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Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:26 pmby spud
Rafa has got more out of Djimi and Finnan.
Djimi and Riise used to dive in on tackles far too much. Both have become more stable and jockey better. This is due to good coaching and experience.
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:47 pmby bigmick
Couple of points here. Firstly, Traore is definately on a steep incline of improvement, absolutely no argument there from me. I wouldn't even argue with the possibility of him replacing Hyppia eventually. It's by no means impossible. Stu unfortunately posts a little like Traore plays on occasions. Lots of sensible, well thought out work undone by couple of moments of madness. The Sol Campbell point was incredible Stu. I'm at a loss as to what to say so I won't go there. When you say you always knew he'd make a player, I've got to bow to your talent spotting capabilities. I never ever thought he would until I say him at Fulham when I was pleasantly surprised. Still, while not always agreeing with you I do respect your opinions and find you insightful on occasions so good spot.
Last couple of things. I don't really take my hat off to Houllier on this one as it's only under the tutleage of Rafa that Djimi has shown anything. It would be different if he had gradually been improving season after season but he hadn't. Indeed when talking about his 'legacy', Houllier cherry-picked some of his less laughable signings and omitted to even mention Djimi so clearly even he didn't think improvement was imminent. it's just nice that at last we have a coach who is capable of improving players, Carra, Finnan, Traore. Also, it has to be said, one who has a bit of judgement. I mean, how many of us in all honesty wouldn't have taken the 1.5 mill from Everton? How many of us laughed at the decision? How many of us look like we might look a bit silly now? I say it again without even a hint of sarcasm, anybody prior to this season who thought he might make a player are either a very good guesser or a bit of a judge.
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:54 pmby Redrider
bigmick wrote:Last couple of things. I don't really take my hat off to Houllier on this one as it's only under the tutleage of Rafa that Djimi has shown anything. It would be different if he had gradually been improving season after season but he hadn't. Indeed when talking about his 'legacy', Houllier cherry-picked some of his less laughable signings and omitted to even mention Djimi so clearly even he didn't think improvement was imminent. it's just nice that at last we have a coach who is capable of improving players,
Big Mick, a lot of promising players seemed to go into reverse in terms of Development in the Houllier era.
Don't laugh but Cheyrou, looked stylish and comfortable on the ball when he first arrived. Then he wen't backwards in terms of improvement.
Was this down to Thompson and Sammy Lee ? or Houllier himself ? There are several other examples !!
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:57 pmby stmichael
Some interesting views here.
I kind of suspect, the flaw to Houlliers buys compared to Benitez buys, is that:
- Houllier buys players that are of great potential but not necesserily needed. Or their style of play just doesn't match with the rest of the team.
Like I've been watching Cheyrou. I don't think he's a bad player. In fact he's a good player (Before he came to Liverpool, in France he was dubbed as the next BIG THING, top 5 best players in France if i remember, with being a 10+ goal scoring midfielder per season). But everytime he gets the ball, he seems to pass it to nobody. Although if you look at his passes, those are intelligent passes/runs. But nobody reads him. I think it's to do with style of play, thats why players like Cheyrou, Veron don't seem to cut it at all in the premiership. (And I'm very sure, if we bought Zidane, he might not be able to give us his best here as well).
- Benitez, for the 3 spanish players we've seen so far, he seems to have bought them based according to their style of play and how they can enhance and adapt with the rest of the team. Plus, Benitez knows how to work with them and bring out the best in them. Rather than just buying players with huge potentials just to fit into the positions (and pray for the best that they thrive).
Like I've been discussing with my bro that's why Henry doesn't do well in the French team. Is because the Arsenal style of play compared to Zidane's and the rest of the French team style of play is too different. Which is why Henry threatened to quit at one point, but instead Zidane retired.
I hope and think Benitez is one of those managers like Arsene Wenger. Where he buys nobodies, but with the right training, turn them into world class beaters. Just like what Wenger did with Viera, Henry and the others.
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:06 pmby Fowler_E7
maximus wrote:stu_the_red wrote:Maybe...
Lets face it though, if he could get to even Sol Campbells level it'd be a bit of an improvement.
Get to even Sol Campbells level ?? Oh yeah, because Sol Campbell, would never get into our first team would he?? No, because we have (fanfare please).............Djimi Traore, a guy we were prepared to offload to the bluenoses for a then 'bite their arm off' fee of £1.5 million ....................Completey Ridiculous comment me thinks
i think stu was talking about getting to sol campbells level is passing and touch, not as a player
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:24 pmby stmichael
sol campbell is so overrated. his pure physical presence and strength make him a very good no-nonsense defender, but the likes of ferdinand and woodgate are in a different league when it comes to ability.
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:33 pmby Fowler_E7
true but he's still excellent, look how he excels when he plays with ferdinand who has lots of ability on the ball, most teams have a defender who dosnt have much ball abilty, take hyppia for example he's only slightly better on the ball than campbell
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:34 pmby stmichael
yeah ok, he may scrape in our team ahead of henchoz and djimi. 
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:36 pmby Fowler_E7
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:53 pmby BringBackTiti
he is looking a lot more confident to me and he the gaffa has got faith in him so its starting to show in his performence's which is always good
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:54 pmby Redrider
stmichael wrote:Some interesting views here.
I kind of suspect, the flaw to Houlliers buys compared to Benitez buys, is that:
- Houllier buys players that are of great potential but not necesserily needed. Or their style of play just doesn't match with the rest of the team.
Like I've been watching Cheyrou. I don't think he's a bad player. In fact he's a good player (Before he came to Liverpool, in France he was dubbed as the next BIG THING, top 5 best players in France if i remember, with being a 10+ goal scoring midfielder per season). But everytime he gets the ball, he seems to pass it to nobody. Although if you look at his passes, those are intelligent passes/runs. But nobody reads him. I think it's to do with style of play, thats why players like Cheyrou, Veron don't seem to cut it at all in the premiership. (And I'm very sure, if we bought Zidane, he might not be able to give us his best here as well).
StMick,
Is this down to Thompson and Sammy Lee, trying to 'force-fit' coach them into an English style, taking away the best part of their natural game.
Wheras, Benitez is taking their existing skills and utilising them within the team framework. Perhaps Garcia is a good example of this insomuch as we have no pre-existing example of his style or even position of play in any recent Liverpool line-up.
There are several examples of promising looking players from the Houllier era who appeared to lose their momentum and go backwards, can they all progress like Traore? I would exclude Diouf from that equation, by the way.
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:00 pmby 115-1073096938
Get to even Sol Campbells level ?? Oh yeah, because Sol Campbell, would never get into our first team would he?? No, because we have (fanfare please).............Djimi Traore, a guy we were prepared to offload to the bluenoses for a then 'bite their arm off' fee of £1.5 million ....................Completey Ridiculous comment me thinks
I meant in terms of technical ability and passing. Read the start of the post again.
Posted:
Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:48 pmby adayinthelife
No doubt traore has improved immensely this season but he still dives in with 2 feet.
Did anyone see his tackle against millwall when he could have got a straight red 
I am still waiting for him to lose concentration and do something stupid.
As for houlliers buys alot of the time he bought players in positions we just didn't need like the countless central midfielders he bought and then played them out of position just so they got a game.
Posted:
Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:39 amby Paul C
I'm liking the look of Traore this season, he's getting forward and linking well with Riise 
I'd prefer Riise and Traore on the left than Kewell and Riise 
