Posted:
Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:33 pm
by bunglemark2
Can't help but wonder out loud that this is a very deep and profound thread, Mick..
What gets me is the occasional vitriol and abuse hurled by one person at another - why ? I don't know anybody on this forum. As a very infrequent visitor to Anfield, it's probably never going to come to pass that I'll meet you face-to-face anyway. But even if that is the case, what's to be gained from calling you every name under the sun ?
I think most people are as disillusioned and disappointed right now, with something that seemed almost close enough to touch has been undone, the reasons many. Some are blaming the manager, perhaps unfairly, though personally I just don't get the man's logic, and I feel he certainly has a whole pile to answer for. But those who cast aspersions on the man, call hime every name under the sun, and call his "backers" every name under the sun....nah, I'll give that a miss
Posted:
Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:49 pm
by tonyeh
People mouth off insults, because the don't have an intelligent reply to offer for an argument they don't like/want to hear.
It's that simple.
You only have to look at some of the replies on here by some people to see that they just do not have a reasoned response for their position formed in their head.
Posted:
Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:56 pm
by Sabre
Interesting thread this. The topic of discussion is why people like me are angry. Perhaps after some rants and a few Owzat stats I'll know why I'm angry.
So we have just started the psychology thread, and we already have two mistakes, one, not asking the angry guys directly. Second, suggest that people get angry because a poster loses faith in the manager or disagrees.
Here's a scenario that may help to this deep psychology thread provided you grasp a remote concept of empathy.
Imagine the typical situation of Liverpool on top of the table, and an "anti" moaning because we won 1-0 instead of 3-0 and we changed 3 players to win the match. Ok, the "anti" will get abuse, but it's easier to get called cluéless and a twát, when you look at the table and see your club in first position. And thus, it's easier to keep calm. It's a hell of good consolation to see your club on top of the table.
Now imagine this situation, you dream of the league, you hate the mancs, you love Liverpool, and you see the archrival overtaking you and getting 7 points away. Then you come here, angry as fúck because of that, and all you see are insults to the manager and the team, and to top it off, you see someone noting the pros are missing and assuming their reasons to be missing and giving credit to those who are posting with a sarcasm touch here and there.
The situation is different. Because, when you look at the table you don't have the big consolation. I can assure you that if I look at the table, I see Liverpool on top, and I have 13 antis with Mick leading the march calling me clueless, I would be laughing. It's not who disagrees you and how, it's the situation of the team, and occasional lack of respect to the manager with insults.
Now of course, you can debate why people like me are angry. You could even wield your English with more or less dexterity to suggest with a periphrasis or a roundabout expression that the pros are people who do not take disagreements with the same good will as the antis -- of course you don't pretend that, you genuinelly are interested on why the people are angry, of course, of course-- . It could even take 6 pages the discussion.
But the answer is much more human and simple than the one you suggest. The truth is that it's actually much more easier to banter and accept the taking of píss when your team is well than where they're struggling. I can't believe you had never thought of that, but here you go.
So, in a nutshell, if you want to know why the people are angry, ask them.
If you think that the people are angry because people lose faith in the manager, get your facts right, you're not the only one to have lost a good amount of faith in the manager (i.e. Bad Bob, Connovar, Mistyred, Cool Hand Luke, Ciggy sometimes, Stu, Effes, Ace Ventura, the list is long). In that particular case of the other thread, I answered because I didn't like you assumed why the pros were not posting, not because you have lost faith in the manager, which in your case was lost long ago I'd say.
I've stated a lot of times the respect I have towards your posts and that's something that hasn't changed. I'll even go as far as saying I like you and that's difficult to say in Newkit without being told to get a room. But FFS Mick, surely you can understand that when the team are struggling people will be more sensitive to bantering? What's the english expression to say "The oven isn't for cakes this morning"? Surely you're on a better mood when the team win? Not talking about superfans here,but talking about very common and human reactions to club football.
If I had a go with everyone who had lost faith on the manager in the last 3 years, I'd have been banned several times already. No, that's not the problem, and no, I don't have my crosshair on you, you just assumed in the other thread why people like me were not posting, I'm angry as fúck due to the misfortunes of the club, and I'm simply more sensitive because of that.
It's dead simple really.
P.S. Forget this post, Tonieh's intelligent post is on the money. The thread was genuinelly intended to understand better why the pros are angry, a clever guy like Tonieh did get the point of the thread quickly, and he's got spot on. The pros are not clever enough.
Ah well.
Posted:
Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:03 pm
by redhayesy
stay, & prove the doubters wrong!!
Posted:
Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:04 pm
by heimdall
The more untenable Rafa's position becomes the more the Rafalites tend towards abuse rather than even trying to concoct any coherent reasons for him remaining as manager. It is almost hilarious how they trot out the same tired arguments and scare tactics, it is actually getting a bit boring arguing with them, it's a bit like shooting fish in a barrel these days.
I have respect for posters like Sabre because he is a knowledgeable guy but his attitude lately has really sucked, personally I was really surprised and saddened when he was gloating about me getting banned. Many of the others who I argue.....err discuss with are completely ignorant and some are just plain vulgar, incapable of ever discussing football. That's not too say all the people on the anti side are good either but we are still in the minority, although I can sense a significant shift these last few weeks with even the staunchest pro rafalites starting to waver.
Posted:
Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:08 pm
by loopyliverpool
Im not into any slagging of anyone. As a lifelong fan I want us, more than anything, to be playing attractive football and challenging for the championship at the end of the season. When things are going wrong and we play unattractive football and don't look like challenging for the title again (nineteen years) you have to question things and as much as I like the man, you have to question Benitez. As far as I am aware he picks the team and recruits the players. I feel this blind faith in him is incredible. One of the things with football is you can draw your opinions from performances... yesterday's was typical: dull and functional.
Posted:
Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:12 pm
by loopyliverpool
Go, with a shake of the hand.