Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:10 am

Totally agree Peewee. If he was our manager and breaking record points totals whilst winding up the opposition we'd think it was funny as feck. The bloke is an absolutely top manager, and I can't help thinking that the REAL reason why many of Rafa's staunchest allies can't stand him is becasue their man suffers in comparison.

Mourinho doesn't do five year plans at the end of which you're pretty much back to where you started, and I think it's that more than any little jibes which really gets under the Rafa aplogists skins. Some of them might even have a little cheer FOR Man Utd during the week I reckon :nod

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:28 am

surely not mick, liverpool fans cheering for man utd, i feel all dirty at the thought

I am hoping inter go there and turn them over (i would be wanting this whoever their manager is). try and derail them a little.

by **bigmick** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:31 am

Perhaps I'm wrong Peewee who knows. I reckon one or two who have accused me of hoping we'll lose a few times over the last few years might just be keeping their fingers crossed that Mourinho doesn't do it again :nod

. I'm fully expecting some happy campers on this thread anyway if the Mancs spank Inter 4-0 or something. They'll barely be able to contain their glee :laugh:

.

Mind you, in the extremely unlikely event of Inter turning em over I'll be absolutely unstoppable :laugh:

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:39 am

bigmick wrote:Perhaps I'm wrong Peewee who knows. I reckon one or two who have accused me of hoping we'll lose a few times over the last few years might just be keeping their fingers crossed that Mourinho doesn't do it again . I'm fully expecting some happy campers on this thread anyway if the Mancs spank Inter 4-0 or something. They'll barely be able to contain their glee .

Mind you, in the extremely unlikely event of Inter turning em over I'll be absolutely unstoppable

well inter only need a draw mick, a score draw to go through and goalless for extra time and pens, it is possible, I have a feeling inter will do it

by **bigmick** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:47 am

No chance mate, Man Utd are a miles better team. Even with the Mourinho factor, no chance IMHO.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:53 am

you may be right

by **bigmick** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:59 am

Well when you look at how comfortably we've beaten Italian teams over the last couple of seasons, the Mancs also. There hasn't been a top side come out of Italy for a few seasons now. In point of fact, given the passage of the game and the obvious superiority of Man Utd, it was something of a triumph for Inter to draw the first game. I think it's the only game the Mancs haven't won in ages.

That said, as much as I rate Mourinho, and as much as he provides a factor in himself, and as much as he has an unbelievable record against the Mancs and Ferguson, regardless of who he's managing against them, I just can't see them coming through here.

My bet is 3-0 to the Mancs. If anyone is going to stop them, it'll more than likely have to be an English team. Hopefully us if the get past Inter, although regardless of what anyone else thinks on here, I'll be well and truly cheering Mourinho on in this one. You never know after all.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:13 am

yeah I suppose it will take something special to beat them

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:18 am

bigmick wrote:No chance mate, Man Utd are a miles better team. Even with the Mourinho factor, no chance IMHO.

Kinell, Mick, you never seen an upset before?

You make it sound like it's the Accrington Stanley reserves taking on the Mancs rather than a side with more than enough quality to turn them over. I'm not sure how many people fancied Spurs to make a fist of it last weekend at Wembley but, in the end, they were more than a little unlucky not to be hoisting the cup. I'd of course have the Mancs as favourites myself but there's no way I'm writing off Inter in this one.

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:43 am

bigmick wrote:The thing to remember about him and to consider, is that he is a winner who will do almost whatever it takes to win football matches. Was the Chelsea team which we overcame in the Champions League semi final a better team than the one which put Barcelona out? I don't think it was no, to be honest. Nor did I agree with the nonsense about the ref, and Rjiikjard supposedly talking to him and all that nonsense. It completely unhinged Barca thoug, and Chelsea won through.

Coming back to this point, mate, I think this is the difference between Mourinho enthusiasts and Mourinho detractors in a nutshell. In this passage, you seem to very much take an ends justify the means approach to Mourinho's success and, if it were just a matter of him doing a little line-up prognosticating in the press conference, I might agree with you. After all, his performances before the assembled media are always a show, whether you like the wind up or not. What you all too hastily, IMHO, sweep under the carpet here, though, is the more reprehensible stuff. It's one thing to make a bit of sport about predicting Rijkaard's lineup before the match and quite another to falsely accuse the man of talking to the ref during the halftime interval. In all the guffawing about Mounrinho's rapscallion antics, let's not lose sight of the fact that he fabricated a controversy that led to a top referee feeling the need to take early retirement after receiving death threats from Chelsea supporters. In this one instance, we saw the depths that the "Special One" will plumb in order to hand his side an advantage and while you may be prepared to downplay such things, these are exactly the kinds of impressions of Mourinho that still loom large for me when considering his suitability as Liverpool manager.

As for Barca coming unhinged, I'm not quite convinced that's how it panned out, mate. They did win that first match at the Nou Camp, despite all the kerfufel at the half. Of course, you'll no doubt argue that finding themselves 3-0 down after 20 minutes played at the Bridge (and 4-2 down on aggregrate) constitutes coming unhinged. And, yet, Chelsea did their fair share of imploding too--conceding twice to Ronaldinho before the half and leaving themselves in real danger of crashing out on away goals. Terry eventually salvaged it for them off a corner but not, as I recall, without a massive dose of help from Carvalho's off the ball chicanery. No, I wouldn't say the mind games were the reason why Barca failed to advance at Chelsea's expense that year.

by **bigmick** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:30 am

I wouldn't say they (the shenanigans) were the sole reason either Bob, but they helped a bit I think. As for the half time at bernabau affair, I thought Mourinho was out of order. I've thought Ferguson is bang out of order on many occasions too, this was no better and no worse. The Chelsea fans who got hold of the referees phone number and made threats against him were of course subhuman. I'd have advised him to invite them over. In my experience despite talking a good game they are almost to a man devoid of any @rsehole. I've worked the doors with em and talk talk talk they might, but they go missing pretty sharpish when the sh!t hits the fan. That's what caused him to give up though, the threats off the t0sspots not Mourinho's suggestions (which I say again were out of order).

As for his suitability as Liverpools manager, I say it again Bob it'll never happen. I've never said he will become Liverpool manager, or even that he should become Liverpool manager. I think he would in comparison to rafa do an absolutely fantastic job it's true, but it'll never happen. I merely started this thread because he wasn't included in the original poll (he was one of the "others" behind the likes of Sammy Lee) and to counter the often touted but ridiculous notion that nobody else on planet Earth could manage Liverpool into the top four each year without actually winning a trophy, while spending huge wads of cash.

There are plenty of "others" out there, and he is but one. As for his record, I only really got into that because his was predictably dismissed out of hand by people who think Rafa is up there with legendary managers past and present. Once you look at Mourinho's record, he probably does deserve that legendary status that people are oh so keen to bestow onto the shoulders of our manager.

Last thing. If Mourinho wasn't the manager of Inter, would absolutely anyone give them a chance, a prayer at Old Trafford? Course they wouldn't. They've got a chance because he's the manager. He's the manager so they've got a real chance of beating man Utd because he doesn't lose against them. They'll probably go unbeaten at Home this season because he doesn't lose Home games (I tell a lie he's lost one in nine years). They'll probably win the league because that's generally what he does. That's the Mourinho factor. They walk onto the pitch ten feet tall and they'd run through brick walls for him.

He is out of order sometimes though, I'll give anybody that.

by **loopyliverpool** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:11 pm

Im praying Inter win with some lucky goal from Ibrahimovich, it would bring untold joy in a relatively depressing season. Anything to see the Mancs suffer...oh please God, oh please the Special one.... please please please!!!

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:28 pm

bigmick wrote:I wouldn't say they (the shenanigans) were the sole reason either Bob, but they helped a bit I think. As for the half time at bernabau affair, I thought Mourinho was out of order. I've thought Ferguson is bang out of order on many occasions too, this was no better and no worse. The Chelsea fans who got hold of the referees phone number and made threats against him were of course subhuman. I'd have advised him to invite them over. In my experience despite talking a good game they are almost to a man devoid of any @rsehole. I've worked the doors with em and talk talk talk they might, but they go missing pretty sharpish when the sh!t hits the fan. That's what caused him to give up though, the threats off the t0sspots not Mourinho's suggestions (which I say again were out of order).

As for his suitability as Liverpools manager, I say it again Bob it'll never happen. I've never said he will become Liverpool manager, or even that he should become Liverpool manager. I think he would in comparison to rafa do an absolutely fantastic job it's true, but it'll never happen. I merely started this thread because he wasn't included in the original poll (he was one of the "others" behind the likes of Sammy Lee) and to counter the often touted but ridiculous notion that nobody else on planet Earth could manage Liverpool into the top four each year without actually winning a trophy, while spending huge wads of cash.

There are plenty of "others" out there, and he is but one. As for his record, I only really got into that because his was predictably dismissed out of hand by people who think Rafa is up there with legendary managers past and present. Once you look at Mourinho's record, he probably does deserve that legendary status that people are oh so keen to bestow onto the shoulders of our manager.

Last thing. If Mourinho wasn't the manager of Inter, would absolutely anyone give them a chance, a prayer at Old Trafford? Course they wouldn't. They've got a chance because he's the manager. He's the manager so they've got a real chance of beating man Utd because he doesn't lose against them. They'll probably go unbeaten at Home this season because he doesn't lose Home games (I tell a lie he's lost one in nine years). They'll probably win the league because that's generally what he does. That's the Mourinho factor. They walk onto the pitch ten feet tall and they'd run through brick walls for him.

He is out of order sometimes though, I'll give anybody that.

All fair enough, mate. As I've said, his record is indisputably stellar so you'll have no quarrel from me on that front. The character question is a lot more of a grey area and I think it's a case of whether that kind of thing is largely your cup of tea or not (I say largely because anyone can point to a few instances where the wind-up goes too far and stops being funny, I should think). It may indeed be a moot point with respect to Liverpool but more than a few people have expressed interest in him as Rafa's replacement so I think his suitability as our manager is very much the undercurrent of this whole discussion, whether that's realistic or not. Finally, I'm definitely not one of those that thinks that Inter have a shot at turning the Mancs over entirely because of their manager. No, for me the far more compelling reason is that the tie sits at 0-0, which gives Inter not only the chance to win it outright but also to go through on a score draw. Even another 0-0 gets it to extra time and the possibility of penalties so it's all very delicately poised. A poor bounce here, a late challenge there and it could go Inter's way very quickly and that would be true regardless of who was managing the Italians. I know it's your contention that the English clubs are a superior force in European football of late and, when looking at the wider picture, I would agree with you. That does not mean, however, that it's inconceivable that a continental side could turn up in England and do the business on the night, which is all Inter (or Real for that matter) need to do. One night, 90+ minutes of football...anything can happen, mate.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:04 pm

I don't think the English "force" can be overstated at the moment. Not one English team was knocked out by continental teams in last years comp. We beat Arsenal, Chelsea beat us, and the mancs beat Chelsea in the final.

I will be very surprised if all four English clubs don't go through to the next round, even though they may all seem quite close calls on paper.

I will however be hoping that the mancs, Chelsea AND Arsenal go out, because I believe we would have an easier time in the next rounds against ANY of their opponents.

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:00 pm

s@int wrote:I don't think the English "force" can be overstated at the moment. Not one English team was knocked out by continental teams in last years comp. We beat Arsenal, Chelsea beat us, and the mancs beat Chelsea in the final.

I will be very surprised if all four English clubs don't go through to the next round, even though they may all seem quite close calls on paper.

I will however be hoping that the mancs, Chelsea AND Arsenal go out, because I believe we would have an easier time in the next rounds against ANY of their opponents.

Well, it certainly will be an interesting litmus test for this theory of clear English superiority, mate. At the moment, none of the ties involving English teams are a foregone conclusion** and, while a sample size of four is hardly statistically significant, I would think that the odds would point to one of the English teams crashing out this week, were all things relatively equal between continental football and English football. Should all 4 win through, then, I think it just strengthens Mick's case that English football is clearly superior at the moment. What happens if one or even two don't make it, though? Will that require a rethink of the original theory or will it just be considered a fluke? It will be interesting (unless of course, we're the ones crashing out, in which case it will be disastrous).

**Arsenal and Chelsea both travel this week, looking to defend slender 1 goal leads. The Mancs, as we've discussed, have to win while we are in the best position, theoretically, as we can also go through with a 0-0 draw. I do predict a fair few squeaky bum moments for all 4 English teams this week, though, for whatever that's worth in terms of this discussion.

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