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Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:24 amby JC_81
metalhead wrote:john craig wrote:HacksawJimDuggin wrote:I am pleased that he didn't have a great world cup. From what I have heard in Holland he is head and shoulders above anything else in that league. Yes the standard is nowhere near that of the Premiership but give the boy a chance!! He is young and with a little work he could make in the premiership I think.
If the fee being talked about was 2 or 3 million I'd probably agree with you, but 10 million? I just don't see that guy being worth anywhere near that and it's a big risk imo.
It's ok making excuses for him and saying 'he's only young', 'it was the heat affecting his performances' or 'it's the system Holland play'. Bottom line is he has been playing top flight football in Holland for a number of years now (he's not that inexperienced), the heat is the same for every player on the field and despite the system he was surrounded by quality players in that Dutch team, yet he failed to impress and has so far only looked good in a poor league.
True John, but whats interesting is that in the last 10 years most dutch players coming from the dutch league impress and adapt really well in the Premier League, for example RVN, Robben, Boateng (sorry if spelled it wrong and he did really well with Coventry before joining Boro), Robin Van Persie, Jap Stam (with mancs he was very good), etc...
Given that The dutch league isn't much better than the Premier League, I think Kuyt can adapt in the premier league because he has the physical presence needed.
Yes he was falling alot on the floor yesterday becaue he is a dutch 
but this will change, i hope, if we get him.
I hear what you're saying metalhead, but I don't necessarily agree with it. I wouldn't say most Dutch players are a success in the premiership as there have been just as many that have turned out to be flops or pretty average as there are that have turned out to be good.
Kluivert, Bogarde, Reiziger, De Goey, Westerveld and to an extent Davids have not impressed me in the Premiership despite being good elsewhere. Nationality has nothing to do with it and just because Kuyt is Dutch doesn't mean he has a better chance of adapting to and being a success in the Premiership.
You also mention Kuyt's 'physical presence' and certain others on the forum have mentioned it too. What physical presence? The guy hasn't got much height, doesn't look particularly well built and goes to ground every time an opposing defender comes near him - I just don't see this guy cutting it in England. If we sign him and he proves me wrong I'll be happy, but I honestly can't see it.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:26 amby 2520years
XSD wrote:I can't believe no one here has learned their lesson about judging players on world cups. If we signed him before the tournament everyone would have been over the moon.
That's a good point.
If we judged players on the World Cup alone we wouldn't rate L'ard, Gerrard, Owen, Carra etc., but we all know they can play better over the course of a Premiership season. On the other hand, we've not got a great success rate buying players who look good in major tournaments, e.g. Diouf, Diao, Babb etc.
Many players show different form for club and country.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:35 amby LiverpoolMadman
If we judged players on the World Cup alone we wouldn't rate
So boss (you) .... should we buy kuyt or "scrap" the idea ??
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:35 amby JC_81
2520years wrote:XSD wrote:I can't believe no one here has learned their lesson about judging players on world cups. If we signed him before the tournament everyone would have been over the moon.
That's a good point.
If we judged players on the World Cup alone we wouldn't rate L'ard, Gerrard, Owen, Carra etc., but we all know they can play better over the course of a Premiership season. On the other hand, we've not got a great success rate buying players who look good in major tournaments, e.g. Diouf, Diao, Babb etc.
Many players show different form for club and country.
In the 'I just saw Dirk Kuyt play' thread which was started by Lando I think a few months back, pretty much anyone who had seen the lad play at that point said he wasn't worth 10 million by the looks of it, but that they'd reserve judgement until they'd seen him play more. We've now seen him play a bit more and nothing has changed.
The people on the forum who would have been 'made up if we'd signed him before the world cup' obviously don't have a clue because no doubt they'd believed the hype about him without seeing him play.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:39 amby 2520years
john craig wrote:2520years wrote:XSD wrote:I can't believe no one here has learned their lesson about judging players on world cups. If we signed him before the tournament everyone would have been over the moon.
That's a good point.
If we judged players on the World Cup alone we wouldn't rate L'ard, Gerrard, Owen, Carra etc., but we all know they can play better over the course of a Premiership season. On the other hand, we've not got a great success rate buying players who look good in major tournaments, e.g. Diouf, Diao, Babb etc.
Many players show different form for club and country.
In the 'I just saw Dirk Kuyt play' thread which was started by Lando I think a few months back, pretty much anyone who had seen the lad play at that point said he wasn't worth 10 million by the looks of it, but that they'd reserve judgement until they'd seen him play more. We've now seen him play a bit more and nothing has changed.
The people on the forum who would have been 'made up if we'd signed him before the world cup' obviously don't have a clue because no doubt they'd believed the hype about him without seeing him play.
I'll happily take your word for that because I haven't seen him play for his club.
I do hope, though, that Rafa won't do a Houllier and sign players because they've had a good World Cup. I've a feeling he's far too astute to do that.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:42 amby JC_81
Think you're right enough there 2520years, Benitez will have outlined his targets before the world cup got underway, I doubt he'll have identified any new targets purely based on performances at the world cup, he's far too thorough for that by the sounds of it.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:05 pmby Good 'God' Growler
If its a done deal thats great news! His addition would give a nice balance to our strike force. He looked ok against portugal - and he was in from the start instead of horseface. However, if the deal is scuppered by the toon I'd like to know where they get all their money from considerin they have never won anything and are never in the champs league - which is supposed to be where the lucrative income is generated 
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:08 pmby Igor Zidane
I haven't said in any of the threads on Kuyt that we should or shouldn't sign him as i've never seen him play.
All i can say on having seen him a couple of times in the world cup , is that i wasn't impressed at all with his control ,his positional play or his temprement in front of goal.
Now granted it's only a couple of games, but for a guy who's supposedly putting himself in the shop window , he wasn't at all impressive.
He would make an outstanding spring board diver tho.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:38 pmby clik
metalhead wrote:clik wrote:matrix wrote:£10m Kuyt deal to go ahead
By Al Campbell Tuesday 20th June 2006
Liverpool will have a £10m bid for Dirk Kuyt accepted this summer.
Feyenoord have reluctantly accepted a £10m bid for Dirk Kuyt from the Reds. The transfer will be completed once Holland are out of the World Cup. The Dutch have already qualified for round two so Kuyt's move to Liverpool is at least a week away.
found this online somewhere thought i would paste it...hope its true
the site was lfc online...
Is Dirk Kuyt really good enough to be a success? Kezman scored goals in Holland
Kezmen is Serbian 
and not strong
yes Kezman was Serbian, but for 10m Rafa could sign we could do better than to sign Kuyt. i hope im wrong if he signs which is not confirmed
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:44 pmby stmichael
At the end of the day, any new signing is a risk in itself. I just think that Kuyt has got a rough deal as well as RVN. He was asked to play out of position most of the world cup and then when he finally got a chance upfront he was living on scraps due to Van Persie and Robben both shooting or trying to run the ball into the net.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:53 pmby 7_Kewell
redsince2001 wrote:I was going on u ppl's word that kuyt was this great striker fit ftor the EPL
But After wat i saw of him last nite.........kuyt is a DEFINATE no no for me.....he's slow,he dives,and most importantly he's not a good finisher....and thus no NOT for us........got Newcastle written all over him 
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:54 pmby metalhead
john craig wrote:metalhead wrote:john craig wrote:HacksawJimDuggin wrote:I am pleased that he didn't have a great world cup. From what I have heard in Holland he is head and shoulders above anything else in that league. Yes the standard is nowhere near that of the Premiership but give the boy a chance!! He is young and with a little work he could make in the premiership I think.
If the fee being talked about was 2 or 3 million I'd probably agree with you, but 10 million? I just don't see that guy being worth anywhere near that and it's a big risk imo.
It's ok making excuses for him and saying 'he's only young', 'it was the heat affecting his performances' or 'it's the system Holland play'. Bottom line is he has been playing top flight football in Holland for a number of years now (he's not that inexperienced), the heat is the same for every player on the field and despite the system he was surrounded by quality players in that Dutch team, yet he failed to impress and has so far only looked good in a poor league.
True John, but whats interesting is that in the last 10 years most dutch players coming from the dutch league impress and adapt really well in the Premier League, for example RVN, Robben, Boateng (sorry if spelled it wrong and he did really well with Coventry before joining Boro), Robin Van Persie, Jap Stam (with mancs he was very good), etc...
Given that The dutch league isn't much better than the Premier League, I think Kuyt can adapt in the premier league because he has the physical presence needed.
Yes he was falling alot on the floor yesterday becaue he is a dutch
but this will change, i hope, if we get him.
I hear what you're saying metalhead, but I don't necessarily agree with it. I wouldn't say most Dutch players are a success in the premiership as there have been just as many that have turned out to be flops or pretty average as there are that have turned out to be good.
Kluivert, Bogarde, Reiziger, De Goey, Westerveld and to an extent Davids have not impressed me in the Premiership despite being good elsewhere. Nationality has nothing to do with it and just because Kuyt is Dutch doesn't mean he has a better chance of adapting to and being a success in the Premiership.
You also mention Kuyt's 'physical presence' and certain others on the forum have mentioned it too. What physical presence? The guy hasn't got much height, doesn't look particularly well built and goes to ground every time an opposing defender comes near him - I just don't see this guy cutting it in England. If we sign him and he proves me wrong I'll be happy, but I honestly can't see it.
I'm not just stressing that he is dutch, im trying to compare him to other dutch players who weren't flops in the premiership, and giving the lad a chance to prove himself.
I agree with you with some dutch players who became flops coming from the dutch league.
Sure he doesn't have height, but he is physically built and fit. He has a huge amount of stamina and can give us some extra energy and workrate needed in our attack. In my opinion he is a good assist player and with a right partner next to him he can be very useful in giving passes and working hard in the field.
It is a huge risk paying 10m for him, I agree with all of you, but i will trust Rafa on this one, if he thinks he is good enough for Liverpool then I will back Kuyt IF he joins.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:20 pmby clik
10m is a huge risk we cant afford to pay out big money for some-one who is unproven at high level but in rafa we trust. Long live king rafa
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:42 pmby Ace Ventura
I have only seen Kuyt play a couple of times and he does not look anywhere near the play he has been portryaed by the media and people on this forum.
I watched him against Argentina (admittedly he was played out of position) and he was poor, not the best technically, but gave his all.
I watched him again last night and he was worse, i am not sure what instructions Van Basten was giving him but he was meant to be the centre striker in the 3 man attack and he was never in right areas, if Robben and Van Persie had it out wide there was nobody in the centre, he didnt get involved enough and then missed a relatively easy chance when he scuffed a one on one right at the keeper.
Obviously i have only seen a bit of him, and surely he is better than what i have seen, but if i was to give an opinion now it would be a definate no to signing him, and at 10 million we would be getting ripped off big time.
All i can say is Van Nistelrooy must have done something majorly wrong in the dutch camp to not even get on the pitch, because that game was crying out for him.
Posted:
Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:51 pmby Red H
I agree with all that's been said, but does anyone know why he was picked ahead of RVN ?