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Posted:
Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:31 pmby Ace Ventura
Great post Sabre 
Both players qualities and minor faults summed up perfectly imo.
Posted:
Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:30 pmby Sabre
Both players qualities and minor faults summed up perfectly imo.
Nah, that was rough material, BB or BM or someone else will polish it up - it's difficult to say what you think of a player when you don't know the direct footy Spanish words of dozens of concepts in english 
I don't think I was accurate when I said Alonso hasn't first touch, he oftens hits it as it comes, but he needs more "space" to work than Gerrard, Gerrard can do a final pass in first touch in smaller spaces, he has that "quickness of thought". His dribbling abilities, strenght, and this "first touch in small areas", makes him an excellent attacking midfielder, Alonso couldn't do that.
Posted:
Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:19 pmby kunilson
Read the posts, agree with parts from most..
aside from the gerrard vs alonso stuff goin on, i think that gerrard's role on the right/left isn't taking too much away from his game, because he is still allowed freedom. I can only see negatives for him, having to involve himself in the game more by covering more ground coming in from the right and such...but if he hasn't a problem with it, and the team can obviously accomodate him (and why wouldn't they?) i don't see too much of a problem with it.....although i would like him in the middle.
The wingers would have to be sacrificed for him, but im sure they are aware of Rafa's policies.
Reminds me of Carragher having to play RB all those years, but when he moved in the middle we saw and are still seeing the best of him.....i hope Rafa doesn't regret shifting Gerrard around like this in the future..but like someone said, as long as Liverpool are winning who cares
Posted:
Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:02 pmby CardinalRed
Rafa is 100% right when he says the Team has to take priority, however much we love Stevie, he himself knows it's LFC that counts most.... A consistent season will, I'm sure put Stevie in the mix for the Ballon D'or... Excuse my ignorance but is there another player in the world who can display the same versatility around the pitch??? I think not...
Posted:
Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:18 amby Lando_Griffin
Sabre wrote:Garymac, it's been a while!
So, I'll answer "Lando's 4"
He's a better midfielder than Xabi?
I cannot compare them, they're so different. As a defensive midfielder I'd put Xabi, as he reads better the game, and he has good positioning. As an attacking midfielder I'd put Gerrard. Gerrard is more complete than Xabi is, he probably would be better than ALonso in every position but the one that Alonso is currently in, and perhaps in the goalie position , as we Basques like to be goalies 
. Not every midfielder can play out wide as Gerrard can, that speaks well of how complete he is. He even could be a good striker.
Can he pass as well? No.
Xabi's long pass is better than Gerrards', you can ask Pennant or Riise which ball is easier to control. Gerrard though, has a great passing too and a better quick passing. He can be in the att midfielder position and make a quick combination at first touch. Xabi doesn't know doing that, he needs a couple of touches. Gerrard is a better dribbler, Alonso hardly dribbles. He skips most players by "cutting" (switching all his body towards another direction) but he hasn't the waist nor the legs to be a great dribbler.
Can he tackle as well?
No. Gerrard tackles better than Alonso, but Alonso is in the correct place to tackle always 
. In those balls that come from goal kick, I like the way Alonso jumps for the ball and heads it in the direction of another mate.
Does he have the same vision?
Gerrard has great vision, you cannot pass the ball accurately and at first touch making a goal pass to the striker if you haven't it. Xabi's vision is better as in he reads the game better, knows when it is appropiate to slow down or make a direct pass. Gerrard's hunger in the pitch sometimes makes him taking not the best decission.
So I cannot compare them. They're so different, and we're so lucky to have'em both.
More or less what I said mate.
People need to remember that a tackle doesn't mean a "sliding tackle".
It means "challenge".
How many times does Alonso lose a challenge, despite not going to ground?
Never. The opposition have to avoid him if they want to get forward.
Gerrard has the Hollywood tackle, but hardly ever takes the ball off a player without sliding in.
(And I have to point out that I said in the post quoted that Stevie is the better attacker, Xabi is the better defender.)
Regarding the passing issue raised by Woof, I think Gerrard himself admitted Alonso was the better passer of the two in Xabi's first season.
No matter how much you love Stevie, it will never change the fact that he makes some stupid decisions, and overcooks a lot of his through-balls.
I said it before and I'll say it again - to me, Alonso is the better all-round player.
Either way, and whichever side of the fence you find yourselves on - it's all good for LFC, which is all that matters.
Posted:
Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:45 amby account deleted by request
If you watched Gerrard against Newcastle you will have seen just why he is better off playing right midfield. Parker started the game well and if he had been supported better could have caused Liverpool a few problems. As soon as Gerrard started roaming forward Parker was forced to go back to help keep Gerrard quiet.
Yes Parker had a good game and kept Gerrard quiet most of the time but he did nothing else and was no longer a threat. Meanwhile Xabi was given time and space to dictate play, set up the first and score the second.
Gerrard still managed to create a few chances, even when marked by Parker and the fullback and had a reasonable game. When Gerrard plays right midfield it causes defences nightmares, if the full back follows Gerrard as he moves inside it leaves the wing wide open for Finnan to exploit. If the full back doesnt move with him Gerrard is able to run at the defence causing mayhem. Newcastle tried to stop Gerrard by dropping Parker back, but all that did was to give Xabi more time and space to exploit.
Posted:
Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:33 amby Espionage
It seems to be that when some people claim that Gerrard is getting frustrated, that its Rafa's fault. It definately is not! IF (hypothetically) he was getting pis$ed off with the situation the blame would be 100% on him!
I am a firm believer that if Gerrard did start b!tching about the system and complaining then Rafa would first try to talk him though it, but if that didnt work he would ship him off (Real/Barca/?) first chance he got. Rafa is in charge and it doesnt matter who Gerrard is, he has to respect that. He is our captain and our best player but no one is bigger then the club, and Rafa is in charge at the moment. Gerrard is a smart guy and seems perfectly happy to accept the circumstances. I think that he is actually happy! But its all speculation...........
Posted:
Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:21 pmby taff
Ciggy did ask for the thread to be deleted
Overreaction if you ask me. Gerrard is the best hustle and bustle midfielder in the world at this moment in time but is not quite cute enough to be totally the best, Alonso is a more intelligent player although if you were in a fight you'd want Gerrard. Now I think Rafa recognises this and is educating Gerrard to become a better player in the context of the team.
SG seems really content at the club and has the air of a man who is happy and learning all the time. We know from the past that he tends to speak his mind regardless of who it might upset so why cant we just believe him
Posted:
Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:45 pmby Bad Bob
s@int wrote:If you watched Gerrard against Newcastle you will have seen just why he is better off playing right midfield. Parker started the game well and if he had been supported better could have caused Liverpool a few problems. As soon as Gerrard started roaming forward Parker was forced to go back to help keep Gerrard quiet.
Yes Parker had a good game and kept Gerrard quiet most of the time but he did nothing else and was no longer a threat. Meanwhile Xabi was given time and space to dictate play, set up the first and score the second.
Gerrard still managed to create a few chances, even when marked by Parker and the fullback and had a reasonable game. When Gerrard plays right midfield it causes defences nightmares, if the full back follows Gerrard as he moves inside it leaves the wing wide open for Finnan to exploit. If the full back doesnt move with him Gerrard is able to run at the defence causing mayhem. Newcastle tried to stop Gerrard by dropping Parker back, but all that did was to give Xabi more time and space to exploit.
Spot on, mate...good analysis!
On the Gerrard v Alonso stuff, I think Lando's last line says it all: no matter who's more your cup of tea we all can clearly agree that having both is great for Liverpool FC. Sometimes it just comes down to personality: I'm a huge Alonso fan because I appreciate subtleties and intelligent play a lot and because I'd like to think I play a little like him during kick-abouts. Others will rate Gerrard because they love the blood and thunder stuff. As they say in French (or so we were taught in school) "chacun son gout"!
Posted:
Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:37 pmby Garymac
Espionage wrote:It seems to be that when some people claim that Gerrard is getting frustrated, that its Rafa's fault. It definately is not! IF (hypothetically) he was getting pis$ed off with the situation the blame would be 100% on him!
I am a firm believer that if Gerrard did start b!tching about the system and complaining then Rafa would first try to talk him though it, but if that didnt work he would ship him off (Real/Barca/?) first chance he got. Rafa is in charge and it doesnt matter who Gerrard is, he has to respect that. He is our captain and our best player but no one is bigger then the club, and Rafa is in charge at the moment. Gerrard is a smart guy and seems perfectly happy to accept the circumstances. I think that he is actually happy! But its all speculation...........
Load of sh!te, you telling me someone cant be unhappy playing out of position, i take it you have never played football in your life then, i dont like playing out of position, happy to do a job there but everyone prefers there natural role, which is probably how gerrard feels now.
Put it this way, if we had played him center mid in all are games this season, in my opinion, we would have had a better start to the season than we have.
Posted:
Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:51 amby Espionage
Garymac wrote:Espionage wrote:It seems to be that when some people claim that Gerrard is getting frustrated, that its Rafa's fault. It definately is not! IF (hypothetically) he was getting pis$ed off with the situation the blame would be 100% on him!
I am a firm believer that if Gerrard did start b!tching about the system and complaining then Rafa would first try to talk him though it, but if that didnt work he would ship him off (Real/Barca/?) first chance he got. Rafa is in charge and it doesnt matter who Gerrard is, he has to respect that. He is our captain and our best player but no one is bigger then the club, and Rafa is in charge at the moment. Gerrard is a smart guy and seems perfectly happy to accept the circumstances. I think that he is actually happy! But its all speculation...........
Load of sh!te, you telling me someone cant be unhappy playing out of position, i take it you have never played football in your life then, i dont like playing out of position, happy to do a job there but everyone prefers there natural role, which is probably how gerrard feels now.
Agreed, but this will not happen if you respect your manager and the decisions he makes. Rafa is a good manager and therefore Gerrard will never be put into a situation where he could be upset about being played out of position.
But I do not agree with you that Gerrard is not happy filling in on the right. I think that he wants to do well, and last season he played great on the right.
I said from the start that this is all speculation so dont start the old "i think Gerrard thinks....." arguement. None of us know, so whats the point of argueing.
Posted:
Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:19 amby drummerphil
personally Rafa has been at the club long enough for any one player to dictate to him(gerrard included).We all said Nando was a favourite with the boss and we have been proven wrong.Quite simply do as Rafa wants or face moving on.I think stevie now realises this.One player will never be bigger than the club.Stevie should concentrate on his game and start making the right noises again.
Posted:
Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:41 amby Espionage
drummerphil wrote:personally Rafa has been at the club long enough for any one player to dictate to him(gerrard included).We all said Nando was a favourite with the boss and we have been proven wrong.Quite simply do as Rafa wants or face moving on.I think stevie now realises this.One player will never be bigger than the club.Stevie should concentrate on his game and start making the right noises again.
I think that he is, people seem to forget that Gerrard said this: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news....259.htm