Page 15 of 19
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:43 pmby Sabre
numero uno 
Don't be too harsh on RichardLFC, he's been a good poster the time he's been here and he never tells other posters that their opinion is shíte. Plus, he's very young I think, and "pundits" and "football experts" that speak in TV and write about football have written and said things that do not vary much what he have said:
The one striker "error" has been pointed by many "pundits", and many have been saying Rafa got wrong things in the final, many "experts" have mentioned the negativity of that Rafa formations, and many people who're supposed to have seen lots of football were outraged because they saw Gerrard playing as a "second striker" (attacking mid for me). Also the Mascherano was glued to Kaka, or Kaka was in Mascherano's pocket has been repeated often.
So basically, what Richard has said is not new, I've read more opinions like that, so I don't think he deserves special stick. 
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:47 pmby destro
I was thinking the same Sabre....until i read some of his other posts. Ive never seen such negativity 
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:52 pmby account deleted by request
Gerrard playing as a "second striker" (attacking mid for me)
Theres no way Gerrard was playing attacking midfield against Milan. He wasn't dropping back, but was used to put pressure on the Milan defence etc when Liverpool lost the ball. He was playing off our striker when we had the ball not running from deeper.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:53 pmby Sabre
For me, the difference between Richard's and the pundits opinion is that Richard has the balls to say he wouldn't mind Rafa resigned.
The pundits instead give stick in every front of Rafa's decissions (line-ups, formations, will to win) but don't have the balls to say Rafa should be out, just in case someone points out later they're mad or stupid. Richard's opinion, is quite valiant in that sense.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:56 pmby LFC2007
Sabre,
Forming an opinion on where the UCL final was won and lost is acceptable, and we can all pontificate as to what would have won the game and where we went wrong. I don't have much of a problem with that, but this guy is taking it to the next level of naivity, and his reasoning is poor and not explained.
That, I don't have too much problem with.
This, I do have a problem with:
"Rafa isnt the tactical genius everyone thinks he is. He lost us the champions league final"
I seem to remember in 2005 when Rafa orchestrated the greatest Champions league victory of all time. With an incredibly depleted squad and no Owen because we were shafted. Sure, there's no tactical genius in that is there?
And yet this guy uses the symbol of that victory as his avatar, pot/kettle/black.
Not only that, but he accuses Rafa of being too "stubborn" in his efforts to sign Owen, if you can't match £16m and Owen chooses to go to Newcastle - what do you do?
Owen could have stuck it out at Madrid, as it happens, he thought his world cup chances would be hindered if he didn't move - which is absolute nonsense because Sven ended up picking Walcott for the squad!!!!!!
And this guy blames Rafa!
Sabre, I don't think Richard deserves special stick, he deserves extra special stick.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:56 pmby Sabre
s@int wrote:Gerrard playing as a "second striker" (attacking mid for me)
Theres no way Gerrard was playing attacking midfield against Milan. He wasn't dropping back, but was used to put pressure on the Milan defence etc when Liverpool lost the ball. He was playing off our striker when we had the ball not running from deeper.
I disagree this time, Gerrard was a key so that we were not outnumbered in the middle, and responsible alongide Alonso and Mascherano of doing so. He pressed the start of their play (second strikers also do that). Maybe it's a language issue, because Guillem Balague in a Spanish article he calls it attacking mid in Spanish, and in English I think he used second striker. But for me both roles have slight differences.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:04 pmby account deleted by request
As I have said before I think Rafa played Gerrard and Kuyt up front for a reason. Mainly to stop Milan stroking the the ball about with no pressure in their own half as they did against the Mancs. Pirlo because he plays deep was also pressurised, in just the same way that Alonso has been for Liverpool. Maybe its a language issue but for me Gerrard played most of the game as a second striker, which although not his best position, in terms of this particular game was both understandable and right.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:05 pmby RichardLFC1
LFC2007 wrote:Sabre,
Forming an opinion on where the UCL final was won and lost is acceptable, and we can all pontificate as to what would have won the game and where we went wrong. I don't have much of a problem with that, but this guy is taking it to the next level of naivity, and his reasoning is poor and not explained.
That, I don't have too much problem with.
This, I do have a problem with:
"Rafa isnt the tactical genius everyone thinks he is. He lost us the champions league final"
I seem to remember in 2005 when Rafa orchestrated the greatest Champions league victory of all time. With an incredibly depleted squad and no Owen because we were shafted. Sure, there's no tactical genius in that is there?
And yet this guy uses the symbol of that victory as his avatar, pot/kettle/black.
Not only that, but he accuses Rafa of being too "stubborn" in his efforts to sign Owen, if you can't match £16m and Owen chooses to go to Newcastle - what do you do?
Owen could have stuck it out at Madrid, as it happens, he thought his world cup chances would be hindered if he didn't move - which is absolute nonsense because Sven ended up picking Walcott for the squad!!!!!!
And this guy blames Rafa!
Sabre, I don't think Richard deserves special stick, he deserves extra special stick.
Right let me just make one thing clear and hopefully clear all this mess up. Rafa isnt a bad manager no and at times can be great and one of the best but at times i can find his descions to be unorthodox and a little questionable.
We all have our opinions and this is one of mine.
Another thing is earlier i was quoted saying about rafa losing us the cup and i will accept what ever stick comes to me as its something which i have said and wont back down from. But 1 person has said rafa didnt lose us the final the players did. And now you mate are saying that he won us the cup in 2005. If he takes responsibility for one then he must for the other.
And you say i deserve extra special stick for my opinions which is un called for. Its my opinion we all have them.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:11 pmby destro
They dont come out and say 'Rafa should be out 'because even though they dont always sound like it, they do know a bit about football and, i dont want to offend anyone, but only an idiot would say Rafa should go or words to that affect. After what he has achieved since he came here it should not even be up for debate ( yet ). People choose to look at tactics,formations transfers etc not to create a smokescreen but because IMO there is nothing else to look at.
At least give him a few years with a team that he has assembled and includes players he wants and not players he was forced to buy. The same people who question him now will disapear should he sign , Eto,Villa or some other superstar player, and then sadly re-apear if (god forbid) they turn out to be expensive wastes of money.
If he gets the money he has been promised AND the players he feels we need to take us to the next level, then we need to give him time with those players
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:11 pmby LFC2007
RichardLFC1 wrote:But 1 person has said rafa didnt lose us the final the players did. And now you mate are saying that he won us the cup in 2005. If he takes responsibility for one then he must for the other.
Please quote me on EXACTLY where I said Rafa won us the cup in 2005?
Please tell me?
I said:
"I seem to remember in 2005 when Rafa orchestrated the greatest Champions league victory of all time"
That is to say, his tactical nouse helped "orchestrate" the greatest win of all time.
If anything it s YOU who has just backtracked by going from " Rafa lost us the final" and he is "not the man for the job" to "he can be great".
You don't have a clue IMO, you are beyond reasoning.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:14 pmby RichardLFC1
LFC2007 wrote:RichardLFC1 wrote:But 1 person has said rafa didnt lose us the final the players did. And now you mate are saying that he won us the cup in 2005. If he takes responsibility for one then he must for the other.
Please quote me on EXACTLY where I said Rafa won us the cup in 2005?
Please tell me?
I said:
"I seem to remember in 2005 when Rafa orchestrated the greatest Champions league victory of all time"
That is to say, his tactical nouse helped "orchestrate" the greatest win of all time.
If anything it s YOU who has just backtracked by going from " Rafa lost us the final" and he is "not the man for the job" to "he can be great".
You don't have a clue IMO, you are beyond reasoning.
This is a Liverpool fc Forum where people should feel free to voice there opinions. You dont like what ive said then ok pull me up on it. But to say i dont have a clue and im beyhond reasoning is just being a plain 
.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:16 pmby Sabre
Beyond reasoning is the 
thread
You'll be speechless when you read the thread
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:21 pmby LFC2007
RichardLFC1 wrote:LFC2007 wrote:RichardLFC1 wrote:But 1 person has said rafa didnt lose us the final the players did. And now you mate are saying that he won us the cup in 2005. If he takes responsibility for one then he must for the other.
Please quote me on EXACTLY where I said Rafa won us the cup in 2005?
Please tell me?
I said:
"I seem to remember in 2005 when Rafa orchestrated the greatest Champions league victory of all time"
That is to say, his tactical nouse helped "orchestrate" the greatest win of all time.
If anything it s YOU who has just backtracked by going from " Rafa lost us the final" and he is "not the man for the job" to "he can be great".
You don't have a clue IMO, you are beyond reasoning.
This is a Liverpool fc Forum where people should feel free to voice there opinions. You dont like what ive said then ok pull me up on it. But to say i dont have a clue and im beyhond reasoning is just being a plain .
Of course people are free to voice their opinions, but your opinions lack any coherence in every way possible.
Examples: "Rafa is no tactical genius"
"He is not the man for the job"
"He lost us the final"
etc.............
Where is the cohesion and reasoning behind these?
Nowhere, it is one-dimensional rubbish.
IMO.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:23 pmby redtrader74
Come on Richard, the team controlled Milan, they were pretty much out of ideas. They scored a deflected goal after a dodgy FK. This was the same Milan we were all told was gonna kick our ars3. You said 'there was nothing wrong with the team on the day' so what was wrong? If the team selected was ok by you, then who were you going to play 2nd striker?
Why the fuck Should Rafa beg owen to come back, it is public knowledge now that LFC were willing to take him back, but that he had to hold tight and force Madrid to sell at 8-9m to us, and reject the magpies, he didin't and you blame Rafa? wake up
Owen left us, he wanted to go, he did not give Rafa a chance, he ran his contract down along with Parry and Houllier.
Fine if you don't want Rafa, but have a plausible reason, so far you have not given a factual reason, even if you have no reason and just don't rate him say so, but don't make up reasons.
Posted:
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:31 pmby RichardLFC1
redtrader74 wrote:Come on Richard, the team controlled Milan, they were pretty much out of ideas. They scored a deflected goal after a dodgy FK. This was the same Milan we were all told was gonna kick our ars3. You said 'there was nothing wrong with the team on the day' so what was wrong? If the team selected was ok by you, then who were you going to play 2nd striker?
What im saying is the players who were picked done their job but with one striker there was no way we was going to win.