Liverpool FC Forum

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:19 pm**

bavlondon wrote:Rafa sounds depressed.

I wonder why....fuc'king players let him down today bigtime!
Im depressed too!

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:21 pm**

Emerald Red wrote:]
I'll speculate then that we have only an 18 year old as cover....

Owen was 17, Carra was 19 (I think) and Gerrard was 18 when they first got brought in. Age has f*ck all to do with it when judging a player. Experience? Erm, how does experience get aquired?[/quote]
In fairness age has plenty to do with it when judging a player, particularly at centre half. There aren't many centre halfs in the World (if any infact) who are good enough to play for a top four Premiership team at 17, 18, 19 years of age.

I appreciate your desire to be positive and the like Emerald, but just occasionally in your efforts to throw a blanket over any dissenting voices you come out with something daft.

You need four credible centre halfs, as we're about to prove. Credible centre halfs in the Premiership aren't 17,18 and 19.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:23 pm**

Emerald Red wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:We don't have enough cover at the back and the manager - as would be expected of him - HAS to put it to the owners to stump up the cash for cover. He didn't and we suffered today.

He didn't? And we know this how? Come on, mate. There's fair criticism (selecting Babel ahead of Benayoun today) and then there's baseless speculation. We're all frustrated with the 'performance' today but let's not get carried away.

Here's what I base this on mate....

How many times this week and last have you read where RB has said "We have no money to spend...". Know what that looks like to me ? Looks like he's airing his dirty linen in public again. Looks like he's having a spat with the owners again.
Know what I think he should have done instead ? Got a blank sheet of paper out and did a little maths: What we recouped from sales this summer vs. what we invested in players (all NET figures, mind....factoring in the actual cash spent on Johnson, netting off what we were owed for Crouch...).
And THEN said to the owners in private : we are in trouble at the back....and put it right.

Completely. Baseless. Speculation.

I'll speculate then that we have only an 18 year old as cover....

Owen was 17, Carra was 19 (I think) and Gerrard was 18 when they first got brought in. Age has f*ck all to do with it when judging a player. Experience? Erm, how does experience get aquired?

Experience is acquired playing 1st team football matches, mate, so I think we agree on that. It does not, however, necessarily have to be on Day 1 of a season when many are predicting - and expecting - you to push for the title (and dare I say win it ?)
There is plenty of scope and opportunity for 1st team experience when you're playing in the Carling Cup, useless FA Cup, or whatever game you're batin' the bejaysus out of some poor unfortunates like Wolves.....
Not on Day 1 however, and not as I say, when you're supposedly in a title winning season away from home...
No need to remind anyone here, but it's a very very long time since we won this damn title, and I don't agree with experimenting with untested youngsters at this level...

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:24 pm**

Lucas did not play a bad game. I think the troubles started in the centre of defense crept up the left side (ok probably some blame can come on the manager here, but he gave Babel a chance, and corrected the mistake when he wasn't playing well), and then Torres wasn't at his sharpest either. Granted he didn't have a lot of glorious chances, but he has played better, Gerrard too, although I would say Gerrard played pretty good and better than Torres. Voronin offered little (except earning the penalty that wasn't called :angry:

)

I don't think Ayala looked to bad there.

Doesn't look like selling Keane was too much of a mistake, did we also have sell-on clauses for Crouchie or did we forfeit that to knock down the price of Johnson?

was Riera injured? really wish we could have played him or Yossi or both from the start

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:24 pm**

s@int wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
s@int wrote:
Love how whenever you mention something valid in hindsight after a result like today, then you're looking through "rose tinted specs" bollox comes out. Balls.

For a start, who could he have picked? Alonso handed in his f*cking transfere request. He wanted to split, so that left Lucas or Spearing. Take your pick.

Riera was the only other viable option in place of Babel. Now, judging from Babel's roasting of Johnson mid-week there, it's no surprise that he got the nod, or maybe it was just a simple case of Riera not being match fit or a slight injury problem? Again, this is the side that battered United at OT, and beat Chelsea at home comfortably last year. Didn't heard droans of "duff team selection" then. Short memories and all that.

To be fair Rafa could have bought a player who was actually fit ?

It is a slight hinderance but otherwise he would have cost a lot more. If Villa was out for the same period and we signed him would you be saying the same thing?

The problem is that we have not built up more strength in depth. We have basically just improved our 1st team of which a key player is currently injured. We have not improved the quality of our bench which is the real issue.

If the problem with Lucas is as bad as some on here are saying mate, we could be out of contention by the time Aquilani is fit?

I thought Lucas had a solid game today actually, but thats probably just me.

Its an enormous gamble signing a player who will miss the first couple of months of the season. I just hope it doesn't blow up in our faces

I thought Lucas looked better but that really wouldn't be hard. The main trouble I don't think any of his passes are creative or over 10 yards? BUT HE DOES LOOK BETTER AND AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM AND ENCOURAGE HIM! He can get a lot better!

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:26 pm**

Poor performance today and IMO this was due to our poor fitness levels. Spurs looked like they were a week to two ahead of us in preparation for some reason which was worrying. Thought Johnson had a decent debut,Torres/Gerrard clearly lacked fitness, don't know what Carragher was playing at when he clattered into Skrtel. I've never been a fan of Lucus, don't think he has the neccessary quality especially for the first team. Mascherano did a decent job although thought Palacios for them ws bossing things a bit too much in there. Babel was just there making up the numbers, Kuyt usually good work rate, Insua did a good job. All in all very dissapointing and I'll sa it again, we need to be winning games like these.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:26 pm**

s@int wrote:I thought Lucas had a solid game today actually, but thats probably just me.

No, Saint, you're not alone: I thought the same. Nothing he did was notably brilliant but I actually thought he played a more disciplined game than Mascherano and made some vital tackles (the one on Lennon midway through the 2nd half especially). With that said, I don't disagree with those who feel that we look a little blunt on creativity in the engine room with both Lucas and Masch partnered there. I think Spurs were right to stand off them a bit and cut down their passing options--a tactic other teams will surely copy if we line up this way again.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:27 pm**

bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:]
I'll speculate then that we have only an 18 year old as cover....

Owen was 17, Carra was 19 (I think) and Gerrard was 18 when they first got brought in. Age has f*ck all to do with it when judging a player. Experience? Erm, how does experience get aquired?

In fairness age has plenty to do with it when judging a player, particularly at centre half. There aren't many centre halfs in the World (if any infact) who are good enough to play for a top four Premiership team at 17, 18, 19 years of age.

I appreciate your desire to be positive and the like Emerald, but just occasionally in your efforts to throw a blanket over any dissenting voices you come out with something daft.

You need four credible centre halfs, as we're about to prove. Credible centre halfs in the Premiership aren't 17,18 and 19.[/quote]
Mick, it goes for any player, not just center backs. It's not like the kid is being picked as a first team player, is he? He's there for cover and there's only one way to become a "credible" centre-half as you put it and that's to get some match time and experience. What position you play in really doesn't matter.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:28 pm**

bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:]
I'll speculate then that we have only an 18 year old as cover....

Owen was 17, Carra was 19 (I think) and Gerrard was 18 when they first got brought in. Age has f*ck all to do with it when judging a player. Experience? Erm, how does experience get aquired?

In fairness age has plenty to do with it when judging a player, particularly at centre half. There aren't many centre halfs in the World (if any infact) who are good enough to play for a top four Premiership team at 17, 18, 19 years of age.

I appreciate your desire to be positive and the like Emerald, but just occasionally in your efforts to throw a blanket over any dissenting voices you come out with something daft.

You need four credible centre halfs, as we're about to prove. Credible centre halfs in the Premiership aren't 17,18 and 19.[/quote]
how many are you supposed to have? In a peferfect world SKrtel or Agger would be on the bench and Ayala or Kelly wouldn't be near the first team, and even if one of them was out, ok no biggie, you don't expect your two CBs to go running into each other like Rams.

However, if you want to argue (and I think you do) that in fact we do not need a 4th choice, but in fact a 1st choice CB that is a different story, and i might agree.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:29 pm**

bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:]
I'll speculate then that we have only an 18 year old as cover....

Owen was 17, Carra was 19 (I think) and Gerrard was 18 when they first got brought in. Age has f*ck all to do with it when judging a player. Experience? Erm, how does experience get aquired?

In fairness age has plenty to do with it when judging a player, particularly at centre half. There aren't many centre halfs in the World (if any infact) who are good enough to play for a top four Premiership team at 17, 18, 19 years of age.

I appreciate your desire to be positive and the like Emerald, but just occasionally in your efforts to throw a blanket over any dissenting voices you come out with something daft.

You need four credible centre halfs, as we're about to prove. Credible centre halfs in the Premiership aren't 17,18 and 19.[/quote]
I know it's only a few examples but Tony Adams was 17 when he captained Arsenal. And Alessandro Nesta was the same age when he broke into the Lazio first team. Cannavarro was 19 when he broke into the Napoli first team.

It is possible to be that age and play in a top team but you obviously need to be surrounded by some more experienced players too.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:31 pm**

bunglemark2 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:We don't have enough cover at the back and the manager - as would be expected of him - HAS to put it to the owners to stump up the cash for cover. He didn't and we suffered today.

He didn't? And we know this how? Come on, mate. There's fair criticism (selecting Babel ahead of Benayoun today) and then there's baseless speculation. We're all frustrated with the 'performance' today but let's not get carried away.

Here's what I base this on mate....

How many times this week and last have you read where RB has said "We have no money to spend...". Know what that looks like to me ? Looks like he's airing his dirty linen in public again. Looks like he's having a spat with the owners again.
Know what I think he should have done instead ? Got a blank sheet of paper out and did a little maths: What we recouped from sales this summer vs. what we invested in players (all NET figures, mind....factoring in the actual cash spent on Johnson, netting off what we were owed for Crouch...).
And THEN said to the owners in private : we are in trouble at the back....and put it right.

Completely. Baseless. Speculation.

I'll speculate then that we have only an 18 year old as cover....

Owen was 17, Carra was 19 (I think) and Gerrard was 18 when they first got brought in. Age has f*ck all to do with it when judging a player. Experience? Erm, how does experience get aquired?

Experience is acquired playing 1st team football matches, mate, so I think we agree on that. It does not, however, necessarily have to be on Day 1 of a season when many are predicting - and expecting - you to push for the title (and dare I say win it ?)
There is plenty of scope and opportunity for 1st team experience when you're playing in the Carling Cup, useless FA Cup, or whatever game you're batin' the bejaysus out of some poor unfortunates like Wolves.....
Not on Day 1 however, and not as I say, when you're supposedly in a title winning season away from home...
No need to remind anyone here, but it's a very very long time since we won this damn title, and I don't agree with experimenting with untested youngsters at this level...

Well Agger is injured, and Skrt and Carra did their best to wipe each other out today. We're fortunate enough to actually have an 18 year old as cover. Last season we played Masherano at RB and Chelsea made do with Essien at CB, yet we and they both managed. It's not a huge of a problem as people are making out.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:31 pm**

We need to get Gerrard back in midfield at least until Aquilani is back because there was no presence there what so ever until Benaayoun come on and Gerrard dropped back.I am quite worried about our strength in depth you only have to look at Spurs bench to ours and there is also Man City.F*ck it shouldn't of been Arsenal who they say couild be dropping out the top 4 it could be us with a few injuries

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:31 pm**

bavlondon wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:]
I'll speculate then that we have only an 18 year old as cover....

Owen was 17, Carra was 19 (I think) and Gerrard was 18 when they first got brought in. Age has f*ck all to do with it when judging a player. Experience? Erm, how does experience get aquired?

In fairness age has plenty to do with it when judging a player, particularly at centre half. There aren't many centre halfs in the World (if any infact) who are good enough to play for a top four Premiership team at 17, 18, 19 years of age.

I appreciate your desire to be positive and the like Emerald, but just occasionally in your efforts to throw a blanket over any dissenting voices you come out with something daft.

You need four credible centre halfs, as we're about to prove. Credible centre halfs in the Premiership aren't 17,18 and 19.

I know it's only a few examples but Tony Adams was 17 when he captained Arsenal. And Alessandro Nesta was the same age when he broke into the Lazio first team. Cannavarro was 19 when he broke into the Napoli first team.

It is possible to be that age and play in a top team but you obviously need to be surrounded by some more experienced players too.[/quote]
You're forgetting Maldini too.

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:33 pm**

Posted: **Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:33 pm**

JoeTerp wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:]
I'll speculate then that we have only an 18 year old as cover....

Owen was 17, Carra was 19 (I think) and Gerrard was 18 when they first got brought in. Age has f*ck all to do with it when judging a player. Experience? Erm, how does experience get aquired?

In fairness age has plenty to do with it when judging a player, particularly at centre half. There aren't many centre halfs in the World (if any infact) who are good enough to play for a top four Premiership team at 17, 18, 19 years of age.

I appreciate your desire to be positive and the like Emerald, but just occasionally in your efforts to throw a blanket over any dissenting voices you come out with something daft.

You need four credible centre halfs, as we're about to prove. Credible centre halfs in the Premiership aren't 17,18 and 19.

how many are you supposed to have? In a peferfect world SKrtel or Agger would be on the bench and Ayala or Kelly wouldn't be near the first team, and even if one of them was out, ok no biggie, you don't expect your two CBs to go running into each other like Rams.

However, if you want to argue (and I think you do) that in fact we do not need a 4th choice, but in fact a 1st choice CB that is a different story, and i might agree.[/quote]
Chelsea won the league twice with three centre backs. End of.

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