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Are we too "nice"?
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:44 amby stmichael
It's one thing that has really been bugging me when watching us recently. Why are we so f#cking "nice". Some of the decisions that have gone against us recently have been shocking. Imagine if that would have happened to Chelsea, Arsenal or the manc filth? Terry, Neville or Henry would have been straight there crying and moaning. At the end of the day its all well and good saying "we are better than that", but its losing us games/sendings off/decisions.
The fact is, Gerrard is a captain when we are winning. He doesnt want to know about the team when it's not going for us. It's a fact people need to wake up to. Ok what he did in the FA cup final or CL final was great (in the 2nd halfs anyway) but look at the run ups? He doesn't do it away from home in the League enough.
Thats my 1 major stipulation about Gerrard and the captaincy, he never fights for his players with a referee, you look at that monster foreheaded mongo Terry, as soon as a decision goes against the chavs, he's over to the ref arguing, Gerrard NEVER does that, you only have to look at that bruiser Faye the other day. He got a yellow card in the first 15 minutes of the game and continued to hack into us, if that was Terry the ref would have known about it, and he'd be off
Gerrard just needs to be a bit more vocal for me, its all well and good doing it ina cup final, but the premiership is our bread and butter
The likes of Reina and Bellamy moaning at refs won't do anything. But Gerrard is the biggest star in English football, and he could seriously put some pressure on refs if he wanted to. Are we giving oursleves a disadvantage by not doing it? Carra does it a fair bit, but it doesn't carry the same weight as he isn't the captain, and he isn't Steven Gerrard.
Discuss
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:52 amby NiftyNeil
That's a fair shout St Mick. I've voiced my concerns regarding this previously. It is very rare that you see Gerrard acting like a captain on the pitch - he seems to prefer to lead by example.
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:52 amby Leonidas08
I agree to some degree, but maybe Gerrard just wants to get on with the game, most the people who complain just waste time. Gerrard is my favourite player in the world, and he can really lift a team up and win games.
Though some of your points are valid.
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:09 pmby bng89
Thats true. We got no real evil streak in us. Apart from Bellamy n Momo but thats more shown towards another player
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:20 pmby account deleted by request
I agree, Gerrard seems to think he's "above all that". If Liverpool had protested as Chelsea would have, about the Faye head attack which split Kuyt's head open. Faye would have been off.
Its the same when our players are involved in a "handbags incident" Gerrard never wants to know. Just stands there with his hands on his hips waiting for play to recommence. The only time I have seen him get involved was against Newcastle the season before last when he pushed Shearer.
Touch a Man U player and they are all running in to get involved, touch a Liverpool player and they just stand about waiting for the ref to sort it. Not only does the ManU approach build a good teamspirit ,but it puts added pressure on the ref to take action.
Gerrard is a great player and an inspirational leader, but not in my view a great team Captain. The Captain should care about the team first and himself and his own performance second. I am not sure that applies to Gerrard.
Emlyn Hughes said that Tommy Smith was the best Captain he had ever played under for one reason ,Smith could be having a nightmare of a game personally but he would still be roaring and shouting his team mates on.
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:28 pmby anfieldadorer
valid point st.
in amen to that, i read news more of gerrard expressing his disatisfaction about his team mates, games' approach etc. than lifting up team morale
still being fresh on my mind when two years bcak he stated his pesimism about LFC not to be going through CL later stages (which we went top)
i mean, go kicking your team mates' ars3 when you want them to perform, but also stand steadily backing them when in need.
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:36 pmby kunilson
Ive seen gerrard shout at his own players, but maybe not to the referee as much...i dont think this means that it costs us big decisions all the time. Im fairly certain he has a quiet word with the ref whenever he can, but u dont see him breaking a sweat to fight every battle...
He does have a tendancy to sulk in games when its not goin his way even when he's trying, obviously not all the time as we have seen in the recent cup finals but his own game is what he concentrates more than how the team are playing...and i think that he needs to learn to put the team above his own game sometimes, and involve himself more with the team even when he himself is not performing brilliantly.
Saying that i still think he is a good captain, and he is getting better.....he's never been one to shout and complain all the time, but he is one that leads by example...and he does that well most of the time.
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:38 pmby stmichael
The issue of captaincy seems to me to be a problem as I dont think Gerrard is a natural leader. As previously stated he just inspires the team through his own performances. The thing is, Steven Gerrard would always get stuck in whether he was the captain or the tea lady because that is his way.
Unfortunately (as our game against Bolton proved) a leader needs to think, communicate and motivate rather than do all the work of his sub-ordinates. Look at other jobs and you'll spot a good leader because he or she will delegate certain tasks to others whilst thinking strategically. He or she will also be an excellent communicator.
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:07 pmby bigmick
stmichael wrote:The fact is, Gerrard is a captain when we are winning. He doesnt want to know about the team when it's not going for us. It's a fact people need to wake up to.
St Mike in all the time I've spent on this forum, this passage is the one of yours that I have disagreed with most. In games where we drift to defeat, of which there have been a couple recently, gerrard seems to me to be our only hope of rescuing something from the fire most of the time. If some of the other players cared as much as the captain then we wouldn't be where we are.
I take the point about the lack of a colective pressure being put on referees (and it's a reasonable observation) but the criticism of Gerrard, given that he is stuck out on the left hand side of midfield in a position which handcuffs him, is plain wrong in my opinion.
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:14 pmby akumaface
I think SG doesn't have to shout all the time but I mean he need to do it a few times just to let the Ref knows he is shouting for something that is valid. It is better for SG to become a player with fewer but valid shout rather than constant shout like a Terry. But to the question of whether SG should be the Captain, I personally thinks Garragher is a better fit. THis is not a knock against SG but no. 23 has more soldier like character.
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:31 pmby stmichael
bigmick wrote:stmichael wrote:The fact is, Gerrard is a captain when we are winning. He doesnt want to know about the team when it's not going for us. It's a fact people need to wake up to.
St Mike in all the time I've spent on this forum, this passage is the one of yours that I have disagreed with most. In games where we drift to defeat, of which there have been a couple recently, gerrard seems to me to be our only hope of rescuing something from the fire most of the time. If some of the other players cared as much as the captain then we wouldn't be where we are.
I take the point about the lack of a colective pressure being put on referees (and it's a reasonable observation) but the criticism of Gerrard, given that he is stuck out on the left hand side of midfield in a position which handcuffs him, is plain wrong in my opinion.
i was talking about the league mick. when was the last time gerrard dragged us out of the mire in an away league game when we were up sh#t creek?
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:36 pmby bigmick
stmichael wrote:i was talking about the league mick. when was the last time gerrard dragged us out of the mire in an away league game when we were up sh#t creek?
Probably Sheffield United away about four weeks ago I would have thought. Although it would have been nice if he could have got the winner as well as winning the penalty for the equaliser I'll give you that 
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:38 pmby bigmick
My memories a bit sketchy on stuff but didn't he also get the equalizer at Goodison last season when we won 3-1 or was that the season earlier?
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:21 pmby redmikey
i am happy to see him lead by example and not go moaning to the ref as a ref will never change his mind,
to me SG has not looked happy all season so far, i hate rumours so i won't guess what it is
for me rafa is going to have to rest xabi or sg , or put sg back on the right where he came inside and got so many goals last year
tough choise but that is why he is manager,
for me imho this year we are playing some great football but not finishing chances and while losing to the bitters and bolton is not going to win us anything the progress is still there to be seen, we have better players than before and a manager who knows what he is aiming for
a bloke sat near me in the pub agaist bolton said that he would rather us scrape 1-0 victories all season than play good football and only win cups, while i am as hungry for the league as anyone i would love us to do it with some class like the lfc of old and not chavski like where everyone sees the stuffyness of there play
Posted:
Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:27 pmby RUSHIE#9
TBH I couldn't comment on every match and descision as I can't get tickets most of the time for games so I'm relying on what the tv pics show. To be fair what I do see I'd agree with st.mick's observations that maybe Gerrard needs to be in the ref's face a bit more often when something goes against us. However I don't agree with the observation that Gerrards not a natural leader. We don't see or hear what goes on in the dressing room before and at half time in the matches. HE leads naturally by trying to physically do something on the pitch which has to be as good as just shouting and bawling at everyone.
I do think though that the team as a whole are way too nice out on the pitch. When the games get tough (like saturday at Fat Sam's Pie Palace) there are too many that just don't want to get stuck in and battle away. At times you can see one or two not going into tackles fully committed or trying to play passes that are not really going to come just to avoid having to deal with a possible tough challenge. I'd like to see a few more crunching tackles (away from home) going in and plenty of argy bargy even if it results in a few more yellow cards as we'd be stamping more authority on the game and creating more space for us to play our game in the long run.