Liverpool FC Forum

by **Penguins** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:21 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Penguins wrote:I say most will not happen probably until August.
Why?
Since when have they been done earlier?

Well, since the transfer record is £14m, which our rivals has spent twice as high as, it no surprise we aren't close.

And, yes, money will help. Chelski would be without any titles without those 200-300 million the last few years.

I see the need for 2 top class wingers and a top class striker= all 3 will cost 15-30 million. This means the transfer record will need to be broken a few times.
Sorry, but that is what top class flair players cost today.
If Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves all cost 15m+ and Malouda 17m+ then you can bet that even better players will cost at least as much!

I repeat, it's is not my belief that spending 7-10 million on players will help us get us any closer to what we want.
And unless we show we mean business the story will always be the same every year.

Keeping the status quo is not progress to me. Stadium was long overdue and should not be seen as bonus, more as a very delayed must. We have 0 top class flair player in our squad. 0!

I'm not comparing what other clubs have done this year.
So what if Chelski spend 20 million this summer?
They have spent 250 million the last 3 years!
Same with Utd. They have already beefed up their team over the years with Rooney, Ferdinand etc.

Us?
We have stayed at the same place for years. Always getting 3-4 choice players, getting rid of half of them at leat every year. Haven't seen any class players arriving for years, only alot of maybes(except maybe Alonso who we got on the cheap).

In the past it was ok to raid Norwich, Watford etc for their promising players and give them time or hope that they'd develop. There is no time for hop and development if you want to be the best nowadays. Chelski and Manure has set the bar and if you don't keep up you'll be left behind.

And NO, I never said benayoun was the be all and end all of our business. I only claimed the fact that we a pursuing such players is not in the best interest of the club if we are to take any steps forward. A typical middle table player, maybe Uefa cup quality. pretty good, but not something we should be after. And he is the only player we have so far bid on.

I trust Rafa, Gillet and Hicks mean well and want good signings
but I sense a bit of naivity from Gillet and Hicks when they talk about singings. Hecks said 2 weeks ago for example that we should see something in 7 days time. Nothing happened.
Gillet has said he'd bring snop doggy if rafa wanted him, then 3 weeks later said we would not spend like drunken sailors.
This tells me they underestimate what it takes to makes deals happen on this contintent.

And I never said our current ambition is low. it's quite clear what they are.
But those ambition ill match the actions like going after players like Benayoun.

1) We are under new ownership and the need to sign players before August has been firmly recognised by them AND Rafa.

2) IMO your valuations of positions are excessive with the exception of a striker. It is perfectly feasible that we can sign two class wingers for between £10 and £15m.

3) No top class falair player? Is Gerrard not top class with a bit of flair? Garcia may be inconsistent but he has a lot of flair. I agree, we need a couple of flair players, but that is not to say we don't already have some creativity.

4) We don't know if Benayoun is the only player we've bid on. Benayoun can be a good replacement for Gonzales and Zenden, add to that 2 top wingers and a striker and we're well on our way IMO.

5) Saying we won't spend like a drunken sailor is something I'd expect every single chairman in the world to say about transfers, it is common sense that you buy players with significant consideration.

6) You say you don't think Benayoun will be the summit of our spending, yet you also say he is a mark of our ambition - two contradicting statements.

1) We are under new ownership, but we know very little what that means in reality when it comes to transfers.
It does mean a new stadium. If it means better marketing and transfer spending nobody knows.
So far Rafa has gone out and warned the owners of delays beacuse it is important to get transfer done early.
That was almost 1 month ago. The owners has said alot but nothing has happened at all. I can only take that as it isn't going exactly as Rafa wants right now. We are under more pressure than Chelski this summer since they already have spent alot the last few summers. We have spent very little in comparison and not really moved any steps forward with the signings we have made.
All signings will not be made in August, but I fear too many will.

2) I don't see my valuation excessive. Finding 2 top class wingers at 10-15m would be amazing business in my eyes.
Only players sold or for sale so far has been valuated at 15m+.

And I don't see Anderson, Nani, Malouda, Hargreaves as something exceptional. I haven't seen any winger of top quality out there rumored or in areport go for 10-15m.
I might be surprised, but I can only go on what I've seen so far in the transfer dealings.

3) If there is something Gerrard do miss it's flair and creativity. That's why he doesn't fit to play as an attack mid opearting behind the strikers threading passes and dribbling past player. Gerrard uses his engine and strength together with superb long range passing and shot as his weapons. Not flair at all. Garcia does have flair, but he has so many holes in his game I don't see him a dependable regular starter.
I think the creativity i desperately lacking in the squad.
Kewell is a good flari player, but way to unreliable and I feel he has lost a step of pace.

4)I am not contradicting the fact that benayoun won't be our only signing. What I am saying is that we already have many squad players and that benayoun add very little to our team.
It's the only confirmed bid we have made so far. I said confirmed!
Benayoun is just not a signing I see a need to spend 5m+ on.
Better to save the money and get some real quality.

5) True, but the point I was making was that he said he'd buy any player Rafa wanted if it helped the team, be it snoggy doggy or whoever. After 2 weeks he goes and says we won't spend like drunken sailors. It still tells me that the mindset has changed and we won't get any player Rafa want if the price is too high(what that now might ever be)

6) I say exactly that benayoun if signed will not be the summit of our spending. But it is not contradicting to say that
going after such a player makes no real sense to me.
A club going for the trophies should not go for players of his standard. I don't see what wasting 5m+ will accomplish.
A player that has never proven he'll make it in the CL and top competiton in the league.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:37 am

Penguins wrote:1) We are under new ownership, but we know very little what that means in reality when it comes to transfers.
It does mean a new stadium. If it means better marketing and transfer spending nobody knows.
So far Rafa has gone out and warned the owners of delays beacuse it is important to get transfer done early.
That was almost 1 month ago. The owners has said alot but nothing has happened at all. I can only take that as it isn't going exactly as Rafa wants right now. We are under more pressure than Chelski this summer since they already have spent alot the last few summers. We have spent very little in comparison and not really moved any steps forward with the signings we have made.
All signings will not be made in August, but I fear too many will.

2) I don't see my valuation excessive. Finding 2 top class wingers at 10-15m would be amazing business in my eyes.
Only players sold or for sale so far has been valuated at 15m+.

And I don't see Anderson, Nani, Malouda, Hargreaves as something exceptional. I haven't seen any winger of top quality out there rumored or in areport go for 10-15m.
I might be surprised, but I can only go on what I've seen so far in the transfer dealings.

3) If there is something Gerrard do miss it's flair and creativity. That's why he doesn't fit to play as an attack mid opearting behind the strikers threading passes and dribbling past player. Gerrard uses his engine and strength together with superb long range passing and shot as his weapons. Not flair at all. Garcia does have flair, but he has so many holes in his game I don't see him a dependable regular starter.
I think the creativity i desperately lacking in the squad.
Kewell is a good flari player, but way to unreliable and I feel he has lost a step of pace.

4)I am not contradicting the fact that benayoun won't be our only signing. What I am saying is that we already have many squad players and that benayoun add very little to our team.
It's the only confirmed bid we have made so far. I said confirmed!
Benayoun is just not a signing I see a need to spend 5m+ on.
Better to save the money and get some real quality.

5) True, but the point I was making was that he said he'd buy any player Rafa wanted if it helped the team, be it snoggy doggy or whoever. After 2 weeks he goes and says we won't spend like drunken sailors. It still tells me that the mindset has changed and we won't get any player Rafa want if the price is too high(what that now might ever be)

6) I say exactly that benayoun if signed will not be the summit of our spending. But it is not contradicting to say that
going after such a player makes no real sense to me.
A club going for the trophies should not go for players of his standard. I don't see what wasting 5m+ will accomplish.
A player that has never proven he'll make it in the CL and top competiton in the league.

1) Of course we know if the owner intend to spend on transfers and marketing. That is part of their business plan, they have said that in plenty of interviews. If they don't try and grow the club it would not be a worthwhile investment. That is just common sense.

2) The owners have re-signed 4 players, established a youth setup agreement with MTK Hungary and are in the process of delivering a new stadium. Is that not work? On top of that, they are seeking to sign players for Rafa, if by the end of July we have signed nobody then come back on here and moan. Just because a few negative media reports pop up shouldn't mean you go on the pessimism pills.

3) We disagree on valuations even when Rafa said there are players out there who we are looking to sign for between £10-15m. Robben wasn't mega bucks, £12m? Ronaldo £12m? There are players out there who are feasibly within that price range - you just don't consider them adept.

4) If Gerrard lacks flair, I give up. He is not a dribbler, he is an all round fantastic midfield player who can thread balls through, his range if passing is endless, he is virtually complete.

5) Benayoun will not be the summit of our spending, we have plenty of capacity to bring in other top players. Would £3m or so really limit our budget? Is it not conceivable that he could be a decent replacement for Zenden and Gonzales?

6) "True, but the point I was making was that he said he'd buy any player Rafa wanted if it helped the team, be it snoggy doggy or whoever. After 2 weeks he goes and says we won't spend like drunken sailors. It still tells me that the mindset has changed and we won't get any player Rafa want if the price is too high(what that now might ever be)"

How has the midset changed, there is plenty of time left to sign snoogy doggy, it's rubbish to suggest he has somehow changed his plans, do you not think they have a comprehensive plan that has already been thought out?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:02 am

Hicks adds new exec to look after his sports interests
Written by Jim Boardman
Tuesday, 19 June 2007
Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks has promoted a member of his Hicks Sports Group into a newly created role, which will include some involvement with the running of the Reds. Hicks Sports Group is owned by Hicks Holdings.

Casey Shilts, 39, is to become chief operating office of the group, which is the holding company that owns Texas Rangers, the Dallas Stars and Hicks' half of Liverpool FC (through another holding company).

According to reports from the States, Shilts (no relation to the oft-sung about Peter Shilton), will be overseeing operations of the three sports sides (or franchises) on a day-to-day basis - including Liverpool FC. As part of the web of companies owned by Hicks, she'll also be sitting on the board of Center Operation Co which runs the American Airlines Center (used by the Dallas Stars). She'll also be taking charge of running Hick's golf course and hotel development in a place called Bariloche in Argentina.

Speaking about her new job, Shilts said: "The biggest challenge will be the global breadth of all of Hicks Holdings and being able to manage between what Tom has in Liverpool to what we're doing in Argentina as well as the important teams we have here." As for working with the executives of each team, including Rick Parry of course, she said her intention is to "cross-fertilize those businesses so we can learn from each other."

In the background to this appointment is a rumour that Hicks has fallen out with Gillett, his co-owner of Liverpool. Some rumours claim the fall-out is over money, others say it is over Hicks' perception that his half of the partnership is being pushed to one side, because Foster Gillett, and not one of Hicks' sons, will be getting the dominant role in the Anfield boardroom this autumn. It's this alleged row that is said to be holding back funds for Rafa Benitez. Perhaps this new appointment will help smooth things over, although of course the opposite could yet happen.

Hicks says that Shilts was an obvious choice for the role of coordinating both the Hicks' sports interests and various building projects (including of course the new Anfield stadium), thanks to her experience on the £300m Glorypark development, adjacent to the Texas Rangers' stadium in Arlington. Hicks said: "She brought it all together. We made tremendous progress with the city and in the project, and she led all of our efforts doing that." The Glorypark building work is set to begin this year and will open in two years, with retail, office and entertainment properties.

A similar project is coming soon for Shilts. Planned to be next to the Dallas Stars' home is an office, residential and hotel project to be called Champions Park. This is still at the design stage and it seems Shilts is tasked with getting city leaders on side.

Is Hicks getting bored with his sports teams? Hicks is reported to have said Shilts' appointment allows him to focus more of his time on his private-equity dealings. He has just bought 40% of SafeMed, a healthcare software company and he also announced plans to try and raise £200m dollars to buy more companies.

Shilts herself has been a Hicks employee since 2000 after being poached from the Coca-Cola Company.

by **mr_weed_80@hotmail.com** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:12 pm

nothing has happened yet bcos rafas havin a W*nk, for godsakes give him a minute, how would you like it if you were rushed

by **Paul C** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:04 pm

mr_weed_80@hotmail.com wrote:nothing has happened yet bcos rafas havin a W*nk, for godsakes give him a minute, how would you like it if you were rushed

What a muppet :no

by **Penguins** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:57 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Penguins wrote:1) We are under new ownership, but we know very little what that means in reality when it comes to transfers.
It does mean a new stadium. If it means better marketing and transfer spending nobody knows.
So far Rafa has gone out and warned the owners of delays beacuse it is important to get transfer done early.
That was almost 1 month ago. The owners has said alot but nothing has happened at all. I can only take that as it isn't going exactly as Rafa wants right now. We are under more pressure than Chelski this summer since they already have spent alot the last few summers. We have spent very little in comparison and not really moved any steps forward with the signings we have made.
All signings will not be made in August, but I fear too many will.

2) I don't see my valuation excessive. Finding 2 top class wingers at 10-15m would be amazing business in my eyes.
Only players sold or for sale so far has been valuated at 15m+.

And I don't see Anderson, Nani, Malouda, Hargreaves as something exceptional. I haven't seen any winger of top quality out there rumored or in areport go for 10-15m.
I might be surprised, but I can only go on what I've seen so far in the transfer dealings.

3) If there is something Gerrard do miss it's flair and creativity. That's why he doesn't fit to play as an attack mid opearting behind the strikers threading passes and dribbling past player. Gerrard uses his engine and strength together with superb long range passing and shot as his weapons. Not flair at all. Garcia does have flair, but he has so many holes in his game I don't see him a dependable regular starter.
I think the creativity i desperately lacking in the squad.
Kewell is a good flari player, but way to unreliable and I feel he has lost a step of pace.

4)I am not contradicting the fact that benayoun won't be our only signing. What I am saying is that we already have many squad players and that benayoun add very little to our team.
It's the only confirmed bid we have made so far. I said confirmed!
Benayoun is just not a signing I see a need to spend 5m+ on.
Better to save the money and get some real quality.

5) True, but the point I was making was that he said he'd buy any player Rafa wanted if it helped the team, be it snoggy doggy or whoever. After 2 weeks he goes and says we won't spend like drunken sailors. It still tells me that the mindset has changed and we won't get any player Rafa want if the price is too high(what that now might ever be)

6) I say exactly that benayoun if signed will not be the summit of our spending. But it is not contradicting to say that
going after such a player makes no real sense to me.
A club going for the trophies should not go for players of his standard. I don't see what wasting 5m+ will accomplish.
A player that has never proven he'll make it in the CL and top competiton in the league.

1) Of course we know if the owner intend to spend on transfers and marketing. That is part of their business plan, they have said that in plenty of interviews. If they don't try and grow the club it would not be a worthwhile investment. That is just common sense.

2) The owners have re-signed 4 players, established a youth setup agreement with MTK Hungary and are in the process of delivering a new stadium. Is that not work? On top of that, they are seeking to sign players for Rafa, if by the end of July we have signed nobody then come back on here and moan. Just because a few negative media reports pop up shouldn't mean you go on the pessimism pills.

3) We disagree on valuations even when Rafa said there are players out there who we are looking to sign for between £10-15m. Robben wasn't mega bucks, £12m? Ronaldo £12m? There are players out there who are feasibly within that price range - you just don't consider them adept.

4) If Gerrard lacks flair, I give up. He is not a dribbler, he is an all round fantastic midfield player who can thread balls through, his range if passing is endless, he is virtually complete.

5) Benayoun will not be the summit of our spending, we have plenty of capacity to bring in other top players. Would £3m or so really limit our budget? Is it not conceivable that he could be a decent replacement for Zenden and Gonzales?

6) "True, but the point I was making was that he said he'd buy any player Rafa wanted if it helped the team, be it snoggy doggy or whoever. After 2 weeks he goes and says we won't spend like drunken sailors. It still tells me that the mindset has changed and we won't get any player Rafa want if the price is too high(what that now might ever be)"

How has the midset changed, there is plenty of time left to sign snoogy doggy, it's rubbish to suggest he has somehow changed his plans, do you not think they have a comprehensive plan that has already been thought out?

1) Ya, we know they will spend on transfers and marketing.
But we know nothing about how much or about the time-table for such things.
Right now the club is waiting for Foster Gillet to arrive, which will take a few month due to work permit.
Nobody knows what the budget are exactly as the "player-specific" bull is being mooted. What the heck is that?
Tell Rafa a number so he knows what he can spend.
And then it's pretty important to mention that the owners will fork up over 200 million on a stadium and 100 million to clear the debt.
Look at Arsenal after they built their stadium. How much money have they spent since then?
Since the waiting list is very long for season tickets there will be little problem selling out the stadium anyway.

2) Sigh, 4 players?
2 unknown hungarian players. When did Hungary last produce a top class player?
Voronin and Lucas will probably have zero impact on the team this season. Bit part players in my eyes next season.
And a youth setup agreement with an unknown hungarian club mean little to me and has 0 impact next season.
I am not moaning. I did say we will buy players, but not of the quality and in the price range some think.
Well, if 100% of all media reports say the same thing, there just has to be something in it.Where there is smoke there is....

3) Ya, we definitly disagree about valuations.
The transfer world is changing all the time.
3-4 years ago Ronaldo and Robben cost that. They would never have cost that today.
Manure set the bar and now every club want 15-20 million for their wingers. I have seen no excpetion so far in the summer.
Neither from players bought or from players that have been bid for.
13 million rejected for mancini is no surprise at all. Would cost at least as much as Malouda who Lyon insist they want 17m for.
Same with Simao and Alves. Since we were after those players, the price tags have gone up by a few million.

4) If there is something gerrard lacks it's definitly flair and dribbling skills and the ability to work in tight quarters.
He is a very direct player and almost never uses skill to get past a player but uses his speed and drive to do that.
I can't understand how you can see gerrard as flair player honestly.

5) Well, I think we have Riise, Aurelio, Kewell, Garcia who can all play out there and I much rather spend it on a real top class left winger instead. If we did that there would be no need for a player like Benayoun.
£3m? He would cost twice as much at least.
And I see no need to replace Zenden with kewell back and a top class winger instead of Gonzales would be a better
replacement for him. Only if garcia left I might see some use to Benayoun.

6)Ya, I believe they have a comprehensive plan that has been thought out, but I believe that plan is not working exactly as it was thought from the beginning.
Still no panicking yet, but remeber what that Rafa said the day after the CL final.
How extremely important it was to move fast in the transfer dealings. If this is fast then I don't want to know what slow means.
And he also said that since we were 20+ pts behind manure we needed to take 2 steps if manure took 1.
Right now Manure has taken 3 steps and we have taken 1/2 a step.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:00 pm

Penguins wrote:2) Sigh, 4 players?
2 unknown hungarian players. When did Hungary last produce a top class player?
Voronin and Lucas will probably have zero impact on the team this season. Bit part players in my eyes next season.
And a youth setup agreement with an unknown hungarian club mean little to me and has 0 impact next season.
I am not moaning. I did say we will buy players, but not of the quality and in the price range some think.
Well, if 100% of all media reports say the same thing, there just has to be something in it.Where there is smoke there is....

1) an unknown hungarian club like you said. so that means you dont know anything bout it much as much as the people at lfc does.

2) just like many clubs have done, liverpool are having youth setup agreements with other clubs so they can be feeder clubs. we can send our youngsters on loan while their promising players can also come and train with our team.

3) when did hungary produce a top class player? if everyone were to have such a mindset, players such as sheva, hleb, chivu, kewell, etc wouldnt be discovered. point is, just cuz a country doesnt have a high reputation in soccer or values cricket or ice hockey as their #1 sport, doesnt mean all of the players are not good enough.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:34 pm

Penguins wrote:1) Ya, we know they will spend on transfers and marketing.
But we know nothing about how much or about the time-table for such things.
Right now the club is waiting for Foster Gillet to arrive, which will take a few month due to work permit.
Nobody knows what the budget are exactly as the "player-specific" bull is being mooted. What the heck is that?
Tell Rafa a number so he knows what he can spend.
And then it's pretty important to mention that the owners will fork up over 200 million on a stadium and 100 million to clear the debt.
Look at Arsenal after they built their stadium. How much money have they spent since then?
Since the waiting list is very long for season tickets there will be little problem selling out the stadium anyway.

2) Sigh, 4 players?
2 unknown hungarian players. When did Hungary last produce a top class player?
Voronin and Lucas will probably have zero impact on the team this season. Bit part players in my eyes next season.
And a youth setup agreement with an unknown hungarian club mean little to me and has 0 impact next season.
I am not moaning. I did say we will buy players, but not of the quality and in the price range some think.
Well, if 100% of all media reports say the same thing, there just has to be something in it.Where there is smoke there is....

3) Ya, we definitly disagree about valuations.
The transfer world is changing all the time.
3-4 years ago Ronaldo and Robben cost that. They would never have cost that today.
Manure set the bar and now every club want 15-20 million for their wingers. I have seen no excpetion so far in the summer.
Neither from players bought or from players that have been bid for.
13 million rejected for mancini is no surprise at all. Would cost at least as much as Malouda who Lyon insist they want 17m for.
Same with Simao and Alves. Since we were after those players, the price tags have gone up by a few million.

4) If there is something gerrard lacks it's definitly flair and dribbling skills and the ability to work in tight quarters.
He is a very direct player and almost never uses skill to get past a player but uses his speed and drive to do that.
I can't understand how you can see gerrard as flair player honestly.

5) Well, I think we have Riise, Aurelio, Kewell, Garcia who can all play out there and I much rather spend it on a real top class left winger instead. If we did that there would be no need for a player like Benayoun.
£3m? He would cost twice as much at least.
And I see no need to replace Zenden with kewell back and a top class winger instead of Gonzales would be a better
replacement for him. Only if garcia left I might see some use to Benayoun.

6)Ya, I believe they have a comprehensive plan that has been thought out, but I believe that plan is not working exactly as it was thought from the beginning.
Still no panicking yet, but remeber what that Rafa said the day after the CL final.
How extremely important it was to move fast in the transfer dealings. If this is fast then I don't want to know what slow means.
And he also said that since we were 20+ pts behind manure we needed to take 2 steps if manure took 1.
Right now Manure has taken 3 steps and we have taken 1/2 a step.

Ya?

Ich bin not German.

1) Player specific is player specific, it's a common sense approach used by most owners, just like Shinawatra said today in an interview. If it's £50m it's £50m - it depends on the market. The Arsenal comparison is incompatible since they don't have multi-billionaire backers, Wenger doesn't want to spend £50m on players anyway - if you can't see that then you need to check up on a few things.

2) You belittle Hungarian talent, nationality is irrelevant, if they're good enough they're good enough. Puskas good enough for you? Florian Albert? István Nyers? A youth setup is very important for the future, if you are so short sighted, fine, get back to championship manager. Inter Milan have just signed a player who came through the MTK Hungary youth setup.

3) You say Lucas will be a bit part player, even when you yourself said he will settle for nothing less than first team football.

4) I can't wait until the end of August, please don't disappear by then.

5) You know little about Gerrard. I never said he was a "flair" player, I said he has flair. Get that right. Tell me how many more centre mids in his style are "flair" players? He has flair, if he didn't have flair he wouldn't be one of the best midfielders in the world - and yes he does go past players sometimes.

6) Riise is a left back, Aurelio is a left back, Garcia is NOT a left winger, Kewell gets injured too much, Zenden and Gonzales are off. No need for a back up? Think again, IF IF IF IF IF IF we sign Benayoun anyway. £3m - £6m the height of our spending? Clearly not.

7) How you reach the conclusion that their plan it is not working is beyond numptieness. Re-signing our key players, getting the stadium plans organised, striking youth set-ups in America and Hungary. Sure, it's not working :no

.

8) Once again I can't wait for the end of August.

by **Penguins** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:49 pm

Sorry, Ya=yes=yup

1) For me player specific is way too vague in my opinion.
100 times more easier to know what kind of budget you have and gives a better overview of spending in and out instead of "player specific". Creates more questions than answers.

2) I know youth development is vital and that getting some players through your own youth system is vital.
But what does that do right now? these things will have an effect in 5 years or longer. Shall we wust wait until then?

3) Well, if we are going to keep Momo also then unfortunately Lucas is going to be wasting away on the bench or the reserve team. It would be a waste of 8m. And I don't believe all of a sudden he'll be playing rw or lw.

4) I'm not saying he has 0 flair like Momo but we aren't talking about his "style" of midfielders. We need the flair "style" of midfielders and Gerrard isn't one. And we have none but Garcia who is way too frustrating.

5) Riise and Aurelio has player LM many times during last season and done reasonably well. I don't see them a only LB's. With Rafa's system Garcia often has been put out on the wings and he is left footed. What I'm trying to say is that all of them have player many games on LW.
I'd much rather spend 18 million on a top class LW and use kewell, Riise, Aurelio and garcia as backup than spend
11 million on a good LW and 6-7 million on Benayoun as backup, kewell, Riise, Aurelio and garcia also as backup.

6)Resigning players and organising the satium plans are all well and good, but once again I ask the question....
How does that improve the team for next season compared to the team that was 21 pts behind?
The stadium work and the resigning of players I see as everyday work and something I take for granted and not something I should be overly delighted has happened.
If those elemtary things isn't taking care of it would had been a scandal, no less. The stadium was a condition to take over the club and extending contracts is something natural to keep the base of the team. But we have nothing to improve our current squad right now!

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:12 pm

Point for point:

1) Do you really think Gillett and Hicks are going to come out with a specific figure in public, they obviously have a plan as to what they can afford and cannot afford, Rafa will know this, the media THINK they know this but they know sweet fa all about the figures. It's called business, you don't reveal your financial plans to the world.

2) Obviously we are going to sign players now, what do you think Rafa, Hicks and Gillett have been saying since they took over. Words to the effect of "we need to develop our young players and introduce one or two star players to compliment the existing team". That work is ONGOING and I trust them to do so. You can't officially sign a player until July 1s't any way! There is work in the pipeline.

3) You have your opinion that 5 midfielders is too many, I have mine. Chelsea have more midfielders than us, Mancs have signed Hargreaves, Arsenal have I don't know how many mids. It's part of the game, Lucas is no Emerson, he's a young kid. There are plenty of games, probably injuries and probably different strategies where different players will be required. Why do you think Rafa has been saying our squad doesn't have enough depth for a whole season - he obviously feels that are is key.

4) We need flair players but ones who are effective, not ones who can balance the ball on their right eyelash. We need wingers and a striker/s to be more specific.

5) You assume that the cost of a player at £18m is better than one at £11m, it's player specific FFS!!!! If we can get Mancini for £15m and Benayoun for £3m that equals exactly the same as what you suggest. It depends on the market.

6) You avoid the point on the new owners' plans. It is a LONG TERM plan.

" but I believe that plan is not working exactly as it was thought from the beginning."

How is this plan not working out? What EXACTLY has not gone to plan?
From what I've seen it is going pretty smoothly. Transfers, transfers, transfers is all you think about. It is reported this...., it is reported that.... blah fecking blah.

You assume no work is going to be done to sign players based on f.a. evidence, I'll repeat, you CANNOT officially unveil or complete the registration of a player until July 1st. 'kin hell
what don't you understand about this? We are actively seeking to sign players, by all accounts there have been bids put on top class players - Mancini for example.

by **Penguins** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:10 am

1) Well, since there is no way of knowing, I can hope that Rafa knows the numbers.

2) They have said alot. But so far no new players. Only evidence to go after. I trust Rafa and for me the Jury is still out on Gillet and Hicks. 1st of July is just a date, nothing else.
Only means the players officially switches clubs that date.
The actual sigings and dealings can be done anytime, anyday before. And the sooner the better, cause once preseason starts for the teams around Europe, they become less inclined to sell and wants to focus on the season ahead.
Lyon as an example has said once preseason starts, no player will leave. That to me tells me that we can't wait forever and believe in that ongoing "holy" plan.

3) Normally 5 CM is workable but this isn't a normal situation at Liverpool. Having something like 3 top class and 2 backups like we had with Biscan and hamann worked cause the latter 2 knew they would jump in only when Alonso, Gerrard and Momo were injured or needed rest. They were ok with that and did very well when called upon.
Now the situation is very different. All 5 see themselves as starting and would be very unhappy if they were on the bench in the big and important games. Lucas might have the biggest patience but a player so highly touted at such a young age will pretty soon be disgruntled if he sits on the bench too much. gerrard is a worl class cm and he'll be guaranted to play every important game as he has always done. Alonso is a top class cm and sees himself as a starter and after signing the 5 year contract would expect nothing else. Mascherano, also a top class cm, was a revelation last season and just stole a cm spot through some great consistency. After figuring in every important game until the seasons end, he will expect to be starting the same games.
The there is Momo, a young good cm, who started and played as a starter for 1 1/2 seasons and got used to having his spot in the centre of the field. Then Masch came in and took that spot. He also showed his disspointment on and off the field and will be expecting to have his place back next season.
Competition is good, but when no one wants to even hear the word back up I feel it will be a problem sooner rather than later cause only 2 can play each game. And 60 games isn't enough to keep all happy especially since 1 spot out of 2 is reserved for gerrard.

4) Not going to argue with that. I still believe we have none of top quality.

5) That is common sense. if you pay 18 million instead of 11 for a player, more often than not the player for 18 million will have more quality. Chelski didn't win the league twice in a row cause they spend cheap. They spend alot and increase the chance to get better quality. And it has even if the have made mistakes.

6) I am all for a long term plan and I can live with that there will be no title challenge next season if it helps long term.
But how many liverpool fans will be happy with that?

And the measuring stock especially during the summer is how well you do with transfers. it's the only real period when you have a chance to really improve the team with new players.
Signing contracts, outlay plans etc can be done anytime during the year.
These couple of months is first and foremost about improving the team with new players.

7)I say once again, 1st of July is just a DATE, nothing else.
When that date arrives you shold hopefully already have the players wrapped up and standing outside Anfield.
You get players before 1 July. Then they officially become Liverpool players that date.
And I'm sure we make bids, it's just that those players Rafa thought would cost 10-15 like Malouda, Mancini etc cost 15-20m.

by **crillylfc** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:30 am

2 much talk...2 little action!!same as EVERY year!!

by **LFC2007** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:56 am

1) N/A

2) The 1st of July is the official opening of the transfer window, it does mean something. We could have deals already sealed but NOT announced until legal work etc... is completed. You have no trust, no faith and no patience and little consideration for the work of bringing in players.

3) I can't be fecked to go over the midfield again, it's clear in my mind. Panic stations! we're TOO covered in central midfield - the most demanding area of the pitch. I despair. Rafa doesn't have a clue what's going on with our midfield, he brought Lucas in for no reason, just to pi.ss the existing midfielders off. We'll have no injuries, we'll get knocked out of all the cups in the opening rounds, and Sissoko and Lucas will never be used. :no

4) N/A

5) You miss the point time and time again over the value of a player, it is not set in stone that we MUST pay £18m for a midfielder. If we can get Mancini for £15m and Benayoun for £3m, it equals the same, except we'd have more cover and better options.

6) What you say on point 6 is beyond the numptieness of uncle Rodney Trotter. A long term plan does NOT equal no title challenge next season, are you so naive as to neglect that it's a combination of getting things in place for the long term whilst investing in the short term in our first team.

We didn't re-sign the four first team players during the season because of UCL commitments and for our focus to be solely on winning the competition, that is why it was necessary to do so afterwards. It is the longest running competition.

7) We don't know how much they are going to cost, you believe the cra,p from the media and form a judgement that Rafa has underestimated the transfer market somehow.

Finally, I can't wait until the end of August. I'm going to come back here, everything except armageddon being well, and have a bloody good laugh.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:05 pm

Let's ignore the source for a moment and take on board the wise words below--particularly the bit about all of the ceaseless work that goes on behind the scenes to make a transfer (especially a big transfer) happen:

"...then as soon as the takeover goes through, City fans will be expecting big-money transfers within days. But it doesn't work like that - as impatient fans of clubs like Liverpool and Aston Villa are finding out now.

Supporters think that you just because you have money you can buy anyone you like - as if there were 50 strikers available and you were the only club interested. You can't just conjure up players and if you're Martin O'Neill or Rafa Benitez or Arsene Wenger, you don't want to be buying players in just for the sake of doing something.

People shouldn't mistake lack of transfer activity for lack of activity - every club will be working tirelessly to get the right players. The managers will be on the phone to scouts, agents, other clubs, desperately trying to get the right footballers for the right money.

The football season is like a wave breaking into shore - it's a long way out at the moment but as we get into July, the wave will be growing and getting closer to land. By the beginning of August the waves will be crashing back onto the shore and we'll be saying 'hey, hey, we're back'. For now, just enjoy the calm."

Okay, now that you've digested the wisdom of these words, I'll tell you who said them.

Wait for it...

Our good buddy Andy Gray! He's a bit of a t.wat I'll admit, but sometimes he talks sense. :nod

by **The Grudge** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:44 pm

Very true!

Im sure theres a lot going on that we dont know about behind the scenes.

What do some people expect Raffa to do?
Make a public announcement every time hes interested in a player?
Its crucial he keeps his cards very close to his chest if we dont want our potential signings to be hijacked at the last minute.
Another factor is that if LFC(or any big club) are being touted all over the press as wanting a certain player we begin to look desperate,this tends to push the asking price up a lot before any discussion even takes place.....Hardly good business!

The club albeit slowly are playing the game right.We have been assured that we will sign new players and we all know it will happen.
Its just a matter of getting things done quietly with minimum fuss and out of the spotlight if its atal possible.

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