Page 10 of 32
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:35 pmby Ace Ventura
To be fair to Keane, when subbed he has looked more disappointed than petulant.
Most games he has been brought off i think Rafa was justified, having said that with Torres out he should be playing.
I also think we paid too much, he probably isnt best suited to the formation what we have recently had most success with but i hoped this season we might see 4-4-2 more, thats the system that Robbie is used to.
Its obviously not Rafa's fault that Torres has been so unfortunate with injuries but it is Rafas fault for then not getting the best out of his next most expensive signing - especially when at times we are struggling to break sides down.
Also Keane wasnt always a big fish in a small pond at Spurs he wasnt always the main man, there have been plenty of times in his career where he has been on the bench.
What would bother me if i was him...is that in the past he has had decent players keeping him out of the side.
Am not sure hand on heart we would class Kuyt as a striker in the same bracket as Defoe and Berbatov etc.
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:36 pmby burjennio
Taking your point on board though, any ideas on why Keane hasnt been given a sniff in the last two league games...man management wise i mean ?
I think his moaning and gesturing against PSV (where in fairness he played well) every time another grey shirt misplaced a pass or didnt look to him didnt do him any favours with the manager or possibly the other players. Im mentioned in another post that when he put N'Gog through for the 3rd goal not one Liverpool player went over to congratulate him, he just trotted miserably back to the half way line and kicked off again - he reminded me a bit of that player in school we all knew who constantly whinged whenever anyone else did anything wrong, serving only to alienate himself his teammates. I dont think for a second he's done that but if you were out on the pitch and he was berating you every time you underhit a pass wouldnt you question his overall contribution? Its not like he's Steven Gerrard whos earned the right to tell a player when hes not at the races simply by being the standard bearer for the rest of the team. I was (and still am) a huge fan of Robbie Keane before we signed him but he needs to get his head right before he walks onto the pitch.
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:40 pmby Leonmc0708
Ace Ventura wrote:Also Keane wasnt always a big fish in a small pond at Spurs he wasnt always the main man, there have been plenty of times in his career where he has been on the bench.
What would bother me if i was him...is that in the past he has had decent players keeping him out of the side.
Am not sure hand on heart we would class Kuyt as a striker in the same bracket as Defoe and Berbatov etc.
KEane has always been the main man at Spurs - the fans never liked BErbatov and the management never liked Defoe - KEane was on a pedastal mate.
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:48 pmby account deleted by request
For me, I think KEane has been a bit too big for his boots, and I see Rafa's non selection to be related to form first and foremost (ie his not scoring) AND also his attitude. The shaking of the finger, the look of disguist at his number being held up and the shake of the head.
Personally I want players to give a sh.it about being dragged off - but KEane's attitude has been petulent in my opinion. I get the impression with him that he was the big fish at Spurs - and now he is here he still thinks the World revolves around him. Dont get me wrong, seems a nice guy, down to earth and all reports about him are that he is proper sound, BUT there is a theory that you revert to type, and as he would have been seen as the hero and saviour, he would have naturally come to think this way of himself - so it will be difficult for him to accept it when he is not and EVERYTHING in the play of the team does not go through him.
That said I think once he adapts he wwill be an excellent addition as he is proven at this level.
Where I do feel Rafa got it wrong on KEane however ( hark at me criticising Rafa) are as follows:
1) I dont think he is the type of player that compliments our current side and style of play - that is Torres up front with Gerrard off him is the way we have got to play once all are fit.
2) I do not feel he is value at £20m - I think he is more like a £10m player
3) I would start him and Kuyt up front without Torres fit
I pretty much agree with all that Leon. My worry is can we score enough goals from other areas to add to the Gerrard and Torres partnerships goals? I feel we need at least one more player to step up and knock 10 -15 league goals in. Unfortunately I can't see where they are going to come from unless we play Keane, which just throws the Gerrard /Torres partnership out again.
The lack of goals from our defenders and midfield players (Gerrard aside) certainly puts tremendous pressure on the forwards and Gerrard to deliver.
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:59 pmby Fo Dne
Leonmc0708 wrote:Pongolle - did not and has not since set the World alight. he wwas not good enough.
But Dirk Kuyt is? 
Behave yourself. Anyone who things Kuyts better than Sinama-Pongolle doesn't have a clue!
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:05 pmby dawson99
Fo Dne wrote:Leonmc0708 wrote:Pongolle - did not and has not since set the World alight. he wwas not good enough.
But Dirk Kuyt is?
Behave yourself. Anyone who things Kuyts better than Sinama-Pongolle doesn't have a clue!
Maybe give explanations instead of insults?
Kuyt this season has already set up a shed load and scored a few as well
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:08 pmby Fo Dne
Leonmc0708 wrote:Skill, Knowledge, Beleif and Motivation - the four key areas for performace of individuals.
Lucas clearly has plenty of skill, and the level of knowlege to be a success at the club, he simply needed some self beleif and the motivation to see that the manager will bring off Mascherano, arguably the best midfielder of his type on the planet off and entrust Lucas with the running of the midfield.
Unbelievable!
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:10 pmby GYBS
Look just because people have a different opinion to yourself doesnt mean you can go around insulting them and calling them clueless - give it a rest your boring now .
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:13 pmby GYBS
Obvuisly Rafa thinks Kuyt offers more to Liverpool than what Pongolle did . And i reckon he is a better judge than you and a bit more qualified than you and as someone has said what exactly has Pongolle done since he left ? he is doing ok i guess but not exactly ripping up tress where as Kuyt was one of the best players for his country during the summer in the euros and so far this season as been oneof our best and most important players scoring and creating goals. FACT and the facts are there to be seen by everyone.
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:23 pmby Fo Dne
GYBS wrote:Obvuisly Rafa thinks Kuyt offers more to Liverpool than what Pongolle did . And i reckon he is a better judge than you and a bit more qualified than you and as someone has said what exactly has Pongolle done since he left ? he is doing ok i guess but not exactly ripping up tress where as Kuyt was one of the best players for his country during the summer in the euros and so far this season as been oneof our best and most important players scoring and creating goals. FACT and the facts are there to be seen by everyone.
MUUUUHHHHHHH!!!
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:04 pmby Effes
Emerald Red wrote:I believe we've seen the best of Chelsea......
United are stuttering.
We believe what we want to believe.
United stuttering? Won 5 Drawn 2 Lost 0 ?
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:45 pmby LegBarnes
Stu is WUM and there for should be kicked of forums imo.
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:48 pmby Effes
LegBarnes wrote:Stu is WUM and there for should be kicked of forums imo.
Listen, just because Stu says get rid now doesn't mean he's on a wind up.
My mate who's been a season ticket holder since he was a kid says Rafa out too.
He has his reasons, and dont we all?
Some people like to get their view in before anyone else irrespective of whether it's premature - just to say
"I told you so" - which is Stu's calling card.
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:53 pmby LegBarnes
Fo Dne wrote:GYBS wrote:Obvuisly Rafa thinks Kuyt offers more to Liverpool than what Pongolle did . And i reckon he is a better judge than you and a bit more qualified than you and as someone has said what exactly has Pongolle done since he left ? he is doing ok i guess but not exactly ripping up tress where as Kuyt was one of the best players for his country during the summer in the euros and so far this season as been oneof our best and most important players scoring and creating goals. FACT and the facts are there to be seen by everyone.
MUUUUHHHHHHH!!!
By comment likes this I meen not his views he has an ego you could fill a room with and winds almost every one up on this forums hense why I called him WUM i don't use that term loosely.
Posted:
Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:46 pmby redhayesy
Effes wrote:LegBarnes wrote:Stu is WUM and there for should be kicked of forums imo.
Listen, just because Stu says get rid now doesn't mean he's on a wind up.
My mate who's been a season ticket holder since he was a kid says Rafa out too.
He has his reasons, and dont we all?
Some people like to get their view in before anyone else irrespective of whether it's premature - just to say
"I told you so" - which is Stu's calling card.
isn't your mate on a wind up when he says raffa out? what are his reasons mate, i'd love to hear them. i still think he's in the minority
cause for me i still can't think of anyone at this moment in time i would want to see as our manager - [just my opinion] other than raffa.
we are still top of the table,with raffa in charge
never stop believing!