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Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:54 amby DrPepe
supersub wrote: 
does that signify our defensive line throughout last nights game?
I would give carra, aurelio, mascherano as low a score as is allowed, as they all made pretty unforgiveable mistakes
arbeloa's mistake was bad, but tbh carra should have hoofed that ball up the pitch instead of passing to alvaro who couldn't see that arshavin was advancing on his position
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:05 amby club_Levis
bavlondon wrote:Id give Reina and Arbelo minus points if that were possible.
I agree..Arsenal had 4 shots on target and all of them were goals...So why would Pepe get anything more than a 5?
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:37 amby Bad Bob
fivecups wrote:Heimdall, Bav, seriously this makes no sense at all. Yes, they scored four goals but 3 of them were completely unstoppable - no keeper in the world could have saved them.
Some people will never let logic or common sense get in the way of a good scapegoat, mate. The puzzling part for me is how Reina's getting it in the neck for not doing the impossible, while Mascherano, Arbeloa and Aurelio are not getting the same degree of criticism for making the crucial and highly preventable mistakes that led to the goals. I mean, if pointing a finger of blame is your thing, there's 3 obvious targets for each of the first three goals (the last was no one's fault...just another lightning quick Walcott counter attack after we poured bodies forward for a corner--hell of a strike from Arshavin though).
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:05 pmby Sabre
Bad Bob wrote:fivecups wrote:Heimdall, Bav, seriously this makes no sense at all. Yes, they scored four goals but 3 of them were completely unstoppable - no keeper in the world could have saved them.
Some people will never let logic or common sense get in the way of a good scapegoat, mate. The puzzling part for me is how Reina's getting it in the neck for not doing the impossible, while Mascherano, Arbeloa and Aurelio are not getting the same degree of criticism for making the crucial and highly preventable mistakes that led to the goals. I mean, if pointing a finger of blame is your thing, there's 3 obvious targets for each of the first three goals (the last was no one's fault...just another lightning quick Walcott counter attack after we poured bodies forward for a corner--hell of a strike from Arshavin though).
Aurelio's and Arbeloa's were more mistakes than Mascherano's.
Aurelio headed the ball somewhere anyone knows he shouldn't have.
Arbeloa waited for the ball when he couldn't do that.
Mascherano made a mistake yes, but half of mistake, I have to see the play again. I say half mistake because I think the short pass he received wasn't a correct one. It was a pass "full of problems". But I have to review it.
On the scapegoat comment, I agree and it's a shame.
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:08 pmby Rockthekop
To blame Reina is laughable. Reina was not at fault for any of those goals, it was three eejits in front of him.
We deserved to win by a country mile but made three awful mistakes which got punished by a top player.
You give a tiger your hand, you lose it.
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:12 pmby Bad Bob
Sabre wrote:Bad Bob wrote:fivecups wrote:Heimdall, Bav, seriously this makes no sense at all. Yes, they scored four goals but 3 of them were completely unstoppable - no keeper in the world could have saved them.
Some people will never let logic or common sense get in the way of a good scapegoat, mate. The puzzling part for me is how Reina's getting it in the neck for not doing the impossible, while Mascherano, Arbeloa and Aurelio are not getting the same degree of criticism for making the crucial and highly preventable mistakes that led to the goals. I mean, if pointing a finger of blame is your thing, there's 3 obvious targets for each of the first three goals (the last was no one's fault...just another lightning quick Walcott counter attack after we poured bodies forward for a corner--hell of a strike from Arshavin though).
Aurelio's and Arbeloa's were more mistakes than Mascherano's.
Aurelio headed the ball somewhere anyone knows he shouldn't have.
Arbeloa waited for the ball when he couldn't do that.
Mascherano made a mistake yes, but half of mistake, I have to see the play again. I say half mistake because I think the short pass he received wasn't a correct one. It was a pass "full of problems". But I have to review it.
On the scapegoat comment, I agree and it's a shame.
You may be right, mate, that Aurelio put Masch under a bit of extra pressure by passing to him inside his own box. But, he had to know that he had no time to doddle on the ball in there and, yet, doddle he did. That's how I saw it anyway. With that said, I can count the number of defensive mistakes Masch has made on one hand so I'll happily chalk it up to being just one of those moments that all players have. Arbeloa's was another in that category...shame it got punished by a wonder goal. Aurelio's is perhaps the most concerning because he did not have a particularly comfortable pair of games against Chelsea and thus seems to be plateauing a bit from the quality form he showed against Madrid and the Mancs.
But, at the end of the day I think you just have to hold up your hand and give credit to Arshavin for inflicting maximum punishment on us for each error. In an ordinary game, those kinds of errors happen but largely go unpunished but last night, he had that extra bit of quality and luck to make us pay every time.
Bottom line, though: it wasn't down to Reina that he scored 4 times.
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:34 pmby Ace Ventura
If it wasnt for individual errors we would have comfortably won that game.
Very frustrating and not much you can do tbh.
Reina deserves no criticism, he had no chance with any of the goals.
Thought the first goal was off side as well, Sky kept showing it from a certain point just after the pass was made to make it look closer imo, only a split second but it made the difference to justify it.
Who at the time they were watching it didnt immediately think it was a definate offside ?
I thought the second goal wasnt just Arbeloa's fault, Carragher should have cleared it beyond him anyway playing him into trouble, like aurellio did with Mascherano for the first.
The third was poor from Fabio as well, he should have used his right foot to clear and that wouldnt have happened.
Mascherano was poor last night, losing posession more than once in dangerous positions and then moving further up the pitch lacking in composure and quality with his final ball when in good positions.
We can forgive these mistakes as the effort was clearly there to see and the never say die attitude was great to watch.
We deserved a win that we never got, fine margins eh.
Great performances from Dirk, Yossi and Torres as well.
Fingers crossed now that someone does us some favours.
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:40 pmby Alex G.
Fowler_E7 wrote:what game were you watching, Mascherano 4? he was immense! appalling mistake though
Mascherano was awful since the beginning, he looked tired.
He only knows to defend.
Apart of this.
Carragher is tired, Arbeloa and Aurelio, bad day at the office, and Agger must learn to be a better defender (he has no pace).
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:02 pmby only me
It might be harsh but last night highlighted our weak spots with precise accuracy.
Aureillio Arbeloa and Mash for me are just not skillful enough to be starters for a title contender team - it is true they have been solid for the large part of the season but i personally am looking for something else - more ball control ,speed and accuracy.
Aurellio and Arbeloa aren't quick and crafty enough to support our offence ,and there defense is medium at best - they fall well within Rafa tactics and philosophy but i have no doubt much more skillfull players are out their for the taking.
Mash is a crazy little ball of heart and passion but he lacks some basic skills of ball control and passing which are crucial to support are offensive stream of play. (god forbid we replace him with Lucas) - need to look for a lighter speedy version of alonso.(spearing?)
It's not because of Yesterdays mistakes it just happened (or maybe not) that all the three were involved in our defensive collapse.
Yossi Kuyt Alonso and Torres were superb yesterday.
Agger is much more efficient then Skertel ,defends just as good and attacks much more better.
Riera is capable of much more then he gives us ,has the best ball handling skills in the team but still not translated to consistent production.
Reina had no work other then getting the balls out of the net (what a frustrating game for a keeper).
Our subs offer no real change in pace and dynamics and this is one of our biggest weakness.
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:04 pmby Kopite-Jud
neer seen such a dominant team conceade so many goals. 
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:08 pmby Alex G.
Alonso struggling all the game, the Arsenal tactic was to put pressure on him because the Knew he is the playmaker, if you can watch the highlights, please watch the alonso performance in the arsenal third goal. No pressure, really tired.
http://www.footyfilms.com/footyvideo.php?vid=ce56e5147
Posted:
Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:15 pmby andy_g
its interesting that aurelio and arbeloa are getting so much stick - back to their usual rubbish seems to be a fairly standard phrase in this thread. so, yes, they weren't either as good as they have been but i think its fairer to say that their form last night wasn't up to the standard they have shown they can play at in recent games. the team as a whole played excellently last night - 3 mistakes all night and they all lead to goals. the fact that arsenal didn't have another shot on target apart from the goals suggests that the full backs, the centre backs, and the defensive midfielder can't have been all that bad.
on the positive side i thought that benny and kuyt were absolutely immense. if they can keep up that level for the rest of the remaining games and arby and aurelio get their games back up again i'm fairly happy about us getting maximum points from the remaining games.
Posted:
Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:06 amby Octsky
if reina played for newcastle, the score will be 10-1 instead of 5-1. if he played for madrid, we will have won by 7 goals in the first half. IMO of coz reina could have done more savings those 4 shots, that whats the keeper is there for.
Posted:
Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:45 amby SuppleMonkey
Alex G. wrote:Alonso struggling all the game, the Arsenal tactic was to put pressure on him because the Knew he is the playmaker, if you can watch the highlights, please watch the alonso performance in the arsenal third goal. No pressure, really tired.
http://www.footyfilms.com/footyvideo.php?vid=ce56e5147
After watching that highlight there seems to be a host of errors.
1. As you pointed out Alonso did not put enough pressure on Nasri and backed off and conceded territory without making a challenge.
2. Mascha should not of been half-heartedly jogging back into position like he did. Him and Alonso are there to primarily close down anything through the middle. It was just to easy for Arsenal to run at the middle of us.
3. Arbeloa could of done better in putting in a tackle, and not letting his man ghost past him.
prior to the next point I think the damage was already done and could of been avoided.
4. Aurelio's kick clearance.
5. Maybe Alonso or Mascha could of picked up Arshavin in the box. I don't think you can expect Carra or Agger to pick Arshavin up, there backs were to him because they were pacing back goal bound, although if you were being really critical Carragher could of blocked it. But I think Alonso or Mascha had the better view as the play was was infront of them and could see the position taken up by Arshavin infront. (this is a harsh critic, obviously had Aurelio not spooned it the need to pick him up wouldnt of arised)
6. Personally I do feel Reina could of done better with that. I know it was quick and close and the ball is harder for a keeper to get down to the closer it is to their body, but still it did look in the replay it went under him.
Posted:
Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:42 pmby l1verp00l4lyf
whithout the mistakes we would have won