Page 14 of 16
Posted:
Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:15 pmby Bad Bob
Stu.Murph wrote:My points simple, if West Ham go, why not get Ashton and Tevez in?
Call it £14m for Tevez and £7m for Ashton.
Alright, mate, I'm intrigued now. Let's go get Ashton and see how he does. I kind of want to see it happen now, since you've called him the next Shearer. If you're right, I'll happily say as much. BTW, I'm not being glib here...if you rate him, I'm genuinely intrigued.
BUT
I don't want us to sell Crouch this summer. Call it rose-tinted specs if you want but I have a soft spot for the lad. He's a lanky streak of p!sh that nobody rates...even people who conceed he's got skill. The number of sly jibes I hear from commentators every time he plays is bad enough but this board and other Liverpool sites are chock-a-block with Crouch-doubters and the fair few Crouch-haters. You know what, though, he's joined a big club and made an impact. He's scored some big, big goals for us, has worked hard each and every time he gets on the pitch, has taken the rotation system like a man, has taken all of the abuse he gets from players, fans and refs (esp. in Europe) in his stride and still gets his head down and gets on with it.
Is he World Class? Decidely not. Are there better strikers out there? Certainly. Has he earned his place in the squad, though? I think he has and I'm not ready to see him shipped out yet.
So, I'd be curious to see us bring Ashton in but not if it means Crouch has to go first.
Posted:
Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:15 pmby Stu.Murph
Bob, I like Ashton alot mate, but hes similar to Crouch. And a hell of a lot better. Thats why I don't think theres room for them both.
I don't rate Crouch mate any less than you probably do and I totally agree with what you say. But the fact is he's not good enough over 38 games. Due to a lack of ability. Whatever way you want to mask it... I'm not putting a spin on it, the fact is he's horribley limited and can often be marked out of games and have no effect at all as often happens against the better sides.
You need top players, not decent ones. Crouch is clearly a premier division footballer, but he's never a top player. Compare him to Saha mate and theres simply no comparrison. Ashton's as good as Saha, but different style.
I remember us having Fowler, Owen an on form Heskey and Litmanen to choose from and thinking it doesn't matter. They're all top players. Which they were, the ones we have now, aren't even fit to lace Heskey and Litmanen's boots. Let alone Owen and Fowlers. Heskey in the first season he signed for us shown what he was about, he just wasn't mentally up to being a great player, which is a massive shame.
Posted:
Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:33 pmby 66-1120597113
Ashton is not playing in a sh'it team for no reason! I dont mean sh'it i mean well LFC quality...
Stu thinks hes the dogs balls...The top 4 teams in England maybe Europe dont cause they would have signed him!
Wenger,Mourinhio,Ferguson and Senoir Benitez are all wrong...Stu is right?
I rest my case...id say hes probably great in a computer game!
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:06 amby 66-1112520797
Stu.Murph wrote:Bob, I like Ashton alot mate, but hes similar to Crouch. And a hell of a lot better. Thats why I don't think theres room for them both.
I don't rate Crouch mate any less than you probably do and I totally agree with what you say. But the fact is he's not good enough over 38 games. Due to a lack of ability. Whatever way you want to mask it... I'm not putting a spin on it, the fact is he's horribley limited and can often be marked out of games and have no effect at all as often happens against the better sides.
You need top players, not decent ones. Crouch is clearly a premier division footballer, but he's never a top player. Compare him to Saha mate and theres simply no comparrison. Ashton's as good as Saha, but different style.
I remember us having Fowler, Owen an on form Heskey and Litmanen to choose from and thinking it doesn't matter. They're all top players. Which they were, the ones we have now, aren't even fit to lace Heskey and Litmanen's boots. Let alone Owen and Fowlers. Heskey in the first season he signed for us shown what he was about, he just wasn't mentally up to being a great player, which is a massive shame.
I am a supporter of Crouch and like Bob said I wholeheartedly agree with. But to say he's not fit to lace Heskeys boot is just laughable.
Get a clue lad.
Also I'd prefer Crouch in my team to Louis Saha, is he now so highly rated because he plays for ManU. Nobody ever drew big comparisons like that when he was at Fulham.
But I tell you why I prefer Crouch over Saha, players like Saha are a dime a dozen. Cisse's, Anelkas, Owens, and your Henry's. A striker with pace who's finnishing abilty is a little better than Cisse's and that aint saying much.
Crouch is a totally different player alltogether and his own style is as rare as rocking horse s.hit in a striker. Not many defenders like playing up against him, he's awkward to play against. Unlike Heskey he has great technical ability and an eye for goal. You say he can be marked out of a game, I'll tell you what mate, most strikers can. Even your Michael Owens and Henry's.
I havent bothered watching Ashton that much so I cant comment. Isnt he injury prone though, if we were to go out and get another striker I'd like to think we could go a class above Ashton. If Ashton was that good wouldnt he of got an England cap by now ? Wouldnt of all the other top teams of come in for him, I dont know ? But what I do know is Crouch is a good player and he'd be the first striker I'd keep at the club out of all four. That might not sound like much, but I believe he's the most effective and most likely to score out of Kuyt, Bellamy and Fowler. Plus he's the best striker suited to Rafa's favoured 4-5-1 formaton out of our others who arent a patch on him in that formation and I doubt Ashton would be.
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:06 amby bigmick
My own take as I've said many times is that I prefer Crouch to Ashton. That said Bamaga, I'm gonna keep popping back to see how Stu reacts to your post. There were a couple of bits that made my eyebrows go up a bit. Crouch better than Saha? Saha a dime a dozen player?
BTW I totally agree with you about Heskey. He was absolute sh!te, end of!
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:26 amby 66-1112520797
Saha a dime a dozen player?
Louis Saha ?
He's nothing new nothing unique IMo there are much better strikers out there. TBH I dont watch ManU so I should make judgement on him. But remebering him at Fulham, he wasnt nothing special, he maybe a decent run of the meal prem player, playing in a very good Manchester United side.
I still take Crouch over him, like I said there are manystrikers out there in the mouldof Saha, alot better aswell. Crouch is pretty different altogether, which is useful to start with. We could go out and buy an Eto, Villa, Owen or Henry a more "fashionable" striker all of which would be better than Saha. And yet ManU wouldnt have the options like we do upfront because they dont have a Crouch style player.
Crouch probably wouldnt fit in well to Uniteds set-up, but he does ours and thats why he's better especially in a 4-5-1 formation. 4-4-2, I'd look for a better striker than Saha to play upfront with Kuyt , Crouch or Bellamy he aint that special IMO.
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:48 amby Rafa D
I have always stated that any manager in the league would happliy take Peter Crouch into their squad because of the options he brings - including Fergie and Mourinho. I think he brings a lot to the team and gives us options.
Gullit was on the Sky Sports Show the other night after the PSV game and was talking about how much adversity Peter Crouch has faced since he started playing football and how he has passed every test with flying colours and for once I actually agreed with him. Peter came here and many fans were not happy with him. He has gone on to lead our goalscoring charts this year with 18 goals in 26 which is a great strike rate - if does raise the question of how many he would have if Rafa played him as often as Dirk has? He has also scored some very important goals for us since his time here and he has taken every knockback like a man and just got done to work and tried harder.
I have always been a very vocal supporter of Peter and the qualities he brings to this team. He's no Villa or Drogba but he has things to his game that set him apart and its not just his gangly frame. I for one, am very happy that Rafa has stated publically that Crouch is going nowhere.
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:55 amby stmichael
Rafa-Dodd wrote:Gullit was on the Sky Sports Show the other night after the PSV game and was talking about how much adversity Peter Crouch has faced since he started playing football and how he has passed every test with flying colours and for once I actually agreed with him.
Yeah, I like Gullit. He spoke much sense the other night as you say. He really had a go at hairy man Richard Keys, and said that the media agenda should now stop. "What more do you want from him", "He's a very good player". These were the kind of comments he was making and he shut Keys up good and proper.
Even though he wants a Chelsea v Milan final (previous clubs obviously) I'd still like to say well done to Gullitt for sticking up for Crouch.
Compare this to that tw@t of a scottish commentator who came out with a comment of, "which of your top teams would be in for him?".
Tyler replied "well arsenal are struggling to score goals", and Gray interupted him saying, "yeah but you know what i mean".
Hate Andy Gray, he's a f#cking d#ck.
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:59 amby wrighty (not mark!)
Amen to that. Despite what people say, of course he isn't going to win you the league by himself, but no doubt he always puts in a massive contribution and I believe that he is criminally underrated. Put Eto'o or Anelka next to him and watch the goals fly in.
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:18 pmby grayghost
I like Crouch always have not his playing style mind you his honesty and cometment hard work and he never moans about being on the bench. But that is were he will be starting next season on the bench. Crouch will be are plan B
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:43 pmby stmichael
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:58 pmby Stu.Murph
Bamaga man wrote:Stu.Murph wrote:Bob, I like Ashton alot mate, but hes similar to Crouch. And a hell of a lot better. Thats why I don't think theres room for them both.
I don't rate Crouch mate any less than you probably do and I totally agree with what you say. But the fact is he's not good enough over 38 games. Due to a lack of ability. Whatever way you want to mask it... I'm not putting a spin on it, the fact is he's horribley limited and can often be marked out of games and have no effect at all as often happens against the better sides.
You need top players, not decent ones. Crouch is clearly a premier division footballer, but he's never a top player. Compare him to Saha mate and theres simply no comparrison. Ashton's as good as Saha, but different style.
I remember us having Fowler, Owen an on form Heskey and Litmanen to choose from and thinking it doesn't matter. They're all top players. Which they were, the ones we have now, aren't even fit to lace Heskey and Litmanen's boots. Let alone Owen and Fowlers. Heskey in the first season he signed for us shown what he was about, he just wasn't mentally up to being a great player, which is a massive shame.
I am a supporter of Crouch and like Bob said I wholeheartedly agree with. But to say he's not fit to lace Heskeys boot is just laughable.
Get a clue lad.
Also I'd prefer Crouch in my team to Louis Saha, is he now so highly rated because he plays for ManU. Nobody ever drew big comparisons like that when he was at Fulham.
But I tell you why I prefer Crouch over Saha, players like Saha are a dime a dozen. Cisse's, Anelkas, Owens, and your Henry's. A striker with pace who's finnishing abilty is a little better than Cisse's and that aint saying much.
Crouch is a totally different player alltogether and his own style is as rare as rocking horse s.hit in a striker. Not many defenders like playing up against him, he's awkward to play against. Unlike Heskey he has great technical ability and an eye for goal. You say he can be marked out of a game, I'll tell you what mate, most strikers can. Even your Michael Owens and Henry's.
I havent bothered watching Ashton that much so I cant comment. Isnt he injury prone though, if we were to go out and get another striker I'd like to think we could go a class above Ashton. If Ashton was that good wouldnt he of got an England cap by now ? Wouldnt of all the other top teams of come in for him, I dont know ? But what I do know is Crouch is a good player and he'd be the first striker I'd keep at the club out of all four. That might not sound like much, but I believe he's the most effective and most likely to score out of Kuyt, Bellamy and Fowler. Plus he's the best striker suited to Rafa's favoured 4-5-1 formaton out of our others who arent a patch on him in that formation and I doubt Ashton would be.
Rose tinted specticles.
Simple as that.
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:05 pmby Stu.Murph
Bamaga man wrote:Saha a dime a dozen player?
Louis Saha ?
He's nothing new nothing unique IMo there are much better strikers out there. TBH I dont watch ManU so I should make judgement on him. But remebering him at Fulham, he wasnt nothing special, he maybe a decent run of the meal prem player, playing in a very good Manchester United side.
I still take Crouch over him, like I said there are manystrikers out there in the mouldof Saha, alot better aswell. Crouch is pretty different altogether, which is useful to start with. We could go out and buy an Eto, Villa, Owen or Henry a more "fashionable" striker all of which would be better than Saha. And yet ManU wouldnt have the options like we do upfront because they dont have a Crouch style player.
Crouch probably wouldnt fit in well to Uniteds set-up, but he does ours and thats why he's better especially in a 4-5-1 formation. 4-4-2, I'd look for a better striker than Saha to play upfront with Kuyt , Crouch or Bellamy he aint that special IMO.
Saha wipes the floor with every one of our strikers in just about every aspect of the game lad. Hence reason United are so dangerous and we're so feeble in the final third. Simple as that.
You keep going on about Crouch being "different"?
Clearly its something you've heard someone say. What exactly is different about him? Ashton's better in just about every aspect of the game as is Saha.
Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:07 pmby Stu.Murph
stmichael wrote:Rafa-Dodd wrote:Gullit was on the Sky Sports Show the other night after the PSV game and was talking about how much adversity Peter Crouch has faced since he started playing football and how he has passed every test with flying colours and for once I actually agreed with him.
Yeah, I like Gullit. He spoke much sense the other night as you say. He really had a go at hairy man Richard Keys, and said that the media agenda should now stop. "What more do you want from him", "He's a very good player". These were the kind of comments he was making and he shut Keys up good and proper.
Even though he wants a Chelsea v Milan final (previous clubs obviously) I'd still like to say well done to Gullitt for sticking up for Crouch.
Compare this to that tw@t of a scottish commentator who came out with a comment of, "which of your top teams would be in for him?".
Tyler replied "well arsenal are struggling to score goals", and Gray interupted him saying, "yeah but you know what i mean".
Hate Andy Gray, he's a f#cking d#ck.
Why? Because he speaks the truth?
