all and especially when the likes of southampton and west ham are comfortably sitting above us. Like us they probably thought we we would be up there again this season and having a right go at it. I'm sure they are equally disappointed that it isn't going to happen and John Henry probably feels like he has been had.
They might be investors but they have experience in sports and they fully realise the benefits that come with being successful on the pitch and winning leagues.

[RedAnt]

The club probably wants to win the league. Why not? But they also know it's a business and that as a business model LFC is not yet set up to win it. Strange things happen in footie and teams can both under and over achieve, but at the start of the season you analyse the situation and set a target, of course.
Last seasons target was probably 4th and we made 2nd. I would think that 4th was this seasons target too but with the added requirement of looking more solid and setting the team on the road to next seasons target...maybe 3rd.
It does take time to build a squad to win the league, unless of course you can dive into the transfer market again and again without fear of failure as some clubs have done.
Personally I hate that approach and consider it the anti-sport. It's akin to using steroids in athletics, or homing missiles instead of darts. So another question could be: how do we want to win the league?

[Stu the Red]

Can someone please explain to me what I am missing?

I thought you improve by getting in better than what you already have… not by bringing more of the same in… Maybe it's naive of me to expect better players to yield better results.

I heard it all before and all summer off Muppets telling how we've improved the squad… it's rubbish quite frankly… you improve your team…not your ""squad" anyone who thinks you will improve a league placing by increasing numbers rather than quality who is a deluded Muppet.

***** me right off that people buy into this rubbish

[ballotelliman]

the problem is fsg want young potential players. Well in this league ucannot have that its to brutal. You need to buy in the 24-27 year bracket at least. Think about it if everyone in the squad is 22 and below none of then would of played in top competition. You need experienced campaigners like stevie in your squad. look at chelski full of experienced internationals with a sprinkling of youth. Were the exact opposite full of kids with a couple of old timers. You cannot look 2 or 3 seasons ahead in this league. Players like huntelaar lavezzi de rossi players of that caliber and experience is needed so the younger guys can learn off them. Who they got in training to learn off no-one. look how long it took hendo to get himself established

[LFC1990]

We brought in 4 players of the age range you stated we should in the last window.

None of them have shown much promise apart from Lallana.

Lovren or Mangala I would have went for Mangala (mangala is 23)
Balotelli or Lukaku I would have went for Lukaku ( Lukaku is 21)

Thats two improvements on our first 11 for younger players who went to premier league teams this summer not to mention

Chambers
Berahino
Shaw

If they replaced Johnson,Enrique and Borini We would be a hell of alot stronger

[Stu the Red]

You improve by improving… not by adding numbers.

Crystal f*cking clear, age has f*ck all to do with anything. As I said earlier, anyone who thinks numbers improve a team over quality is a Muppet

[RedAnt]

You improve by improving… not by adding numbers.

Crystal f*cking clear, age has f*ck all to do with anything. As I said earlier, anyone who thinks numbers improve a team over quality is a Muppet

You don't think you're oversimplifying? Of course we need quality in the squad, and all of that is discussed elsewhere. Why keep hammering the same point in every thread?
There's a great deal of sense in signing young players with potential, and of course they need to play with experienced, quality players to help their development.
But gone are the days you could sign Jan Molby for 50k or whatever he cost. Clubs have vast scouting networks and players such as Sami Hyypia are extremely rare gems. Competition for players is fierce and values and potential values are insane.
There's lots involved that you're overlooking. Wage structures, transfer funds, financial fair play. We don't get first pick of the players anymore and so we have to be more selective and yet take the occasional gamble. But a gamble of today's level can cost you £20m. Or more if you lose multiple gambles.
Instead we need to plan. Buy players who we hope we can coach and nurture their potential into a unit that will be self sustaining in future seasons.
Like I said, FSG are a business. And as Bill Gates said on The Simpsons "hah! I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks!"

[LFC1990]

You improve by improving… not by adding numbers.

Crystal f*cking clear, age has f*ck all to do with anything. As I said earlier, anyone who thinks numbers improve a team over quality is a Muppet

Pretty much what i was suggesting.

You could probably put a team together of under 24s who would walk this league. Quality is quality no matter the age

[Stu the Red]

In what possible way am I overlooking and over simplifying things? What a stupid cop out of an argument that is. We should an identifying where we need to improve, how it will improve us and who does the job. We don't do that. Not ever.

It probably seems to mind blowingly simple to people like you as you want it to be so over complicated process you can't see the wood for the trees…

My attitude is simple, want to improve your goalkeeper? By a goalkeeper, not a twenty year old striker who you're going to leave out on loan.

We needed a keeper badly, we signed origi, moreno and markovic, forty odd million worth of dog Sh*t

[LFC1990]

See you have valid arguments then ruin it by saying that Origi and Moreno are dog Sh*t

[RedAnt]

Stu, I think you're taking this thread in the direction you take all threads. You also seem to forget what people type elsewhere, such as opinions on BR and his signings and everything else. Just because I see sense in long term investment and growth doesn't mean I think the teams wonderful and everything's dandy. I've discussed that kinda thing in its relevant threads.
Not that what you say isn't relevant here, but come on dude, allow others to express their opinions. Your opinions are well known and I'm not sure it needs to repeatedly stated whenever someone has a different view.

[Dundreamin is back]

Of course we want to win the league there would be no point in existing if we didn't. I personally think it's a psychological problem with the expectation and more importantly the club's history. If you look at the last three seasons we have come 2nd the following season we implode,surely that's not a coincidence. Last season we played fantastic football especially from January and we didn't throw it away we were very unlucky with the Chelsea game. As for the Palace game the media said we bottled it,I disagree when we were 3-0 up I can understand that we wanted a landfill as had we gone on to win 6-0,7-0, or even 8-0 i am convinced we would be reigning Champions now. It haunts me to this day

[Stu the Red]

Excuses excuses, we were not in any way unlucky in the Chelsea game, Rodgers allowed a better manager to pull his pants down and hand him his ego on a plate.

When you finish second you need to improve, we never do that, always release our best players… we then go backwards… it's very simple…it's very clear and it's very obvious and it keeps happening because Muppets keep making the same mistakes as everyone else…

Its a bloody joke and I am sick of seeing it over and over