Liverpool FC Forum

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:01 pm**

Good post Bamaga.( Its always a good idea to start off every thread by insulting the mods

) You make some interesting points but I still believe we had to concentrate more on our next 2 games. If we lose to the mancs I think we can wave goodbye to our title challenge (even if we had beaten Reading), and obviously the Marseille game as become very important, due to our earlier blip in not beating Besiktas, the risk to Rafa's job and also transfer funds.

Most of the things you say I basically agree with apart from your moan about bringing Gerrard and Torres off. I wouldn't have even played them yesterday. Rafa had 4 choices, to play them the full game, to not play them at all, to play them and bring them off , or to bring them on second half. He chose (like most people wanted) to play them and then bring them off once we were winning comfortably. Unfortunately we wern't winning comfortably we were losing 3 -1 , so he brought them off to save them for the 2 vital games.

Tactically, formation, balance , even the team he picked he got wrong yesterday, but he still didn't get as much wrong as the ref! If we win our next two games, it was a gamble worth taking ..... if we lose to the mancs, 3 points off Reading wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:56 pm**

we have a team that can beat all that is put in front of them.....but it is how they get used is our downfall.

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:42 pm**

its not panic stations just yet.

whats mystifying though, is how come he played Mascherano, Gerrard and Sissoko?

3 strikers up front, and no many chances created.

im not bothered if we lose CL this season. its if we dont beat the mancs and dont win the league.

there is a possibility this season, of c**king up your season in just two games, if we lose the next two.

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:19 pm**

once again i watched drunken master with jackie chan.
in it his master is an old beggar .

there is a scene where a conman sets up a stall and invites people along to spot which cup the an object is behind, but you have to pay money to participate.
the conman then switches the cups around at super fast speed.

along comes this old beggar who really is a master and decides to play the game. while playing the game he spots that the guys at the stall are cheating everybody.....what an interesting scene that is.

but enough about con men switching things around as a way of making a living, i too feel serious pain and hurt when we lose matches and just want my team to be talked about in a great way.

even after winning the champions league nobody even dare mention liverpool as the best in europe or in the country. that season people were saying we was not even the best team in liverpool .

we all know our press loves teams that give them the chance to really over hype them and talk rubbish.

at no point since rafa has been there has liverpool been called the greatest at anything. yesterday is a reason why there is no trust in liverpool.

arsenal,manu and chelsea goes on a run and people claim they are greatest teams ever.

liverpool get to 2 champions league final and nobody cares.

the team is not reliable or glamorous....so what is it that rafa is doing at the club.

i want a big time image for liverpool, not some strange place for the bland and bearded.

we want people to feel like kings just because they play for liverpool. what we don't want is a manager who begged traore to stay when he was linked to everton.

what i don't want is a club dumbed down so that rafa appear attractive,when really he is not.

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:21 pm**

Bamaga a very good point made mate, that i am shocked nobody else has touched on, width.

Rafa is known as a meticulous planner one game at a time man, but the more i think about this game the more baffled i get.
The madejski is one of the biggest pitches in the league, Reading 9 times out of 10 play 4-4-2 so the line up we slected (a very narrow 4-3-3 with no natural wide players) played into there hands.
The referee was poor and if being honest severly effected the result, Rafa gambled it should of been good enough to win but it wasnt. I actually belive that in his mind he thought that he could get away with playing certain players (as long as he had the main players alongside them) by that i mean he gambled with Hobbs Voronin and Sissoko hoping that Reina Carra Gerrard and Torres's presence would be enough for us to win anyway.
Some you win some you lose, he (Rafa) is not perfect, he made a mistake (which he will learn from) but to be fair to the boss more than one eye would of been on Tuesday and Sunday.
Disappointed with the result and could pick the team selection apart like we all could, but just think we need to look at the bigger picture and trust our boss to get it right over the course of the season, i am frustrated but trust him.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:58 am**

The Manhattan Project wrote:After the support the fans showed Rafa, I think these statements posted on the official website, are in a sense a betrayal:

The Reds manager also defended his decision to substitute both Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard, admitting that with the Reds trailing late in the match, his thoughts had switched towards the key Champions League clash with Marseille on Tuesday.

"We were losing 3-1 and so I was trying to protect the key players for the next game," he said.

"We had quality on the bench and we tried to change things with different players who had pace.

"It is an important week for us now and we have the Champions League match to look forward to. We must approach it with confidence and try to win.

"Only then can we think about Manchester United because you know my idea is to take one game at a time. The target is now Marseille."

To take off two of our best players with twenty minutes of a match, where a point was still a possibility, in order to prepare for a match three days later is shocking IMO.

thats what i call arrogance!!
dont want to say further but i feel rafa thought it was only 3 points lost (no sarcasm). he's more interested in the second half of the season. We'll see

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:01 am**

The_Rock wrote:If we lose against marseille then what does the subbing of gerrard and torres stand for ? I mean does these subs guarantee a win against marseille ?

I hope to god we win....else this season will be another write off.

Rock, Rafa's trying to give us the best chance of winning in Marseille. He got tactic wrong but i dont think he lost his focus on long terms
Patience! (i hate the word btw)

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:48 am**

well in my opinion rafa just keeps contradicting himself he says torres can play three in a row then the 1st real tackle on torres he takes him off i think he over protects fernando jesus i would aswell because te looks of things voronin is shockingly bad along with momo (to many times he has played really bad)

that child cannot do a thing but tackle:D

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:53 am**

The overall issue for is that Rafa reverted back to what has frustrated us for large parts of the season - too often we are left with the feeling of points dropped because of an unbalanced or strange team selection. He selected a side with no real width, creativity or pace in midfield. Admittedly we have some injuries there but surely one of Kewell/ Babel/ Lucas could have started to give us some pace or creativity. Voronin right wing is beginning to hark back to the horror Houllier selections of Henchoz at right back or Biscan at centre half!

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:16 am**

poolboyuk wrote:The overall issue for is that Rafa reverted back to what has frustrated us for large parts of the season - too often we are left with the feeling of points dropped because of an unbalanced or strange team selection. He selected a side with no real width, creativity or pace in midfield. Admittedly we have some injuries there but surely one of Kewell/ Babel/ Lucas could have started to give us some pace or creativity. Voronin right wing is beginning to hark back to the horror Houllier selections of Henchoz at right back or Biscan at centre half!

Thats why we lost...the team he picked is unbalanced. I mean Crouch as a left attacker ? :Oo:

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:00 am**

jeff capes wrote:even after winning the champions league nobody even dare mention liverpool as the best in europe or in the country. that season people were saying we was not even the best team in liverpool .

Why do you only appear on here when we get beat?

We all know your a bitter blue.

Some bad mongs have joined this forum since saturday we even have someone pretending to be a witch :laugh:

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:05 am**

Bamaga man wrote:Leon give me a card ya big fairy if you feel I'm going against the grain of "lemmings"

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:43 pm**

I understand the need to rest Sami and Kewell but i don't understand why to do that we needed to change our formation. And i'm sorry to say this because i like the lads energy but Momo is shocking. I think the only positive could have been hobbs i thought he had a good game and knocked the ball about well from the back and never really looked out of place.

The thing is i don't blame Rafa for having one eye on the CL game against Marseilles, i think there is alot on this game not just for the club but Rafa as well. IMO the yanks see qualification to the next stages as a must and have stated to Rafa that they expect nothing less.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:14 pm**

I'm well p1ssed off with Rafa, any Sunday league manager could have picked a better balanced team on Sunday, and won the game!

I reckon Rafa's obsession with change to counter the oppositions strengths comes from his Valencia days, when he was trying to nullify far superior, star studded teams.

What he doesn't seem to grasp is the fact that hes now with one of the big boys, let the others worry about us,
the bench is there to change it around if needed.

If he pulls strokes like he did on Sat, 5/6 times a season that WILL cost us up to 18pts
none of the other big 4 will throw pts away like that.
He really needs to get a grip of himself or its p45 time for him,
and he will only have himself to blame!

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:06 am**

Interesting thread

Liverpool FC Forum

Rafa you can be the master of greatness - But also the master of our downfall