Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:21 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
s@int wrote:I don't think the English "force" can be overstated at the moment. Not one English team was knocked out by continental teams in last years comp. We beat Arsenal, Chelsea beat us, and the mancs beat Chelsea in the final.

I will be very surprised if all four English clubs don't go through to the next round, even though they may all seem quite close calls on paper.

I will however be hoping that the mancs, Chelsea AND Arsenal go out, because I believe we would have an easier time in the next rounds against ANY of their opponents.

Well, it certainly will be an interesting litmus test for this theory of clear English superiority, mate. At the moment, none of the ties involving English teams are a foregone conclusion** and, while a sample size of four is hardly statistically significant, I would think that the odds would point to one of the English teams crashing out this week, were all things relatively equal between continental football and English football. Should all 4 win through, then, I think it just strengthens Mick's case that English football is clearly superior at the moment. What happens if one or even two don't make it, though? Will that require a rethink of the original theory or will it just be considered a fluke? It will be interesting (unless of course, we're the ones crashing out, in which case it will be disastrous).

**Arsenal and Chelsea both travel this week, looking to defend slender 1 goal leads. The Mancs, as we've discussed, have to win while we are in the best position, theoretically, as we can also go through with a 0-0 draw. I do predict a fair few squeaky bum moments for all 4 English teams this week, though, for whatever that's worth in terms of this discussion.

If I had to bet on one English team not progressing it would be Arsenal. They are having a strange season and while I think they are lucky in that they are playing the poorest of all the English opponents in Roma, its still a tough one to call.

So if they are the one that drops out I would think Mick's theory still holds good, if any of the other English sides should fall we may have to reassess just how good the prem and Mick's theory really is

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:01 am

JOSE MOURINHO is back — shooting from the lip and reminding the rest of English football how poor it is without the Special One.

The Inter Milan coach takes on Manchester United in the Champions League at Old Trafford on Wednesday in his first game in this country since he left Chelsea.

Mourinho reckons United have had it easy since he left Stamford Bridge 18 months ago. And he describes the lack of competition in the league as “embarrassing”. He dismisses Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal as no-hopers in the title race.

The Portuguese coach is CONFIDENT he would be above United in the table this season — and CERTAIN he will knock them out of Europe on Wednesday.

In a typical outburst Mourinho said: “Yes Manchester United are the best team in England, but you have to ask how good has the Premiership been since I left?

“Manchester United have won it with ease since I have gone because no manager has put a team together that can rival them But my teams always rival Manchester United and Sir Alex knows that.

“They are a great team, but if I was at a top club in England I think the title race might have been a lot closer this year.

“Chelsea have had no stability, Arsenal are nowhere and Liverpool threatened but I don’t think anybody really thought they were ever going to win it.

“I would not allow a team of mine to be so far behind. It is embarrassing in early March. Manchester United has a great squad, but are their players really that much better than Chelsea or Liverpool’s?

“I don’t think so. So something else must be the problem and somebody has to take responsibility for that. I beat Manchester with Chelsea and Porto. Now I am ready to beat them with Inter.

“I feel confident that if I had been at one of the big four clubs I would be close or maybe even above Manchester United"

by **bigmick** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:18 am

See, told you he was a nice bloke really :laugh:

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:21 am

I think you can be cocky when you have a record to back it up

by **bigmick** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:38 am

It's almost as if Mourinho is getting his digs in early just in case they beat the Mancs and draw one of the other English clubs. As I've said though, I give them a very very slim chance at Old Trafford, they'd be 4/1 to go through at least if I was making the book.

by **Madmax** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:04 am

s@int wrote:no manager has put a team together that can rival them But my teams always rival Manchester United and Sir Alex knows that.

Please manage us

by **Effes** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:57 pm

I think Mourinho is having those digs so they get posted on this thread.

by **andy_g** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:10 pm

bigmick wrote:It's almost as if Mourinho is getting his digs in early just in case they beat the Mancs and draw one of the other English clubs. As I've said though, I give them a very very slim chance at Old Trafford, they'd be 4/1 to go through at least if I was making the book.

that's exactly what i was thinking when i read this article on the guardian site just now. its like you said mick - he's going to ramp up the mind games and whatever other tactic he can think of during the run in to the game with the mancs. his opening gambit is pretty full on though, so i'm interested to see where he goes from here

he knows there will be other premiership clubs waiting if inter manage to get through so following his logic it makes perfect sense to start mentioning them in his general swipes.

to be honest, i find these recent comments among his more distasteful and arrogant ones. but then again i think to myself, maybe he's right - maybe if he was managing chelsea or arsenal or liverpool this season there really would be a closer title race. we'll never know for sure but it makes you wonder.

by **bigmick** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:42 pm

We'll never know on the closer title race thing Andy because even if he takes over at Chelsea or Man City next season, it's a new campaign so nothing will be proven.
On the evidence of what I've seen so far, I'm convinced that Chelsea would have been a lot closer had Hiddink been the manager all season though. They've got that togetherness, that never say die spirit and that absolute obsession for hunting down wins which is needed.

If you look at Scholari's first choice team, it included Deco. If you look at Hiddinks first choice team, it didn't but it does include Drogba. One of those players will always have spells within a season where matches pass him by in England (despite being a lovely footballer) while the other is absolutely made for the Premiership. I'm convinced that if Hiddink had been there all season, the Mancs wouldn't be having it all their own way now.

Back to Mourinho, I do think he is kind of side swiping at the other English clubs just in case, but also having a little jab at the Mancs, saying they are leading a relatively poor Premiership. Leaving aside my personal feelings on that for now, I don't find Mourinho's appraoch surprising at all. He will try to wring ever last ounce of advantage he can out of the pre-match twoing a frowing, simply because he knows Inter are massively up against it. All the English teams would beat that Inter team under normal circumstances (ie without Mourinho fecking about) no problem, and I'm sure he knows that. His only chance is for them to get every bounce, every decision, and exert every last smidge of pressure they can on the Mancs before the game.

I'm expecting just before the game some controversy. An outrageous statement on the number of penalites Man Utd don't concede, a revelation (hotly denied by Man Utd) in a press conference that he's already been told the Man Utd job is his when Ferguson retires or something like that. I think Inter might come out for the first ten minutes and throw caution to the wind, play with a centre half up top or something ridiculous. They'll try something, anything to get an edge. If they do come through, and then draw us :laugh:

. Feck me this thread will be like a war-zone once Mourinho starts then.

by **bigmick** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:27 pm

Well I'm going to toddle off to me scratcher in a mo, but I'll certainly have a look at the first half of the Man U game tomorrow morning and judge whether I can stomach any more from there. Inter are probably a similar level to Madrid I should think, and I really don't give them too much hope at Old Trafford.

The two things they have going for them over Madrid, are firstly that they drew the Home leg 0-0. Feck knows how having watched it, the mancs were absolutely all over them, only in the second half did Inter very briefly make a game of it. Anyway, it was/is 0-0 and unlike Madrid, Inter don't have to go looking for a goal. It probably won't make any difference, but that is one thing in their favour.

The second thing in their favour obviously is that they have Mourinho, whereas Madrid have Ramos. Can I just say at this point before people start frothing at the mouth, this is the Mourinho thread so I'm presuming it's OK to mention his name in here This is particularly the case as some members seem hell bent in mentioning his name on every thread on the main boards, with the obvious exception of threads in which his name should have been mentioned but wasn't. Now as to what the "Mourinho factor" is, we can only guess. Whatever it is though, I expect the mancs to win by a similar score to the one which we won by.

The media then will feast upon them beating the "clear leaders of Serie A" and Mourinho's tea,, adn completely forget about us.

Obviously I hope it doesn't happen, and that Mourinho's Inter win. Nearly all Liverpool fans will want that I guess.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:44 pm

Talking about "mind games", did you see the pics of Mourinho talking to Phil Neville yesterday? He may not get any useful info off Neville but its another little doubt placed in the back of the mancs minds

by **Sabre** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:53 pm

I randomly found an article that talks about Mourinho. I didn't pay it much attention myself, but since I know many members here enjoy articles, and it fits this topic, I thought: "Strange that it hasn't been posted!! I'm sure they'll like to read it".

From TeamTalk:

Ibrahimovic agent slams Mourinho
Mourinho took over Inter in the summer after Roberto Mancini was sacked despite leading the Nerazzurri to three successive Serie A titles.

Under the former Chelsea coach Inter are seven points clear at the top of the table and in the last 16 of the Champions League.

However, Mourinho has caused no end of controversy since his arrival in Italy and agent Mino Raiola does not believe the Portuguese coach will last long at the club.

"I'm certain that Mourinho is doing everything to go to Real Madrid," Raiola told Milan daily Il Giorno. "But he has to think about not repeating the disastrous buys he has made.

"He made (Inter president Massimo) Moratti throw away 45 million and he's winning with Mancini's squad.

"What more has he given to the team? He has only destroyed someone like Maxwell who I still believe is among the best defenders in Europe.

"If he had left Ibra out he would have already been sacked as happened at Chelsea.

"Mourinho has to change his attitude, he's doing more harm than good. And he only has Zlatan to thank for the fact they're where they're at."

Ibrahimovic is enjoying another excellent season in Serie A, where he has scored over 15 goals this campaign.

Raiola claims Barcelona and Real Madrid are interested in the 27-year-old, and insists that if the Sweden international decides to leave the San Siro there would be nothing the club could do.

"Real Madrid and Barcelona are ready to do everything to get him," he added. "In the Spanish league Ibra would score 40 goals a season and would certainly have more of a chance of winning the Ballon d'Or.

"I want something to be clear: if Zlatan decides to leave, it's certain he will leave.

"In all his transfers, from Ajax to Juve and Juve to Inter, it was always the player who enforced his own desire.

"That's not a warning, I only say that it's not up to others to decide for him."

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:07 am

s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
s@int wrote:I don't think the English "force" can be overstated at the moment. Not one English team was knocked out by continental teams in last years comp. We beat Arsenal, Chelsea beat us, and the mancs beat Chelsea in the final.

I will be very surprised if all four English clubs don't go through to the next round, even though they may all seem quite close calls on paper.

I will however be hoping that the mancs, Chelsea AND Arsenal go out, because I believe we would have an easier time in the next rounds against ANY of their opponents.

Well, it certainly will be an interesting litmus test for this theory of clear English superiority, mate. At the moment, none of the ties involving English teams are a foregone conclusion** and, while a sample size of four is hardly statistically significant, I would think that the odds would point to one of the English teams crashing out this week, were all things relatively equal between continental football and English football. Should all 4 win through, then, I think it just strengthens Mick's case that English football is clearly superior at the moment. What happens if one or even two don't make it, though? Will that require a rethink of the original theory or will it just be considered a fluke? It will be interesting (unless of course, we're the ones crashing out, in which case it will be disastrous).

**Arsenal and Chelsea both travel this week, looking to defend slender 1 goal leads. The Mancs, as we've discussed, have to win while we are in the best position, theoretically, as we can also go through with a 0-0 draw. I do predict a fair few squeaky bum moments for all 4 English teams this week, though, for whatever that's worth in terms of this discussion.

If I had to bet on one English team not progressing it would be Arsenal. They are having a strange season and while I think they are lucky in that they are playing the poorest of all the English opponents in Roma, its still a tough one to call.

So if they are the one that drops out I would think Mick's theory still holds good, if any of the other English sides should fall we may have to reassess just how good the prem and Mick's theory really is

I think Mick's theory passed its first test Bob.

Maybe not with flying colours , but still a grade A pass.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:34 am

s@int wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
s@int wrote:I don't think the English "force" can be overstated at the moment. Not one English team was knocked out by continental teams in last years comp. We beat Arsenal, Chelsea beat us, and the mancs beat Chelsea in the final.

I will be very surprised if all four English clubs don't go through to the next round, even though they may all seem quite close calls on paper.

I will however be hoping that the mancs, Chelsea AND Arsenal go out, because I believe we would have an easier time in the next rounds against ANY of their opponents.

Well, it certainly will be an interesting litmus test for this theory of clear English superiority, mate. At the moment, none of the ties involving English teams are a foregone conclusion** and, while a sample size of four is hardly statistically significant, I would think that the odds would point to one of the English teams crashing out this week, were all things relatively equal between continental football and English football. Should all 4 win through, then, I think it just strengthens Mick's case that English football is clearly superior at the moment. What happens if one or even two don't make it, though? Will that require a rethink of the original theory or will it just be considered a fluke? It will be interesting (unless of course, we're the ones crashing out, in which case it will be disastrous).

**Arsenal and Chelsea both travel this week, looking to defend slender 1 goal leads. The Mancs, as we've discussed, have to win while we are in the best position, theoretically, as we can also go through with a 0-0 draw. I do predict a fair few squeaky bum moments for all 4 English teams this week, though, for whatever that's worth in terms of this discussion.

If I had to bet on one English team not progressing it would be Arsenal. They are having a strange season and while I think they are lucky in that they are playing the poorest of all the English opponents in Roma, its still a tough one to call.

So if they are the one that drops out I would think Mick's theory still holds good, if any of the other English sides should fall we may have to reassess just how good the prem and Mick's theory really is

I think Mick's theory passed its first test Bob. Maybe not with flying colours , but still a grade A pass.

I think you're right, mate.

by **bigmick** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:15 am

Well they may have all got through, but I watched Arsenal in extra time and I thought they were shocking. On the evidence of that, with their current injuries they've got to be in the bracket of teams which you'd quite like to draw in the next round. I just had a look at the "the champions league, how hard is it?" thread, and it was only started in October last year or something. I first started going on about it at the begining of last season, as I remember it stirred up a lot of controversy at the time.

People interpreted it that I was diminishing Rafa's achievements in the competition (which of course I was :laugh:

) but the main point was that a little bit like the Premiership, i think the authorities ought to look at it to at least try and even out the playing field. Course everyone's onto it now, Platini's getting worried, Blatter's getting worried and the word is that something needs to be done. It does.

All solutions need time though, so the only thing left open to UEFA is to hope and prey that the English clubs draw each other in the quarters, then the winners of the two matches draw each other in the semi's. That should ensure it's Barca against a fairly tired English team in the final. Because this would overwhelmingly be UEFA's first choice of draw, I'm revising my prediction of earlier (saying we'd get Bayern) and predicting UEFA will get exactly as they would wish. I'm not saying the draws for major tournaments are bent or anything, but the draws for major tournaments are bent

.

Watch for the four English clubs getting royally shafted up the jaxy on Friday.

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