Andy Carroll signs for West Ham

The Premiership - General Discussion

Postby D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:32 pm

andy_g » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:29 am wrote:its absolutely pointless discussing anything to do with andy carroll with you. you stick with your views if they make you happy.


There has never been any discussing... the rose tinted brigade don't discuss anything.... "you're a dikhead"... "talking sh't"... "carroll is boss"

This is the level of response... no content.

Everything i have stated is actually based on evidence.. whether it be match reports, statistics, the general consensus of mainstream opinion, or from the horses mouth such as Comolli.
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Postby RedAnt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:40 pm

D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:32 pm wrote:
andy_g » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:29 am wrote:its absolutely pointless discussing anything to do with andy carroll with you. you stick with your views if they make you happy.


There has never been any discussing... the rose tinted brigade don't discuss anything.... "you're a dikhead"... "talking sh't"... "carroll is boss"

This is the level of response... no content.

Everything i have stated is actually based on evidence.. whether it be match reports, statistics, the general consensus of mainstream opinion, or from the horses mouth such as Comolli.


Off the top of my head....I remember on several occasions that you state "Carroll is a £12m player". You don't state that it's your evaluation or opinion or anything but simple fact that he's a £12m player which is odd since we paid £35m for him. I guess since you state it as fact rather than opinion that you know better than the professionals. That's just off the top of my head. There are many examples of you claiming falsities and/or opinions as fact.

Even your claims of rose-tinted fans is false. Most, if not all of Carroll's defenders give views of both for and against. I myself think Carroll could be working harder (and he's starting to work harder too), that he has a looong way to go yet.

the difference between rose-tinted glasses and sh*t smeared glasses is that ....well, you simply don't wanna wipe that sh*t off those glasses, do ya, whilst I can lift my rose tinted glasses and look from a different perspective.
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Postby stmichael » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:46 pm

D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:46 am wrote:
heimdall » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:38 pm wrote:Look I'm not Carroll's biggest fan either but you have to agree that he's improved recently, I can actually see a glimmer of a good striker now. He could be the next Lucas and I'd be more than happy to eat humble pie if that happens.


Two games ago you were slaughtering him, along with most of the country.

You are doing a u-turn because hes got on the end of two moves with headers? Are you that fickle? Is that all it takes to change a view?

Look at both games...against Blackburn he was appalling for 91 minutes.. read the in game thread.. or even better.. watch the 90 minutes. His best effort was a backward header towards our own goal which Jones tipped over. Take out the 92nd minute header and he would be getting hammered.

Vs Bitters... anonymous first half, start of the second missed a sitter, next involvement puts a shot wide... and then in the 87th minute flicked a header in. Before the usual accusations i'm not taking anything away from him as he scored the winner at Wembley against the bitters to put us into a cup final, and for that goal alone im hugely grateful to him.... but im not fickle to suddenly change my mind on a player because of two isolated moments. Luis was the best forward at Wembley.. and the second best was wearing blue.

I have seen nothing to suggest hes anything more than a 12m pound player, and one who is suited to a direct/aerial team (from which he has benefited in the last two games). No successful side play this way.. and in doing so we are not playing to the strengths of our best player Suarez. Comolli was sacked because of his transfers, a transfer policy geared toward andy carroll.


you don't half spout some drivel. against blackburn he was playing upfront on his own when we were down to 10 men ffs. he had nobody within 30-40 yards of him at times. what exactly were you expecting?

and as for the second best forward on the day against everton "wearing blue" i presume your on about jelavic, who scored a goal and apart from that spent the rest of the game throwing himself all over the place looking for free kicks? it was embarassing. i thought you didn't watch the game anyway?

i'm beginning to think this vendetta you have against carroll is personal.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:18 pm

D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:32 pm wrote:
andy_g » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:29 am wrote:its absolutely pointless discussing anything to do with andy carroll with you. you stick with your views if they make you happy.


There has never been any discussing... the rose tinted brigade don't discuss anything.... "you're a dikhead"... "talking sh't"... "carroll is boss"

This is the level of response... no content.

Everything i have stated is actually based on evidence.. whether it be match reports, statistics, the general consensus of mainstream opinion, or from the horses mouth such as Comolli.


I have said it before and I will repeat: "You are NO Liverpudlian"
It is impossible for any true Red to slag off, especially after winning two games including a semi final cup game against our biggest enemy, one of our best players on the day. Impossible! Someone who hated Carroll (and by rights is a pr'ick anyway) would even have to say that he is slightly improving and could possibly end up being a good player for us. They would at least have to concede that. But not you.
"rose tinted brigade" That phrase gives a great insight into what your real agenda is and only a non-LFC supporter would have said that. You have let yourself slip a few times and I am on it. I say to the mods you should be kept on this forum as an example of how an imposter works and how they can be sussed out. I would personally guess youre a manc or a chelsea fan because youre too intelligent to be a bitter bluenose. The problem you have is I am far more cleverer than what you is
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:54 pm

D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:56 am wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:02 pm wrote:whats wrong with scoring with your head? i`d say at least half of the goals aldo scored in that late 80`s team were with his head and a lot of keegans goals came from headers too, just because your forward scores plenty of headers doesnt mean the team plays alehouse football. was john barnes an alehouse player for putting so many crosses in?
and andy carroll is good on the floor, granted when he first arrived his touch wasnt great but it has been improving all season and now the ball sticks to him like glue, with his back to goal and defenders all over him he probably retains possession better than suarez now.
carroll is playing well, a lot of neutrals and even the liverpool echo had him down as MoM on saturday, if he`s as $h1te as you make him out to be how come he put in a match winning performance in the biggest derby game in a quarter of a century? surely if he is as useless as you say he is he wouldnt have the ability to that.


I didnt say "hes sh'te"... its all relative. If we were Stoke i'd be praising him to the heavens,,, because he would be at our level. This is Liverpool.. big difference.

As i said in a previous post... peter crouch is a better player than andy carroll.. and not one person on here would dispute that. But was peter crouch good enough for Liverpool? Was peter crouch good enough to lead a Liverpool title challenging/winning side? No (and let me add again i liked crouch.. but he was not good enough.. for us)


i wouldnt swap carroll for crouch, and anyway by comparing carroll to crouch now your not comparing like for like, like centre halves target men centre forwards take years to develop and crouch is in his footballing prime where as carroll is nowhere near it yet.
it`s like comparing a young alan hansen to phil thompson, hansen went on to be better than thompson but it was thompson who baled the young hansen out in the european cup final when he did a distain like pass but thompson got back to clear it off the line.
a better comparison would be to see where crouch was at the same stage of his career, at andy`s age crouch was an unknown at QPR and that was even before crouch`s £5m (big money back then) move to villa which didnt go well for him. he was branded a joke and a donkey etc but surprise surprise with a few years experience under his belt he`s playing in CL finals and doing that robot dance after scoring goals for england.
i`d say crouch and carroll are about as good as each other at the moment but the diffence is crouch wont get any better and carroll will get a lot better, just like a centre half is a lot better at 29 than he is at 23.
carroll is better than crouch in the air and he`s a lot more aggressive than crouch, crouch never used his size well imo.
the best teams i ever saw at anfield (late 70`s and late 80`s) both had target men forwards leading the line, both of those sides played better footy than the early 80`s team where dalglish and rush lead the line, just because you have a target man up front doesnt mean you cant play great footy, not only liverpool i`ve seen loads of teams with big men up front who played good stuff, bobby robsons ipswich side with muhren and theissen pulling the strings in midfield was lauded for playing great footy but they had paul mariner up front, everton were great to watch in the 80`s and they had really classy players like trevor steven, kevin sheedy and gary lineker but they also had graeme sharpe who was a right handful for any defence.
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Postby D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:21 pm

stmichael » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:46 pm wrote:you don't half spout some drivel. against blackburn he was playing upfront on his own when we were down to 10 men ffs. he had nobody within 30-40 yards of him at times. what exactly were you expecting?

and as for the second best forward on the day against everton "wearing blue" i presume your on about jelavic, who scored a goal and apart from that spent the rest of the game throwing himself all over the place looking for free kicks? it was embarassing. i thought you didn't watch the game anyway?

i'm beginning to think this vendetta you have against carroll is personal.


Fair enough on the Blackburn game.. i agree with that.

I have nothing personal against him whatsoever.. infact i have repeatedly stated i like him (comes across a very decent lad). I was also delighted for him personally that his winner against the bitters at Wembley to put us into a Cup final was arguably the sweetest goal in the last five/six years for us (certainly since Garcia's goal vs Chelsea in May 2005). He, imo, is a 12m player who has changed the way we play.

Ask yourself three questions.

Is Peter Crouch a better player than Carroll?
Was Peter Crouch good enough to lead a Liverpool forward line to win/challenge for League/CL?
Is a direct/aerial style of play successful?

The answer to those questions are the reasons why i have stated what i have.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:28 pm

D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:21 pm wrote:
stmichael » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:46 pm wrote:you don't half spout some drivel. against blackburn he was playing upfront on his own when we were down to 10 men ffs. he had nobody within 30-40 yards of him at times. what exactly were you expecting?

and as for the second best forward on the day against everton "wearing blue" i presume your on about jelavic, who scored a goal and apart from that spent the rest of the game throwing himself all over the place looking for free kicks? it was embarassing. i thought you didn't watch the game anyway?

i'm beginning to think this vendetta you have against carroll is personal.


Fair enough on the Blackburn game.. i agree with that.

I have nothing personal whatsoever against him.. infact i have repeatedly stated i like him (comes across a very decent lad). I was also delighted for him personally that his winner against the bitters at Wembley to put us into a Cup final was arguably the sweetest goal in the last five/six years for us (certainly since Garcia's goal vs Chelsea in May 2005). He, imo, is a 12m player who has changed the way we play.

Ask yourself three questions.

Is Peter Crouch a better player than Carroll?
Was Peter Crouch good enough to lead a Liverpool forward line to win/challenge for League/CL?
Is a direct/aerial style of play successful?

The answer to those questions are the reasons why i have stated what i have.


1, no he`s not
2, yes if he has the right team mates around him, and benitez made a mistake not playing him in athens, ancelotti double bluffed him and he fell for it.
3, who said having a target man up front means you have to play a long ball style?
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Postby D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:30 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:54 pm wrote:i wouldnt swap carroll for crouch, and anyway by comparing carroll to crouch now your not comparing like for like, like centre halves target men centre forwards take years to develop and crouch is in his footballing prime where as carroll is nowhere near it yet.
it`s like comparing a young alan hansen to phil thompson, hansen went on to be better than thompson but it was thompson who baled the young hansen out in the european cup final when he did a distain like pass but thompson got back to clear it off the line.
a better comparison would be to see where crouch was at the same stage of his career, at andy`s age crouch was an unknown at QPR and that was even before crouch`s £5m (big money back then) move to villa which didnt go well for him. he was branded a joke and a donkey etc but surprise surprise with a few years experience under his belt he`s playing in CL finals and doing that robot dance after scoring goals for england.
i`d say crouch and carroll are about as good as each other at the moment but the diffence is crouch wont get any better and carroll will get a lot better, just like a centre half is a lot better at 29 than he is at 23.
carroll is better than crouch in the air and he`s a lot more aggressive than crouch, crouch never used his size well imo.
the best teams i ever saw at anfield (late 70`s and late 80`s) both had target men forwards leading the line, both of those sides played better footy than the early 80`s team where dalglish and rush lead the line, just because you have a target man up front doesnt mean you cant play great footy, not only liverpool i`ve seen loads of teams with big men up front who played good stuff, bobby robsons ipswich side with muhren and theissen pulling the strings in midfield was lauded for playing great footy but they had paul mariner up front, everton were great to watch in the 80`s and they had really classy players like trevor steven, kevin sheedy and gary lineker but they also had graeme sharpe who was a right handful for any defence.


At least you come up with a counter argument.. certainly beats "your a dick'ead".

Crouch, on the floor, is on a different planet to Carroll. In his 17 match run (or whatever it was) without a goal, there was very few calls for him to be dropped because his all round play was excellent. He was laying it off, linking up with midfield, creating chances for others... none of which carroll has done. If carroll doesnt win a flick on he is anonymous in the game.
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Postby RichardLFC1 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:30 pm

Andy has scored only 8 times this year HOWEVER the goals he has scored are important

Exeter away carling cup came off the bench
Everton away premier league put us 1-0 up
WBA away premier league
Oldham  home Fa cup came of the bench
Wolves away premier league
Brighton home Fa cup
Blackburn away Premierleague scored the winner
Everton Neutral fa cup Scored the winner

looking over it has he only scored twice at home ??

Very instrumental in our cup runs, Considering he hasnt really played back to back games, his goals in the league Everton,WBA,Wolves and Blackburn all away

D _C i dont want to pick on you if it sounds like it i Appoloise but what would Carroll have to do to make you get off his back
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:04 pm

D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:30 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:54 pm wrote:i wouldnt swap carroll for crouch, and anyway by comparing carroll to crouch now your not comparing like for like, like centre halves target men centre forwards take years to develop and crouch is in his footballing prime where as carroll is nowhere near it yet.
it`s like comparing a young alan hansen to phil thompson, hansen went on to be better than thompson but it was thompson who baled the young hansen out in the european cup final when he did a distain like pass but thompson got back to clear it off the line.
a better comparison would be to see where crouch was at the same stage of his career, at andy`s age crouch was an unknown at QPR and that was even before crouch`s £5m (big money back then) move to villa which didnt go well for him. he was branded a joke and a donkey etc but surprise surprise with a few years experience under his belt he`s playing in CL finals and doing that robot dance after scoring goals for england.
i`d say crouch and carroll are about as good as each other at the moment but the diffence is crouch wont get any better and carroll will get a lot better, just like a centre half is a lot better at 29 than he is at 23.
carroll is better than crouch in the air and he`s a lot more aggressive than crouch, crouch never used his size well imo.
the best teams i ever saw at anfield (late 70`s and late 80`s) both had target men forwards leading the line, both of those sides played better footy than the early 80`s team where dalglish and rush lead the line, just because you have a target man up front doesnt mean you cant play great footy, not only liverpool i`ve seen loads of teams with big men up front who played good stuff, bobby robsons ipswich side with muhren and theissen pulling the strings in midfield was lauded for playing great footy but they had paul mariner up front, everton were great to watch in the 80`s and they had really classy players like trevor steven, kevin sheedy and gary lineker but they also had graeme sharpe who was a right handful for any defence.


At least you come up with a counter argument.. certainly beats "your a dick'ead".

Crouch, on the floor, is on a different planet to Carroll. In his 17 match run (or whatever it was) without a goal, there was very few calls for him to be dropped because his all round play was excellent. He was laying it off, linking up with midfield, creating chances for others... none of which carroll has done. If carroll doesnt win a flick on he is anonymous in the game.


i wouldnt say say crouch is that much better than carroll on the deck now, granted when carroll first got into the team he looked out of sorts but over the last few months he`s improved and over the last few weeks or so his touch has been excellent, carroll`s ability to recieve and keep the ball in heavy traffic is as good as anyones in the league at the moment including rooney and van persie. i watched those players over the weekend and the ball often got away from them or bounced off their knee`s / shins etc when defenders got into them.
dont forget when crouch arrived at anfield he was surrounded by some excellent players, gerrard and carragher were at the peak of their powers and the likes of alonso, mascherano, sissoko, hyypia, riise, garcia, bellamy were in there as well.
when he arrived our fans bragged about having the best midfield in the world, carroll hasnt had that luxury, he hasnt had a 2006-09 version of steven gerrard and xabi alonso putting balls in for him.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:14 pm

D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:30 pm wrote:At least you come up with a counter argument.. certainly beats "your a dick'ead".

Crouch, on the floor, is on a different planet to Carroll. In his 17 match run (or whatever it was) without a goal, there was very few calls for him to be dropped because his all round play was excellent. He was laying it off, linking up with midfield, creating chances for others... none of which carroll has done. If carroll doesnt win a flick on he is anonymous in the game.


I tell you what lets take the two careers into perspective shall we ? Crouch is 31 and at Andy's age Aston Villa sold him after scoring a
breathtakingly colossal  6 goals in 37 games to Southampton . hardly ground breaking, I'm sure you will agree  ?   So anyway after an
impressive stint at the Saints scoring 12 goals ....Rafa Benitez snatched him away ,and after a deeming him good enough for a
consistent  spell in the first team ,he finally scored after four months of regular involvement  :oh:

So Peter  finally leaves the Reds with a massive tally of 22 goals in 85 appearances ......So the question remains are you
honestly  saying the guy was a prolific striker ?

Andy Carroll is the future , whether you concur with that knowledge is your personal preference ,but surely even someone plagued by
such chronic tunnel vision must see the improvement the lad has made ?
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Postby stmichael » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:28 pm

D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:21 pm wrote:Ask yourself three questions.

Is Peter Crouch a better player than Carroll?
Was Peter Crouch good enough to lead a Liverpool forward line to win/challenge for League/CL?
Is a direct/aerial style of play successful?

The answer to those questions are the reasons why i have stated what i have.


1. No he's not. He's still a very capable premier league player and he has a decent return for England. If he was that good Spurs wouldn't have let him go. Lets not also forget that when we brought Carroll, Spurs were also very interested in signing him as a replacement for Crouch.

2. Well he was instrumental in getting us to a CL final in 06/07, scoring home and away against PSV in the quarter final along the way. Leaving him out in Athens was a monumental mistake by Rafa as Kuyt was never capable of playing upfront on his own.

3. Of course it can be. Bolton did it for years despite having some excellent players. Stoke do it now. Hell even Chelsea do it when Drogba's in the side. His goal against Spurs the other day just came from a punt down the field. They'll have to play direct tonight against Barca otherwise they'll get murdered.

Anyway this idea that we all of a sudden become direct with Carroll in the side is a myth. Even if it was the case that's not his fault. It's the fault of the other players in the side who see his presence as an excuse to constantly knock the ball long rather than sticking to the principles of pass and move. Carra has been guilty of this for years.
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Postby RedAnt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:38 pm

I hate b*tching at D_C and believe he/she makes valid and intelligent points. It's a shame that it's all so marred with blatant b*tching and arrogance. D_C, if you're listening, take my advice and change the record. You don't have to change your opinion, just...stop flogging it quite so hard.

As fr Crouch vs Carroll, well, no question. AS RBG's has pointed out, at Carroll's age, Peter Crouch was nothing. And he'd wandered in the wilderness for a long time before he joined Aston Villa, playing for QPR in the lower leagues, Luton and Portsmouth. The only real comparison I see between the two players in the physical sense is their height. On the pitch they're completely different players too...they just both happen to have the 'target man' tag.

If people can't see Andy's qualities, then they don't really know much about football and thus their opinion holds no true value.
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Postby devaney » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:40 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:14 pm wrote:
D___C » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:30 pm wrote:At least you come up with a counter argument.. certainly beats "your a dick'ead".

Crouch, on the floor, is on a different planet to Carroll. In his 17 match run (or whatever it was) without a goal, there was very few calls for him to be dropped because his all round play was excellent. He was laying it off, linking up with midfield, creating chances for others... none of which carroll has done. If carroll doesnt win a flick on he is anonymous in the game.


I tell you what lets take the two careers into perspective shall we ? Crouch is 31 and at Andy's age Aston Villa sold him after scoring a
breathtakingly colossal  6 goals in 37 games to Southampton . hardly ground breaking, I'm sure you will agree  ?   So anyway after an
impressive stint at the Saints scoring 12 goals ....Rafa Benitez snatched him away ,and after a deeming him good enough for a
consistent  spell in the first team ,he finally scored after four months of regular involvement  :oh:

So Peter  finally leaves the Reds with a massive tally of 22 goals in 85 appearances ......So the question remains are you
honestly  saying the guy was a prolific striker ?

Andy Carroll is the future , whether you concur with that knowledge is your personal preference ,but surely even someone plagued by
such chronic tunnel vision must see the improvement the lad has made ?


It's a shame that you have to sarcastically demean Crouchy's performance record to try and win an argument with D_C who frankly should be ignored. Crouchy wasn't the greatest but he worked very hard for the team and whilst 22 goals in 85 matches is not brilliant he doesn't deserve to be belittled.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years (10 years
are in brackets)
LFC £255m (£467m)
Everton £38m (£287m)
Arsenal £645m6 (£925m)
Spurs £510m (£541m)
Chelsea £788m (£1007m)
Man City £307m (£1012m)
Man United £702m (£1249m)
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:49 pm

devaney » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:40 pm wrote:
It's a shame that you have to sarcastically demean Crouchy's performance record to try and win an argument with D_C who frankly should be ignored. Crouchy wasn't the greatest but he worked very hard for the team and whilst 22 goals in 85 matches is not brilliant he doesn't deserve to be belittled.


Its equally shameful you have sat back and allowed  him to constantly make snide fucking comments about Carroll ,and yet chose this moment to
intervene by defending Crouchie .  I mean would you say the need to defend a current Liverpool player outweighs your haste in championing the cause
of an ex Red ???  Maybe you should have took your own advice and ignored my post ?


Just a suggestion mind .
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