Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:28 pm

Bad Bob wrote:If we're after Barry to play LM I'm in full support. If, however, we're after him to provide yet another option in the centre of midfield, I think the money could be much better spent elsewhere.

On the subject of this Barry vs. Alonso debate, I can't help but think the discussion misses the point. Even if Barry were better than Alonso (I obviously don't think so, BTW, but for the sake of argument...) would it not just be treading water to replace one very good CM with another? We have several identified weak areas currently in the squad (wide positions, 2nd striker) and so swapping like for like in our strongest position is hardly the step forward that we all acknowledge is needed this summer, is it?

it could be barry-replaces-alonso-swaps with-a player for our weak position... :;):

by **Thingy** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:34 pm

7_Kewell wrote:
Thingy wrote:Why does Henry come into this?

because some people here have obviously been drinking all weekend

Are you one of them?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:06 pm

Bad Bob wrote:If we're after Barry to play LM I'm in full support. If, however, we're after him to provide yet another option in the centre of midfield, I think the money could be much better spent elsewhere.

On the subject of this Barry vs. Alonso debate, I can't help but think the discussion misses the point. Even if Barry were better than Alonso (I obviously don't think so, BTW, but for the sake of argument...) would it not just be treading water to replace one very good CM with another? We have several identified weak areas currently in the squad (wide positions, 2nd striker) and so swapping like for like in our strongest position is hardly the step forward that we all acknowledge is needed this summer, is it?

tactical genius Benitez eh then bob?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:10 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:yeah it's england for god's sake...the same england that because of barry, hargreaves (united) and lampard (chelsea) can't play for. last time i checked united and chelsea were above us.

Well by that logic, Newcastle should be above us because Owen plays for England...

Grow up lad, eh?

do you miss the point to every post other than the ones that say "benitez is a genius"?

the point I was blantantly making is Barry is keeping out players of sides above us for the national side to show that he does have the quality to play for this club. Somebody (can't remember who and can't be arsed to look to be quite frank) said Barry isn't good enough to play for this club and he doesn't care if Barry's keeping Hargreaves/Lampard/Carrick out of the england starting 11 because it's only england.

Now do you understand...was I saying every side with an england international should be above us? No quite clearly I wasn't. The point was quite simple that somebody who can play for a middle of the road side like Villa, yet can still keep out the best that top sides have to offer, is someone who obviously has talent.

by **SupitsJonF** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:06 am

Bad Bob wrote:
If we're after Barry to play LM I'm in full support. If, however, we're after him to provide yet another option in the centre of midfield, I think the money could be much better spent elsewhere.

On the subject of this Barry vs. Alonso debate, I can't help but think the discussion misses the point. Even if Barry were better than Alonso (I obviously don't think so, BTW, but for the sake of argument...) would it not just be treading water to replace one very good CM with another? We have several identified weak areas currently in the squad (wide positions, 2nd striker) and so swapping like for like in our strongest position is hardly the step forward that we all acknowledge is needed this summer, is it?

"Why does Henry come into this?"

Maybe this is why?

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:21 am

Barry to reject record pay deal and join Benitez
By Sam Wallace
Tuesday, 6 May 2008

Liverpool are winning the battle to sign Gareth Barry with the player himself having made the decision to sign for Rafael Benitez's club this summer rather than agree a new contract at Aston Villa. Benitez is also close to signing the Birmingham City goalkeeper Maik Taylor as a back-up to Jose Reina.

The deal for the Aston Villa captain is set to prove the most complicated with the two clubs still at loggerheads over a fee, but Barry's wishes will, in all likelihood, force Villa into doing a deal eventually. The offer from Liverpool for Barry was valued at £10m although it was not an exclusively cash deal. In exchange for Barry, Liverpool were offering a choice of John Arne Riise, Jermaine Pennant or Scott Carson, who is currently on loan to Villa, plus an unspecified cash deal to make the value up to £10m.

Barry has two years left of his contract at Villa and would become the side's highest earner should he accept the deal on offer to him. However, he has decided after 11 years at Villa that a move to Anfield would be in his best interests even though he is likely to be asked by Benitez to fulfil a role on the left side of midfield and defence rather than in the centre – where he has established himself for England.

O'Neill dismissed the offer for Barry, which was faxed by Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry on Friday, as a "mish-mash of player exchanges concerning unnamed players". Unfortunately from Villa's perspective, the Liverpool player they would really like, Peter Crouch, who is out of contract next summer, was not among the players eventually offered to them in part-exchange.

Crouch's future is still uncertain after he was left out of the Liverpool squad to face Manchester City on Sunday even though the England striker was fit. It now appears that Crouch, Pennant, Riise – a target for Newcastle – and possibly Yossi Benayoun will all be allowed to leave in the summer. As well as signing the Borussia Dortmund full-back Philip Degen on a free transfer, Benitez will also move for Taylor.

Taylor, 36, is playing for a Birmingham team that is in the bottom three of the Premier League as they approach the last game of the season. He has been at Birmingham since 2003 where he originally went on loan from Fulham before signing. He lost his place in last season's team that came up from the Championship but won it back this season and has been a regular since.

Benitez only has the relatively untried Charles Itandje as a back-up for Reina. The signings of Barry and Taylor may not quicken the pulse of Liverpool fans but they demonstrate their manager's determination to do deals quickly and make major changes this summer.

Whether Benitez will be able to lay out on a player comparable to Fernando Torres will surely depend upon the ownership battle raging between George Gillett and Tom Hicks and Dubai International Capital who want to buy the Americans' shares. Nevertheless, with Crouch's future uncertain the Liverpool manager is facing the next season with a greater reliance on Torres than even this term.

by **laza** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:10 am

Bad Bob wrote:On the subject of this Barry vs. Alonso debate, I can't help but think the discussion misses the point. Even if Barry were better than Alonso (I obviously don't think so, BTW, but for the sake of argument...) would it not just be treading water to replace one very good CM with another? We have several identified weak areas currently in the squad (wide positions, 2nd striker) and so swapping like for like in our strongest position is hardly the step forward that we all acknowledge is needed this summer, is it?

Doesnt miss the point for me Bob

We moan and groaned about weakness on the flanks.

We have sold Sissoko and probably could have kept Didi for another season except he wasnt going to be given enough game time

Why are we tinkering with rolls royce of our squad when we have morris minors out on the flanks

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:47 am

s@int wrote:Benitez is also close to signing the Birmingham City goalkeeper Maik Taylor as a back-up to Jose Reina.

maik taylor? this can't be serious saint. i mean come on, maik taylor. a fella who's likely to retire in the near future, isn't that great anyway and for long periods of this season wasn't even first choice for Birmingham.

I heard we've been linked with Steve Harper (newcastle) as well as the back up keeper.

Maybe it's me but what I don't understand is what the bleeding heck is David Marting doing there then? We've got a keeper who can only gain experince from playing. We've got Intandje who's little less than useless anyway, but why waste money on Taylor/Harper/Kenny or any other keeper who's going to get as much match action as Martin would. If we're looking for a keeper as back up I'd rather look at Schmeical from City who according to his dad (peter if you didn't know) WILL leave city this summer or even Isaksson from City. Both would be better targets than Maik Taylor.

Schmeichal made 7 or so consecutive clean sheets at home this season didn't he? then he went on loan to cardiff who unless i'm mistaken are in the fa cup final. I'd rather take a punt on him than Taylor and if we can't get Schmeichal I'd rather we stuck with David Martin. If we have any realisitic ambition that he will be our number one keeper one day, why not let him be back up next year and let him learn off one of the best keepers around.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:12 am

Only reason I can think of is we are going for an experienced short term (1 season) keeper who will be quite happy sitting on the bench all season, while our young keepers are loaned out to gain experience.

by **Thingy** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:20 am

Why not have our reserve keeper as back up? Whoever it may be next year as we have several choices, the one who stays, cos I think as most do some will be loaned out, why dont we just put him on the bench? Say Martin for example. Why add a extra million or so to the wage bill for a player who we have several of a similiar quality of anyway?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:20 am

fee and wages will be key then saint. if b'ham charge us anything above 3 million i'd say forget it, and if taylor is asking for more than 20 grand a week i'd send him packin as well.

there's no point delving into a limited transfer kitty on players who aren't going to benifit us to much.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:23 am

Thingy wrote:Why not have our reserve keeper as back up? Whoever it may be next year as we have several choices, the one who stays, cos I think as most do some will be loaned out, why dont we just put him on the bench? Say Martin for example. Why add a extra million or so to the wage bill for a player who we have several of a similiar quality of anyway?

because benitez likes to have 4 players in a position that we are already strong in and leave our weaker areas alone

duh

don't you follow Liverpool

(cue the idiots to take this literally and jump down me throat...tick tock tick tock)

by **Thingy** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:45 am

So im a idioit for takin you seriously? Bit personal that GBJH.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:31 pm

I don't often agree with Lawro, the pundit, but I think his point is sound HERE
(except maybe the speculation about Alonso's motivations

)
--------------------
Gareth Barry is fine but Rafa Benitez needs match-winners

May 6 2008

by Mark Lawrenson, Liverpool Daily Post

IT’S not that Gareth Barry isn’t a good player and wouldn’t be a decent addition to Liverpool’s squad.

But he’s not the sort of player Liverpool urgently need to address the shortcomings that have added up to a disappointing season.

The most significant aspect of the pursuit of Barry is that it would appear to signal the end of Xabi Alonso.

I can’t really see any other reason for buying the Aston Villa captain, because would Barry necessarily have more impact than Alonso? I think that would just be like for like.

Alonso has fallen prey to the circumstances that often affect foreign players, especially ones who have a great first season and become such a big player for their team, as he undoubtedly did.

He isn’t the central focus any more and with his partner having a baby this season, a move back home to Spain seems more attractive to him all the time.

With Javier Mascherano in the midfield now, Alonso seems to have a lot of his work done for him and I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt a bit sidelined now. Maybe a little bit surplus after initially being the creative hub of the side.

Combine that with his personal circumstances and I think it’s an easy way out for him now – and I’m sure Barry would find it easy to slot into that role.

He also has the added advantage of being able to drift to the left and provide an extra outlet there if necessary.

Which is all very well – but what Rafael Benitez really needs more of is match-winners. And as valuable an addition as Barry could be, I don’t see him as one of those.

As well as new signings, Benitez needs the likes of Ryan Babel to come through for him, because at the moment it’s only Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard you can rely on to produce the moments that change the big games.

I feel that’s what ultimately cost them against Chelsea in the Champions League semi-final last week.

As I feared, Gerrard couldn’t get free from Claude Makelele and that’s a big problem when there aren’t players who can make a similar impact.

Chelsea are one of those teams who are so good in defence they don’t give you anything, you have to work extremely hard to get anywhere against them. You need that extra but of class and invention and it was all too rare when it mattered.

It all reflected the problems Benitez seems to face every year now. He has a good side easily good enough for the top four, but stripped to the bare bones they are a bit short of what it takes to compete consistently at Chelsea and Manchester United’s level.

And against those teams you get caught out if the squad isn’t good enough. This is something Benitez already knows, but I just think it emphasises the gulf that exists between teams at all levels of English football now. You’ve got your bottom eight, next eight then the top four – and even within that there’s still a long way to go to get from four to one.

That’s why you’ve got to have more than a couple of match-winners. If he had as many as Manchester United, for example, it wouldn’t matter if he left players out early on in the season to keep them fresh for the run-in.

That wouldn’t affect results and it would keep Liverpool in contention for the title when his top players would be sufficiently rested to keep up the challenge.

But at the moment rotating the squad in the early stages of the season doesn’t work. The quantity is fine but the quality is a different issue. At the moment Gareth Barry isn’t the answer to that – so it’s up to Benitez’s bosses to help him find plenty more this summer.

by **Owzat** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:37 pm

s@int wrote:Only reason I can think of is we are going for an experienced short term (1 season) keeper who will be quite happy sitting on the bench all season, while our young keepers are loaned out to gain experience.

We shouldn't be needing to use the keeper sub very often so there's something to be said for giving a young keeper the bench spot. The only time it becomes a problem is if Reina gets injured, and *touch wood* he's been pretty fortunate with regards injury.

I'd be tempted to keep Carson, give him some games a season in Carling Cup, FA Cup, some Champions League group games/qualifiers and the odd Premiership game or two. He may even impress enough to make a bid for number one, he should get 10-20 games a season. And who says if we're winning 3-0 early on that you can't take the keeper off? It may not rest outfield players, but why not if it keeps the keeper happy?

I don't favour signing 30+ year old keepers, great in terms of experience but hardly long term solutions. Didn't we sign Paul Jones, ex-Southtampon keeper for a while? They're better off in the lower divisions, doing a sturdy job for a club with ambitions but maybe not the resources to match eg a Stoke or Bristols City. We had Hooper here for years and other back-up keepers, I guess we'll never keep two top keepers happy forever but surely doing so for a season or two with someone like Carson is better than signing 35 year olds for a season. And fitness isn't entirely a non-issue with keepers, the older they are the more they lose their agility, reflexes etc. Same goes for us all !

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