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Rafa's ultimate goal scorer - Maybe lando has a point
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:18 amby TheoRacle
Lando posted this quote in the 'Cisse Off' thread but I think it's worthy of seperate discussion as Lando raises an interesting point...
Lando_Griffin wrote:Maybe the Cisse supporters, and Crouch-bashers have one common fault.
Is it not possible that Rafa sees his squad not merely as;
Goalkeepers,
Defenders,
Midfielders and
Strikers?
Maybe Mr Benitez sees the limitations of this way of thinking, and has his own ideas, without such rigid structure.
We all assume Rafa sees Crouch as a striker in a team, but I'm not sure he does. I feel he sees him as an important cog in the mechanism which is LFC. Not a striker, not a midfielder, but a lanky stalwart in an advanced position who does all the donkey work, and balances the team.
Who can argue that we don't generally play better with Crouch in the side? He is, in effect, a direct replacement for Heskey. He doesn't have Emile's pace or strength, but he is, for my money, ten times better.
Cisse is an unintentional replacement for Owen, and to be honest he just isn't as good. No where near infact. The fact he doesn't get too many games for LFC says it all about the man's attitude, ability and workrate. He's fricking idle, and while he may be a decent player, he is never going to fit into Rafa's style.
In a nutshell, the only way Cisse will succeed at LFC is to play him with Crouch (Owen/Heskey) while playing a long-ball/counter-attacking system. (That is boring, and sh*t.)
I say p*ss the fecker off, and buy someone who will play the way the manager asks, and not sulk if he's dropped for being w*nk.
Let's assume that Crouch is not a 'striker' in Rafa's eyes but more of a link man alowing an attacking midfield to get forward and presumably feed an out an out striker or an assassin in the hole type player. What then does Rafa want to play as his best formation, 4-5-1, 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1?
What type of attributes does Rafa's ultimate goal scorer need to posess - does Rafa even see the need for a specialist striker or is he happy to play the way we're playing with goals coming from all areas of the team?
It's just a thought, but maybe Gerrard is in line to be in the hole in a 4-4-1-1 formation presuming a specialist right sided midfield arrives in January of course. Can anyone else see him playing the same type of role as Rooney does for the Scum - free to roam across the park on edge of the box? Maybe we've already got a deadly striker just waiting to be unleashed - I'm sure Stevie would be in his element...
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:22 amby DAV
I must say i disagree with parts of what were said.
The post is from a cisse basher and a crouch fan, just trying to be clever the way its wrote.
I'm not saying Cisse is the best out their but he's the best we have for pace and goals.Yes his attitude sucks. But maybe thats because he hardly ever gets a chance
The stats show he's the best we have.
With the exception of Chelsea (who do have alot of attacking quality but no big goal scorer as of yet, as Drogba and Crespo score but nothing over the top) last year, I cannot think of hardly any team in any country who wins a league with out at least 1 top scoring proven striker.
AC Millan-Schevchenko
Liverpool-Rush and Aldridge whilst he was with us
Real Madrid-Ronaldo
Bareclona-Etoo and even though not an out and out striker Ronaldinho
the list is endless
So yes we do get alot of goal from other areas but I don't think Crouch is a man I would want leading my attack, in search of the title.
But then again thats my opinion and I like to see a team with a, out and out goal scorer.
But I faith in our manager
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:29 amby LiverpoolMadman
I like both of them ... but we should sell Nando instead.
Reason Number 1 : He's not scoring goals
Reason Number 2 : He's getting older.
BTW, next to be out is Luis Garcia
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:33 amby Paul C
LiverpoolMadman wrote:I like both of them ... but we should sell Nando instead.
Reason Number 1 : He's not scoring goals
Reason Number 2 : He's getting older.
BTW, next to be out is Luis Garcia
Garcia? he's always played well for us and he's getting better due to the gact he doesn't get muscled off the ball as much now and he's used to the pace of the EPL 
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:39 amby LiverpoolMadman
Garcia? he's always played well for us and he's getting better due to the gact he doesn't get muscled off the ball as much now and he's used to the pace of the EPL
Bro, yes he played well , yes he score goal ... but there's one or two things that I don't like ..... Most of the time he will lose the ball .... maybe he try to play like maradona ....he need to played simple football ...infact HK play better now days ...
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:48 amby Paul C
LiverpoolMadman wrote:Garcia? he's always played well for us and he's getting better due to the gact he doesn't get muscled off the ball as much now and he's used to the pace of the EPL
Bro, yes he played well , yes he score goal ... but there's one or two things that I don't like ..... Most of the time he will lose the ball .... maybe he try to play like maradona ....he need to played simple football ...infact HK play better now days ...
Thats a bold statement there mate, Kewell is getting better but I'd far prefer to have Garcia in my 11.
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:54 amby Roger Red Hat
LiverpoolMadman wrote:Garcia? he's always played well for us and he's getting better due to the gact he doesn't get muscled off the ball as much now and he's used to the pace of the EPL
Bro, yes he played well , yes he score goal ... but there's one or two things that I don't like ..... Most of the time he will lose the ball .... maybe he try to play like maradona ....he need to played simple football ...infact HK play better now days ...
What? give your head a shake lad! 
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:58 amby Kopboyau
Paul C wrote:BTW, next to be out is Luis Garcia
Garcia? he's always played well for us and he's getting better due to the gact he doesn't get muscled off the ball as much now and he's used to the pace of the EPL
[/quote]
Plain and simple we need and out and out striker. Did you people miss the Saprissa game. Crouch and Cisse played well together. I think Nando has to start scoring or he needs to go. Luis Garcia although wasteful should not be sold.
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:10 amby babu
Luis Garcia? did you watch the game against the SP? did you see the glancing header that nearly went in? He meant that, has scored very similar goals. He is our X-Factor, very unpredictable and at times looks like the only person on the park to score.
Sure he wastes balls sometimes, but offers so much more. When we have someone solid in warnock's position, who can distribute and defend well, Garcia's ball wasting will not have the same impact. But garcia makes up for it in so many ways.
Cisse I have always liked, but like the rest I fear he is gone. To be honest it may be the best thing for him, as I don't think warming the bench or playing 10 mins a game is doing much for his confidence.
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:22 amby Sabre
To be honest, I don't understand the people who'd sell Garcia, with the amounts of goals he provided and provides, and yet, are eager to see more of Kewell.
I don't know if it's that old phenomena of the kid with new shoes (the players to be signed or tested are better than the one we already seen) anyway, I can't understand it.
BTW I spot on Lando's post. I don't think it's a post of a "Crouch defender", in fact, I think Crouch would be a very valuable player, no matter if you are in the EPL or the liga.
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:26 amby DAV
Garcia seems alot like smicer
when he wants to play he's great but sometimes just vanishes with out trace in games. he seems he plays well every 4 games
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:29 amby tommycockles
Paul C wrote:Garcia? he's always played well for us and he's getting better due to the gact he doesn't get muscled off the ball as much now and he's used to the pace of the EPL
Completely agree- although we didn't win on Sunday you could still see there was a definite improvement in our play and flexibility. Garcia looked especialy dangerous and will only get better the more he's allowed to play his game whilst our team all hit form around him!
It's a shame we didn't add to our silverware but the way we're advancing we will be in with a shout for it next year!!
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:29 amby Liverpool 4 EVA
LiverpoolMadman wrote:Garcia? he's always played well for us and he's getting better due to the gact he doesn't get muscled off the ball as much now and he's used to the pace of the EPL
Bro, yes he played well , yes he score goal ... but there's one or two things that I don't like ..... Most of the time he will lose the ball .... maybe he try to play like maradona ....he need to played simple football ...infact HK play better now days ...
LOL @ Liverpoolmadman
Prefer Harry over Garcia? are you SERIOUS?? 
Nah not possible 
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:38 amby Sabre
Of course it's possible, for each cracking header like the one against Anderlecht, or the goal of quickness and awareness against Betis, Kewell has got 10. No, no 10, houndreds of goal like that.
Ok, I LIKE KEWELL. I like him more, as I see him . But please, don't make a post defending him everytime he completes a good pass.
Posted:
Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:59 amby Sabre
Back to topic, I'd like to explain better why I agree Lando's post.
I do think that Crouch is a proper striker, the part I agree more with the post is the part in which he speaks about the "reality" is not that rigid as we use to paint it.
I've noticed that around here you like a lot putting your fav formations. You place the 11 players aligned, and say "we are going to play a 4 4 2 with Garcia on the right".
Thing is that there as many different 4 4 2 systems as Hustler replicas. In a Stadium football is seen very well. When the keeper kicks from goal kick, you can see how the "4 4 2" narrows a lot, and all the eleven players are all together. There are 4 4 2 systems, that become a 6 3 1 while defending, others remain 5 4 1, so it all depends. Garcia might start in the right but does a lot forward runs, just as important as this runs, is to have Alonso covering the gap of the right, or Finnan covering Luis Garcia's back. That kind of coordination and work is far more important than names like 442 or rigid Striker / Midfielder /DEfender definitions.
I don't know iif I expressed well my point.