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Rotation...... - One extreme to the other?
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:09 pmby bigmick
We used to rotate a lot when Rafa first came. Then he gradually decreased it and played more of a core of a settled team. Now, Roy has come in and it's certainly my impression that he has an idea that there should be a "first team", that the Europa League Cup is for the second string, and it also appears that he is loathe to change the team after a good performace.
My question is simply this. Do people like the lack of rotation, should we be wary of players getting over tired, are we leaving ourselves open to injuries later on, would they start fielding stronger teams in Europe should we progress or would you stick with the kids? Is it perhaps that Roy is bound to play similar line ups because of a percieved lack of quality in "back up" players?
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:17 pmby Ben Patrick
I think there is a big difference mate.
We are not in the champions league therefore there is a clear difference in the priorities each manager would have had.
Roy is doing as you said and playing the kids in europe. But would he do that if we were in the champions league ?
I dont know, but doubt it tbh.
That would then leave a different dilemma as to whether he would rest players in certain games.
My guess is he would rotate a bit but not to the extent that Rafa did.
That is just a total guess though.
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:20 pmby stmichael
We don't have the quality to rotate all the time at the moment imo, especially in defense. We have a lot of numbers in midfield even thoiugh we still don't have an out and out wide player.
I have no problem with squad rotation but I think from a psychological point of view it would say a lot if we had the same team out there tonight that beat Chelsea. I think Roy will then make a couple of changes for Stoke, with possibly the Greek and Joe Cole coming back into the fold.
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:23 pmby bigmick
Ben Patrick wrote:I think there is a big difference mate.
We are not in the champions league therefore there is a clear difference in the priorities each manager would have had.
Roy is doing as you said and playing the kids in europe. But would he do that if we were in the champions league ?
I dont know, but doubt it tbh.
That would then leave a different dilemma as to whether he would rest players in certain games.
My guess is he would rotate a bit but not to the extent that Rafa did.
That is just a total guess though.
Yep fair point about the Champions League Ben, he'd have to play the big guns in that and therefore he'd have to rotate more than he is doing.
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:31 pmby stmichael
You just have to look at how Spurs are struggling to balance the two at the moment. They've been brilliant in the CL but in the League they've taken 2 points out of 12 and are struggling badly. Chelsea's squad is nowhere near as strong as it was. I mean without Essien and Lampard we completely bullied Ramires and Zhirkov at the weekend. They've been forced to bring a couple of youth players into the first team fold.
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:44 pmby maguskwt
Oh FFS rotation!
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:44 pmby dawson99
maguskwt wrote:Oh FFS rotation!
LOL
i've missed the old rotation thread 
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:47 pmby 7_Kewell
i think we should start rotation in goal, swapping Reina with Carra. That'll prove to Pepe that we can live without him 
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:53 pmby Roger Red Hat
hmmm, seems Roy doesn't favour rotating and tinkering every game and to be honest there is little point dismantling and restructuring a team that has just beaten Chelsea. If I was manager I'd stick with this team for most Premier league games with just a sub here and there providing everyone stays fit.
but for Europa league I'd stick with the kids all the way to the end and if we play in the final I'd pop Torres & Gerrard on the bench, start with the young lads and review it at half time. If we're winning leave it and let those lads do the job but if we're a goal or 2 down or playing out a draw bring on Gerrard/Torres and put it to bed.
sounds real simple this manager 
. 
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:08 pmby SouthCoastShankly
Almost all on here will list rotation as the biggest gripe and downfall with Rafa's tactics. I firmly believe that consistently under rotated teams play better together. Both Chelsea or Man Utd didn't rotate as much as we did under Rafa. It has to be a key factor in league success.
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:09 pmby jacdaniel
I think a lot of factors have had an affect on Roys lack of rotation. Obviously we're not in the CL and our youths should be able to handle the earlier stages of the Europa. Up until recently, i don't think Roy had much trust in a lot of our fringe players. And also injuries to Kuyt, johnson, cole and Agger have left the squad thin at times.
But lately a lot of players are stepping it up a bit and causing Roy good selection headaches. Kelly is playing well and certainly gonna challenge for a LB or RB position. With Kuyt back we have a lot more options. (Especially when Cole is back). This has led to Maxi playing better + better. The Greek has really took his chances to impress. And Lucas has also being very impressive.
I think Roy is gonna have some real selection problems soon. And we might see some more rotation.
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:26 pmby laza
SouthCoastShankly wrote:. Both Chelsea or Man Utd didn't rotate as much as we did under Rafa. It has to be a key factor in league success.
Did rotate less then us ??
Or was it the case they just have far more quality in their squads which allowed rotation to be far more effective
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:37 pmby stmichael
laza wrote:SouthCoastShankly wrote:. Both Chelsea or Man Utd didn't rotate as much as we did under Rafa. It has to be a key factor in league success.
Did rotate less then us ??
Or was it the case they just have far more quality in their squads which allowed rotation to be far more effective
United are always rotating. They've always had more quality to fall back on though so it was less of a risk. I bet Ferguson hasn't played the same eleven for two games running in ages.
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:09 pmby mart
SouthCoastShankly wrote:Almost all on here will list rotation as the biggest gripe and downfall with Rafa's tactics. I firmly believe that consistently under rotated teams play better together. Both Chelsea or Man Utd didn't rotate as much as we did under Rafa. It has to be a key factor in league success.
Its not. The first rafa years we had a squad full of "options and possibilities". We sold our options and possibilities for a stronger first team (as most of this forum wanted to at the time). Now we have a much stronger first team but a thin squad vulnerable to injuries. I guess we didnt have the money for both a strong first team and some options and possibilities.
Chelsea and Manu rotate a lot as well, but they have a much stronger squad so you dont notice as much. Having a solid squad you can rotate is a key factor in league success.
Posted:
Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:32 pmby SouthCoastShankly
mart wrote:SouthCoastShankly wrote:Almost all on here will list rotation as the biggest gripe and downfall with Rafa's tactics. I firmly believe that consistently under rotated teams play better together. Both Chelsea or Man Utd didn't rotate as much as we did under Rafa. It has to be a key factor in league success.
Its not. The first rafa years we had a squad full of "options and possibilities". We sold our options and possibilities for a stronger first team (as most of this forum wanted to at the time). Now we have a much stronger first team but a thin squad vulnerable to injuries. I guess we didnt have the money for both a strong first team and some options and possibilities.
Chelsea and Manu rotate a lot as well, but they have a much stronger squad so you dont notice as much. Having a solid squad you can rotate is a key factor in league success.
Not entirely true. I remember when Torres was brought and there was an outcry that he was being rotated. Rafa soon played him in every game possible.
Rotation has its place, but Rafa rotated for the sake of rotation, he over rotated. Now this in theory may of meant a fresher squad throughout a season but in reality it meant frequent disjointed performances with no team fluidity.