Liverpool FC Forum

Posted: **Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:48 pm**

bigmick wrote:If we do lose to Lyon, presumeably we'll go into the UEFA Cup. Given the sense that we are out of the league and out of one of the domestic cups already, it's almost certain that we are going to take the competition very seriously indeed should we be in it. Funnily enough, with lots of European ties in both a league and two leg knockout format, the competition is in many respects made for Rafa and I've no doubt we'd go very well in it.

The unfortunate thing is with the competition that you have to play seemingly loads of matches to actually get anywhere, and when you do you normally play Seville or someone like that in the final. That's by no means an insurmountable hurdle in itself, but it does mean that the thing lacks the glamour of its big brother competition.

How do people rank the UEFA Cup or whatever it's called these days? I'd have it behind the FA Cup and League Cup to be honest, although I may modify that if we won it I suppose.

i'd perfer us to finish bottom of our CL group and not bother to be honest.

Posted: **Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 pm**

7_Kewell wrote:
bigmick wrote:If we do lose to Lyon, presumeably we'll go into the UEFA Cup. Given the sense that we are out of the league and out of one of the domestic cups already, it's almost certain that we are going to take the competition very seriously indeed should we be in it. Funnily enough, with lots of European ties in both a league and two leg knockout format, the competition is in many respects made for Rafa and I've no doubt we'd go very well in it.

The unfortunate thing is with the competition that you have to play seemingly loads of matches to actually get anywhere, and when you do you normally play Seville or someone like that in the final. That's by no means an insurmountable hurdle in itself, but it does mean that the thing lacks the glamour of its big brother competition.

How do people rank the UEFA Cup or whatever it's called these days? I'd have it behind the FA Cup and League Cup to be honest, although I may modify that if we won it I suppose.

i'd perfer us to finish bottom of our CL group and not bother to be honest.

Impossible though mate becasue we've got that rubbish team in our group who everyone is hammering (the ones we beat 1-0 at Home). We are absolute cast-iron certainties to finish in the top three in our group, and if the nightmare scenario occurs I cannot see the owners, or indeed Rafa for that matter not taking the UEFA Cup mega seriously.

Posted: **Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:06 pm**

JohnBull wrote:Raffa is the problem and he will never be part of the solution.
The man has experienced success with us but more by luck than good judgement and it must be obvious to any supporter than he is just not equipped for the Premiership.
There were players picked yesterday who will never be part of a successful future. Is there really NO reserve player who could have filled the role Voronin etc were supposed to have played ? Is our future going to rely on buying superstars ?
Raffa has, once again, thrown the premiership towel in and we are only a third of the way into the season. If he were to leave this minute it would not make the slightest difference to our trophy tally this season. There would not be a mass exodus of the two players who are of true quality. It would not cost us any more than leaving this under-achiever in charge till the sad unaviodable end to this season.
He has had the time, he has had the money, he has had the support of the fans to a large extent. Last season he had the best possible chance to catch this whale and he fluffed it. He has continually failed to produce the goods.
I really couldn't care less who replaces him. If they stuck Mrs Mop in as a caretaker she couldn't make a much worse job of running what is still one of the great sporting businesses in the world.

What a complete load of bollox.

Posted: **Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:09 pm**

heimdall wrote:
Reg wrote:It seems to me the fans are weaker than the manager.

First sign of disappointment and look how they bleat.

We should create a separate forum for mentally weak people so they can go there and cry together and have group hugs.

Fcuking wooftas, its pathetic.

Yeah Rafa's great isn't he, I love being an average team again, so much better than having ambitions in life, mediocrity is the way forward.

Do you ever do anything other than gurn about how sh*t Rafa is?

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:01 am**

heimdall wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:read a rumour in the newspaper that Real might make a move for Rafa again. Not sure how true it is, was in the Sunday Telegraph

They must be thinking about it they wanted him for years now and what better time to grab him for them a better chance might not happen for a long time.

If we loose to Lyon Rafa can kiss the Real job goodbye.

Lose to LYON An we might kiss a few whoppers goodbye an all :nod

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:24 am**

NANNY RED wrote:Lose to LYON An we might kiss a few whoppers goodbye an all

That would be the best thing to happen to the club as things stand at the momment :nod

I knew he had been told beat Lyon or your out the door.

Asked if he would reconsider his future after the Fulham game, Benítez replied: “My future is against Lyon.”

From the Times.

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:31 am**

NANNY RED wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
made in UK wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
Reg wrote:Ok Scott you could be right mate but sacking Rafa on november 1st does not solve the problem.

We need a business plan and game plan to see ourselves out of this mess.

Without a doubt, I'm not for one minute saying sack the manager, he still has my backing and getting rid of your manager mid-season is a desperate measure that comes from desperate chairman. And to be fair, I don't think that many on here want rid either, they're just frustrated.

I still can't get over that team we fielded yesterday though

In you're opinion then and from now until the end of the season what would Rafa have to do to keep him in the job?

Well i've pretty much backed Rafa from day one and I will continue to do so, so it is very difficult for me to say he must achieve this or that to keep his job. What Rafa does possess (and even his fiercest critics will concede this) is an uncanny ability to turn things around when the vultures are circling and the wheels seem to be falling off his team. Houllier built a team that progressed season on season but he couldn't get them over the hump, they started heading downhill and he could do nothing about it as they headed into free-fall. The same thing happened to the likes of Keegan and Bobby Robson at Newcastle. Even if we go out of Champions League at the group stages and never manage to pull ourselves back into the title hunt, I suspect that we will go on an FA Cup run + together with an impressive run in the league at some stage to ensure Champions League football for next season. And while that would not be enough for me (I expect us to challenge every season or at least to still be in with a shout as we head into April) I think it will be enough to ensure he gets another crack at the whip next season. Of course, if we fail to qualify for the Champions League, Rafa will be out on his ear, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if the owners got twitchy if it looked like we weren't going to make it with 6-8 games remaining.

In the past, quite a few posters have compared Rafa's rein to that of Houllier and claimed that Rafa has not really fared that much better than his predecessor but it's important (I think) to remember just how bad things got under Houllier (compared to now) during those last two seasons. The football was the worst I'd ever seen from a Liverpool side, we were absolutely clueless, the few top players we had wanted out, we had a squad full of expensive misfits and Anfield was like a library. Now it looks like we've well and truly screwed it all up for this season (we certainly will if we field half the team that played yesterday) BUT we've just come off the back of our most exciting league campaign in nearly two decades and i think that should probably buy the manager more time even if the best we do this season is to limp home in 4th place.

Sensible post that Scott mate

yea...agree with the post. Anyway, rafa should do something to get us out of this bad situations by offloading some of the deadwood in the squad this January. Sell babel, Dossena, etc, do whatever it takes to sell them and get a better replacements because we can't afford continuing using players who gives nothing to the team. i don't care what others might say but for me, putting a player like Babel in a starting 11 is just like starting a game with 10 men. get rid.

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:29 am**

s@int wrote:I don't think we have the finance to sack him, and I can't see him walking without a big payoff. So unless Madrid decide to come in for him (looking less likely by the game) I think he will stay until the summer.

Is that a good reason to stick with a manager? Hope that somehow this is a blip, that next season will improve? If the CL money is as much as is claimed then missing out on the CL could cost us more than sacking Rafa, I think it is something that HAS TO BE CONSIDERED even if it is not followed through. Losing to Chelsea is acceptable, but surely the manager can't be absolved of fault for losing games like Lyon and villa at home, Fulham and Sunderland away. They are four games that we should be winning, certainly not losing all of them. If we merrily write off games like Sunderland and Fulham away as excusable because player X, Y and Z were missing then prepare yourself for Europe League football.

While many may feel this is a 'one-off', 'in Rafa we trust' and all that, do people not fear that this side could be dismantled piece by piece? Alonso has gone, the first "big player" we've sold and our prospects of holding on to others may rest in the hands of the manager and what he can (or can't) do. If we don't qualify for the Champions League, not a worst case scenario but a quite possible eventuality, not only could that impact on players wanting to stay but also on players wanting to come here. That would make the "big payoff" seem like nothing, I'd rather spend £20m-£39m on getting the manager right than have him spend it on three players summer in, summer out without strengthening the squad ie the manager is often wasting it, surely what could prove 'wisely spent' might be worth it?!?!?

What people might find is new owners don't come and 'rescue' the club, I for one have no faith in Rafa's spending patterns and expect even if he had £100m to spend that we might well end up with a list of signings like Barry, Santa Cruz, Lescott etc for silly money. Rafa lets himself get mugged at the best of times, I mean who priced Johnson at £17.5m and wtf priced Keane at £20.3m!?!?!?!? Fair enough you probably can't do simple addition and say we could have spent 'that £38.8m' on Villa or Silva, but it seriously begs questions of the manager's transfer acumen. And sure other managers make mistakes with buys, but does their squad contain Lucas, Plessis, Voronin, Diego, Degen, Dossena, Babel, El Zhar and Kyrgiakos. That's nine signings of the 'nothing special' variety, I've not included the kids like Ayala, Spearing and Eccleston who've played in the Premiership for us, our manager opted to buy two players with 96% of our budget and left the squad so thin we had to play them.

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:39 pm**

I wish I was a gamboling man because I have all my work mates convinced I can see into the future. I have got every game right since the Hull Game bar 1. I thought The Mancs would win. So without calling for Rafa's head I predict he'll stay until we lose at least 3 more Premiership games which will be just before Xmas. Birmingham will be a draw, City will beat us, Everton may be the final straw thankfully they're in trouble too. Rafa won't care for the Europa league and we will struggle in Hungary anyway. Blackburn and Arsenal could go either way. I predict that Rafa will go and Kenny will act as caretaker manager until June.

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:33 pm**

big al wrote: I predict that Rafa will go and Kenny will act as caretaker manager until June.

...and win every league game from xmas to the end of the season resulting in us lifting the premier league trophy on the last day.

sweet.

fking bollox, but sweet.

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:34 pm**

Ciggy wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Lose to LYON An we might kiss a few whoppers goodbye an all

That would be the best thing to happen to the club as things stand at the momment

I knew he had been told beat Lyon or your out the door.

Asked if he would reconsider his future after the Fulham game, Benítez replied: “My future is against Lyon.”

From the Times.

That is a bit of a wierd response tbh. He should have just said no he just signed a new contract or something to that effect.

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:43 pm**

bavlondon wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Lose to LYON An we might kiss a few whoppers goodbye an all

That would be the best thing to happen to the club as things stand at the momment

I knew he had been told beat Lyon or your out the door.

Asked if he would reconsider his future after the Fulham game, Benítez replied: “My future is against Lyon.”

From the Times.

That is a bit of a wierd response tbh. He should have just said no he just signed a new contract or something to that effect.

Isn't that just a "concentrate on the next game" kind of comment?

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:46 pm**

Maybe but at the same time he wasn't completley ruling out any thoughts of madrid.... But to be honest he always speaks like that anyway so maybe it's my paranoia.

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:02 pm**

I think its admirable the level of loyality show by so may Liverpool fans. It has led me to ask those Beneitiz stalwarts what exactly would he have to do to get the boot. Where do Liverpool fans draw the line. Is it relagation. What about eigth with no trophies. I have not been one of those who want Rafa out because I'm not sure we can replace him with better. If I was certain that there was a better manager I would be the first to shout for Benitez to go. All due respect to some on here but Martin O'Neill (your having a laugh) Mourinho might be better but how do you know? Fergie is probably the only manager out there who could replace him. But Hey what to F**k do I know maybe we should let thse wonderful successes of management get a run, you know who I mean, The great Glenn Hoddle, or Rudd Gulitt, Graham Souness, F**king useless tos*ers. Ray Wilkinson's another must'nt forget those who have'nt got the bottle to try Jamie Rednapp, Andy Gray, Charlie Nicholas and Alan Smith. What A bunch of W*nk*rs. Sorry lost it there.

Seriously where do you personally draw the line.

Posted: **Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:08 pm**

Dazzer wrote:Ok well since my poll was shut down I expect this will too so I pass on voting.

Liverpool FC Forum

If we lose to lyon - Will rafa get the sack? (or resign)