Page 23 of 32
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:37 amby Ace Ventura
GYBS wrote:Mick - in some ways i agree with you about the standard of the prem being less at the moment as we dont have teams like the old chelsea and arsenal and man utd sweeping everyone away in front of them but could it not be the other way around thou where the top teams are just as good as before if not better but the reason why those top 4 arent sweeping all away in front of them is because other teams in the league have improved ? teams like villa have improved , the teams that have come up have found ways to be a bit more solid so the overall standard in the league has increased but the gap between the top teams and the others has closed due to the other teams increasing in standard as opposed to the top teams being worse ? just a thought ?
Villa have improved but arent any stronger than Spurs where a couple of seasons ago.
Everton where also stronger then i think than they are now.
Some teams have improved and obviously some have gone backwards that will always happen.
But as a whole i dont think the top sides are anywhere near as strong as they have been over the last 5 years or so, which is why the teams below are taking more points than usual off them.
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:40 amby bigmick
Ace Ventura wrote:Some teams have improved and obviously some have gone backwards that will always happen.
But as a whole i dont think the top sides are anywhere near as strong as they have been over the last 5 years or so, which is why the teams below are taking more points than usual off them.
Indeed Ace, it really is as simple as that.
Anyways, one thing we can surely all agree on is that it doesn't matter if you win it. When you enter the Premiership at the start of the season, your objective is not to be the all-time great Premiership winning team of the last 20 years, it's to get more points than anyone else this season.
If in doing so you lose six and draw ten, but still finish top who gives a feck?
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:40 amby GYBS
or as tommy said maybe a mix of both ?
and i wouldnt care one bit mick
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:42 amby Thewaykokid
Ace Ventura wrote:GYBS wrote:Mick - in some ways i agree with you about the standard of the prem being less at the moment as we dont have teams like the old chelsea and arsenal and man utd sweeping everyone away in front of them but could it not be the other way around thou where the top teams are just as good as before if not better but the reason why those top 4 arent sweeping all away in front of them is because other teams in the league have improved ? teams like villa have improved , the teams that have come up have found ways to be a bit more solid so the overall standard in the league has increased but the gap between the top teams and the others has closed due to the other teams increasing in standard as opposed to the top teams being worse ? just a thought ?
Villa have improved but arent any stronger than Spurs where a couple of seasons ago.
Everton where also stronger then i think than they are now.
Some teams have improved and obviously some have gone backwards that will always happen.
But as a whole i dont think the top sides are anywhere near as strong as they have been over the last 5 years or so, which is why the teams below are taking more points than usual off them.
Hmmmm i'm not sure about the weakest top sides ......i'd say if anything injury has taken more of an effect than the actual quality of the sides. Arsenal are without Walcott, Eduardo, Rosicky. We have no Torres, Aurelio, even Gerrard was out for a little bit. Mancs have just been all over the place, Ronaldo missed the start, Hargreaves....... 
, and a bunch of niggles and bumps all round. Deco was injured for chelsea, Drogba is still out (and i have always believed he was the key for chelsea), Joe cole was out, everywhere, someone is out.
So perhaps injuries have played their part, or even so, perhaps squads do not have as much depths as 5 years ago
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:44 amby bigmick
Anyway, we're top so who cares.
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:45 amby Sabre
I think people might secretly be a little concerned that if we win it, as the fella on RAWK said, the manager will get the "ah but it was only a weak Premiership anyway". That may or may not happen, but regardless, it is a weak Premiership anyway
About that concern, not that I'm concerned if someone will say the text in bold:
Weakness or strongness of the other teams didn't help one iota Rafa when he finnished fourth, weakness or strongness of other teams didn't stop some people from pointing out we were 9 points off the first position and from saying that is dissapointing. Weakness or strongness of other teams, didn't count so that people said "Rafa must challenge this season or be off".
So entering in the equation the weakness or strongness of other teams now we have more points than them and insisting on it, is quite strange, since that parameter didn't seem to matter in the past to say a season was dissapointing. 
It seems to me anyone saying that (which still hasn't happened) would be someone trying too hard to not giving Rafa the credit he'd deserve for winning the league.
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:47 amby account deleted by request
I also think the fact that the top clubs have all lost their best striker for considerable amounts of the season so far has been a big factor. Without Torres we were always likely to struggle for goals, the mancs lost Ronaldo for a while and Chelsea lost Drogba. In close games or games were the opposition park the bus infront of goal, its players like these that make or take the all important breakthrough goal.
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:49 amby Thewaykokid
s@int wrote:I also think the fact that the top clubs have all lost their best striker for considerable amounts of the season so far has been a big factor. Without Torres we were always likely to struggle for goals, the mancs lost Ronaldo for a while and Chelsea lost Drogba. In close games or games were the opposition park the bus infront of goal, its players like these that make or take the all important breakthrough goal.
argh i wish i had more credit here and people actually read my posts 
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:53 amby GYBS
yeah you did mention the injuries mate
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:53 amby Ace Ventura
Thewaykokid wrote:Ace Ventura wrote:GYBS wrote:Mick - in some ways i agree with you about the standard of the prem being less at the moment as we dont have teams like the old chelsea and arsenal and man utd sweeping everyone away in front of them but could it not be the other way around thou where the top teams are just as good as before if not better but the reason why those top 4 arent sweeping all away in front of them is because other teams in the league have improved ? teams like villa have improved , the teams that have come up have found ways to be a bit more solid so the overall standard in the league has increased but the gap between the top teams and the others has closed due to the other teams increasing in standard as opposed to the top teams being worse ? just a thought ?
Villa have improved but arent any stronger than Spurs where a couple of seasons ago.
Everton where also stronger then i think than they are now.
Some teams have improved and obviously some have gone backwards that will always happen.
But as a whole i dont think the top sides are anywhere near as strong as they have been over the last 5 years or so, which is why the teams below are taking more points than usual off them.
Hmmmm i'm not sure about the weakest top sides ......i'd say if anything injury has taken more of an effect than the actual quality of the sides. Arsenal are without Walcott, Eduardo, Rosicky. We have no Torres, Aurelio, even Gerrard was out for a little bit. Mancs have just been all over the place, Ronaldo missed the start, Hargreaves....... , and a bunch of niggles and bumps all round. Deco was injured for chelsea, Drogba is still out (and i have always believed he was the key for chelsea), Joe cole was out, everywhere, someone is out.
So perhaps injuries have played their part, or even so, perhaps squads do not have as much depths as 5 years ago
Which means they are weaker this season doesnt it ? (so far)
Not necessarily all season though and thats the worry.
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:54 amby account deleted by request
Thewaykokid wrote:s@int wrote:I also think the fact that the top clubs have all lost their best striker for considerable amounts of the season so far has been a big factor. Without Torres we were always likely to struggle for goals, the mancs lost Ronaldo for a while and Chelsea lost Drogba. In close games or games were the opposition park the bus infront of goal, its players like these that make or take the all important breakthrough goal.
argh i wish i had more credit here and people actually read my posts
Sorry mate, I have been a bit busy and in and out today, and missed your post. Needless to say I think you made a good point
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:54 amby Thewaykokid
GYBS wrote: yeah you did mention the injuries mate
lol it probably doesnt help that my avatar is a pic of Keane
HE'LL COME GOOD I SWEAR!
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:54 amby bigmick
Sabre wrote:I think people might secretly be a little concerned that if we win it, as the fella on RAWK said, the manager will get the "ah but it was only a weak Premiership anyway". That may or may not happen, but regardless, it is a weak Premiership anyway
About that concern, not that I'm concerned if someone will say the text in bold:
Weakness or strongness of the other teams didn't help one iota Rafa when he finnished fourth, weakness or strongness of other teams didn't stop some people from pointing out we were 9 points off the first position and from saying that is dissapointing. Weakness or strongness of other teams, didn't count so that people said "Rafa must challenge this season or be off".
So entering in the equation the weakness or strongness of other teams now we have more points of them and insisting on it, is quite strange, since that parameter didn't seem to matter in the past to say a season was dissapointing. It seems to me anyone saying that (which still hasn't happened) would be someone trying too hard to not giving Rafa the credit he'd deserve for winning the league.
I don't know if I've insisted on it Sabes to be honest I can't even remember how it first came up, but I mentioned it and it got hotly disputed so I explained why I thought it was so. As it is obvious now that it's turning into one of "those" issues, that's why I'm just agreeing to differ.
You're right in the bit about us being nine points behind and it not being allowed as a mitigating factor that there were good teams in the league (better teams than there are currently). That is precisely why I've said all along since this little sub-debate got going, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to the amount of credit a team and manager deserve for winning it. You can only beat what's there, and Champions is Champions.
The bold highlighted bit is lifted from that tool piece's post off RAWK. It's superfans like him which do my brain in to be honest, which is why I quoted the line.
Anyway, as I've said from the start it really doesn't matter. If people want to insist that it's a strong Premiership this year, then lovely.
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:55 amby GYBS
it is a god point - would of been interesting to see if we had them all fit - but then ronaldo has been back for man utd for a while now and drogba they just dont seem to play .
Posted:
Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:56 amby Thewaykokid
