Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:40 pm

Fair enough mate, we were always going to differ on this one lets be honest

.

by **roberto green** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:54 pm

No contest Rafa is light years ahead,

Every top club had more or less the same amount of money to spend (apart from the mancs) when GH was here and the money market for transfers was reasonable so you didn't have to spend much money to get a decent player.

When Rafa come in he had some shyte to move out the team and he had the new Chelsea moneybags to compete with which raised the price in players. Rafa might of lost his way last season but for me he is a lot better manager than GH and I'm sure he will continue to prove it at Inter

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:57 pm

bigmick wrote:Fair enough mate, we were always going to differ on this one lets be honest .

yep

But maybe we can agree that both are now resigned to Liverpool's past

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:03 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
bigmick wrote:Fair enough mate, we were always going to differ on this one lets be honest .

yep
But maybe we can agree that both are now resigned to Liverpool's past

We can also agree that they were both failures
:eyebrow

by **Calum** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:34 am

Both had their moments, although I think Benitez just edged it because of the Champions League performances. He blew it for me when last summer he blew almost £40M on 2 players that should have been spent more wisely.

I'm more concerned Phil Thompson is going to be Houllier's assistant. This means no more Thommo on Soccer Saturday on Sky Sports!

by **Kharhaz** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:50 am

roberto green wrote:No contest Rafa is light years ahead

No, he isn't.

I have never seen Liverpool play such conservative, drab, unenlightened, depressing football as we did under Rafa. On so many occasions when we were miffed with the result, Rafa gave a huge smile as to why he was satisfied with the point when we got it, the "lets look to the next game" attitude when we lost.

No. Rafa gave me my greatest moment as a Liverpool supporter in Istanbul. But to class Rafa as light years ahead is a ridiculous statement. His stubborn nature, his own beliefs on players on who was good for the club and who wasn't, the fact that supporters are picking on Roy Hodgson for playing defensive with a team made up of mediocre players which Rafa brought in.

No Rafa was not light years ahead, he was single minded, and had his own interests at his heart. Liverpool came second.

by **Kukilon** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:40 am

Rafa was and still is much better coach/manager than Houllier. Rafa has been working against the owners for such a long time and hardly been able to bring in the players he wanted. He "always" had to make due with his second or even third hand choices. Sure he wants his team to play "borring" football but that goes for most of the better managers out there.

Mourinho and Capello has always managed top teams with lots of money and they still play borring. The only reason why Chelsea could crush opponents is because they have had such a huge advantage in players to choose from.

Rafa took an ordinairy Valencia and beat teams like Barcelona and Real Madrid in the league twice and even brought home some cups. He steered us to a CL and an FA cup.. We also had great runs in both CL and the UEFA cup. sure it's not great but look at under what circumstances he did it.

Houllier is a nobody compared to what Rafa has achieved and he has always taken over teams that has been in good shape and competing in the league was much easier back then because the playing field was more fair. Inter is the only top quality team Rafa has ever gotten his hands on.

Houllier the little bitch has always tried to take credit for when we won the CL and he has always tried to back stab Rafa and every other person he ever gets asked questions about. Our team in Instanbul was probably the worst team to have ever won it, against the best team in the world at the time. Yeah Houllier you had built a great team you :censored:

wit!

by **maguskwt** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:42 am

bigmick wrote:Hopefully our new manager can get himself up there, he's certainly made the right moves so far .

You sure are a groupie Mick, always :buttrock

whatever Roy does :laugh:

by **Octsky** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:17 am

we were a joke under Roy Evans, with jokers defenders like Babb, Bjoikbye, Matteo, Ruddock etc etc.
and the classic keeper in D.James.

Houllier came brought in Hyypia, Rislle, Henchoz etc.
He taught us how to defend like a team and we won the treble, we finally won something after a long time. But he brought us as far as he could.

Rafa came, won the Champs league with Houllier's team and didnt progress much afterward. Our expectation of Rafa is high and he didnt deliver. A muntiny in the dressing room meant he had to leave.

for me, Houllier starts the ball rolling in the right direction and Rafa did not add momentum to it, instead steering it backwards. and he is going to do it again with Inter.

by **maguskwt** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:32 am

Octsky wrote:A muntiny in the dressing room meant he had to leave.

when did this so called 'mutiny' take place and who took part in it?

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:41 am

I think a number of people are just judging the previous managers reign on last seasons performance only ignoring the seasons before that - won cl and got to cc final in first season , fa cup and third in next season , cl final the next season , cl semi and third season after and cl quarter and second in league the next season . Rafa had the team beating every single top team in Europe which led us to being the number one ranked team in Europe as well and comfortably being in top 4 of prem and so nearly winning the title - yes we came second under Houllier but that year we didn't really challenge to win the thing . Houllier did well with his cup treble and did provide a stepping stone but Rafa turned us into one of the best clubs in Europe again - that is progress that can't be denied . For that Rafa IMO is ahead of houllier and always will be .

by **fivecups** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:50 am

Benny The Noon wrote:Houllier did well with his cup treble and did provide a stepping stone but Rafa turned us into one of the best clubs in Europe again - that is progress that can't be denied .

There's the problem though. FWIW Rafa get's my vote, easily. A European cup, a CL final and our best title challenge in 20 years. No contest.

But the problem is, despite hugely mitigating circumstances, we simply didn't maintain that level. I mean, are you saying we are currently one of the top teams in Europe? IMO it was time for a change, he bought very poorly over the last 2 1/2 years of his tenure and would never have recovered from last season.

by **In and Out** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:01 am

Benny The Noon wrote:I think a number of people are just judging the previous managers reign on last seasons performance only ignoring the seasons before that - won cl and got to cc final in first season , fa cup and third in next season , cl final the next season , cl semi and third season after and cl quarter and second in league the next season . Rafa had the team beating every single top team in Europe which led us to being the number one ranked team in Europe as well and comfortably being in top 4 of prem and so nearly winning the title - yes we came second under Houllier but that year we didn't really challenge to win the thing . Houllier did well with his cup treble and did provide a stepping stone but Rafa turned us into one of the best clubs in Europe again - that is progress that can't be denied . For that Rafa IMO is ahead of houllier and always will be .

When was the last trophy delivered by said manager?

I find it hard to believe that someone like Kuyt who seems as though he has been around forever has never won a medal or trophy with the club.

You can talk all day about reaching CL qF and sF but I'd ask you to remind me what Shankly said about coming second and all that...

Rafa did have largerly the beating of the top European sides on the continent (I'm not going to argue the sky being blue when it is). Yet he never had the same pedigree back on home turf with the other 'big 3' in the league, infact some of the smaller teams Rafa made hard work on and that was three, four years into his job.

In the end there wasn't a great deal of difference between Houllier and Rafa in my opinion. Rafa marginalises it for me but there isn't much sunlight between the two, perhaps a rizlas worth.

by **Thommo's perm** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:03 am

Benny The Noon wrote:I think a number of people are just judging the previous managers reign on last seasons performance only ignoring the seasons before that - won cl and got to cc final in first season , fa cup and third in next season , cl final the next season , cl semi and third season after and cl quarter and second in league the next season . Rafa had the team beating every single top team in Europe which led us to being the number one ranked team in Europe as well and comfortably being in top 4 of prem and so nearly winning the title - yes we came second under Houllier but that year we didn't really challenge to win the thing . Houllier did well with his cup treble and did provide a stepping stone but Rafa turned us into one of the best clubs in Europe again - that is progress that can't be denied . For that Rafa IMO is ahead of houllier and always will be .

Theres a definite pattern there isnt there?
Champions league winners, champions league finalists, champions league semi finalists, champions league quarter finalists, champions league non qualifiers.
Thanks for pointing that out

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:06 am

Either way it goes they were both our most successful managers since Kenny and miles ahead if the previous two managers - they both had their faults , they both made incorrect signings and hey both messed up and in the end neither could deliver the Holy Grail - Rafa delivered the next best thing .

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