Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

Excellent post by Bad Bob before which I agree with.

With regards to the point about Carroll's style of play and how we use him, it's up to the other players in the side to adapt to him and not just use him as an out ball all the time. When I watched him at Newcastle he was a lot quicker than some gave him credit for and we haven't really see him at full tilt yet for us due to injury. Given time he'll definitely fit into our image and style of play. People need to remember that for ages we played with a striker who hardly contributed anything to our play unless he was scoring in Torres.

Here is a really interesting article that the King wrote last season before Newcastle's game against Sunderland: the match Newcastle won 5-1 and Bramble was sent off for hauling down Carroll.



Now the bit about floated crosses goes a large way to explaining Kenny's purchase of Henderson as this is how he likes to cross a lot of the time. Barton did it well to great effect with the likes of Nolan running off Carroll to pick up the second balls. After Carroll left, Nolan's goals dried up completely. In our set up you can certainly see the likes of Kuyt, Suarez and Gerrard when he comes back benefiting from this.

There is also an excellent read here with regards to Carroll.

http://www.anfieldindex.com/3060/andy-carroll-big-man.html

[Ola Mr Benitez]

Excellent post by Bad Bob before which I agree with.

With regards to the point about Carroll's style of play and how we use him, it's up to the other players in the side to adapt to him and not just use him as an out ball all the time. When I watched him at Newcastle he was a lot quicker than some gave him credit for and we haven't really see him at full tilt yet for us due to injury. Given time he'll definitely fit into our image and style of play. People need to remember that for ages we played with a striker who hardly contributed anything to our play unless he was scoring in Torres.

Here is a really interesting article that the King wrote last season before Newcastle's game against Sunderland: the match Newcastle won 5-1 and Bramble was sent off for hauling down Carroll.



Now the bit about floated crosses goes a large way to explaining Kenny's purchase of Henderson as this is how he likes to cross a lot of the time. Barton did it well to great effect with the likes of Nolan running off Carroll to pick up the second balls. After Carroll left, Nolan's goals dried up completely. In our set up you can certainly see the likes of Kuyt, Suarez and Gerrard when he comes back benefiting from this.

There is also an excellent read here with regards to Carroll.

http://www.anfieldindex.com/3060/andy-carroll-big-man.html

yeah, thats what I said...

[Scottbot]

I don't actually think the concerns expressed about Carroll have been too over the top.  To me, there seem to be a few issues driving them:

1) His transfer fee (being discussed currently in another thread): it's safe to say that the fact that we paid 35 million pounds for the guy matters to some people when they evaluate him and may in fact matter to the player himself.  I think it's clear that we'd see much less concern expressed if we paid less for him.

2) His style of play: he's not super fast and not super mobile so he's always going to look a bit cumbersome, especially next to the likes of Suarez, Downing and Henderson.  It also means that he's going to struggle a bit to play the high octane, defend from the front game that the likes of Suarez and Kuyt excel at.  For some people, that's a concern.  I don't think it's too dissimilar to some of the attitudes about Crouch on here back in the day (who divided opinion).  Some posters just didn't take to the big man because they didn't love his style of play.  Like Crouch, Andy will win more converts when he starts scoring with consistency.

3) The team's style of play when he's in the side.  Again, as was the case with Crouch before him, there are some who are concerned that we turn into a one-dimensional long ball team with Andy in the side.  There's certainly some truth to that and I think this is the most legitimate of the concerns expressed.  If we can produce the kind of football we saw on Saturday with Carroll in the side, I think doubters would relax.  In addition, if the lads could adapt their style to make better use of his qualities when he does play, without completely abandoning pass and move, I think people will see his value.

So, given these three factors I'm not surprised there are a few doubters and, fair enough, really.  Personally, I'm still optimistic that we can find a way to use him effectively without completely sacrificing the kind of football we saw against Bolton.  I'm also more of the "let's wait and see camp" rather than the "I know it's early but".  I came to appreciate what Crouchy brought to the side over time and I have confidence that Carroll can find a way to slot in too, if given the chance.

Good post that mate. I think you've hit most of the issues on the nose. The transfer fee is a problem for the lad and the same goes for young Henderson. These are essentially two young Premiership footballers who have barely played 2 full seasons in the top flight between them. I think fans need to remember that. Both of these players have got a ways to go so far as development goes. Regardless of their transfer fees.

Also, the other problem facing Carroll is that many LFC fans are not in favour of playing with a big target man (must admit i'm one of them) because of the limitations that this can bring in the way you play. However, Dalglish came in right at the end of John Toshack's Liverpool career and will be well aware that big Andy has many similar qualities.

Now personally I think that we would have been better keeping that £35 million till the summer and then taken the time to really select the right player(s). However, hindsight is a wonderful thing and I don't think anyone could have anticipated Suarez being quite so special, surely? I also think the new owners were keen to make splash having lost Torres and clearly both Kenny and Commoli rated Carroll.

[Bad Bob]

However, hindsight is a wonderful thing and I don't think anyone could have anticipated Suarez being quite so special, surely? I also think the new owners were keen to make splash having lost Torres and clearly both Kenny and Commoli rated Carroll.

Two key points there Scott.  I said in the other thread that I think Suarez's sheer brilliance and immediate suitability to the league has allowed everyone to be slightly cavalier with the hindsight.  Sure, rushing through a 35 million transfer on the last day of the January window looks a little unnecessary in hindsight but that's mostly because Suarez has been so good that we've forgotten how depleted we were looking last January.  Torres was on his way, Suarez was coming in but was a relatively unknown quantity to most in terms of both his talent and his suitability for the English game.  Beyond that we had Ngog, Kuyt and an unfancied Danny Pacheco as our striking options.  Hardly surprising in those circumstances to see Kenny and Damien decide we needed to get someone else in sharpish.

Your other point is also important: Torres was the latest in a string of world class players to depart and we looked very much adrift as a club.  Jibbing Roy in favour of Kenny was a huge step in the right direction but the owners and Damien and Kenny obviously wanted to make an immediate statement with the Torres money.  Again, in hindsight, it's easy to say that the return of the king and the brilliance of Suarez was probably statement enough but things weren't quite so clear at the time.

[Octsky]

However, hindsight is a wonderful thing and I don't think anyone could have anticipated Suarez being quite so special, surely? I also think the new owners were keen to make splash having lost Torres and clearly both Kenny and Commoli rated Carroll.

Two key points there Scott.  I said in the other thread that I think Suarez's sheer brilliance and immediate suitability to the league has allowed everyone to be slightly cavalier with the hindsight.  Sure, rushing through a 35 million transfer on the last day of the January window looks a little unnecessary in hindsight but that's mostly because Suarez has been so good that we've forgotten how depleted we were looking last January.  Torres was on his way, Suarez was coming in but was a relatively unknown quantity to most in terms of both his talent and his suitability for the English game.  Beyond that we had Ngog, Kuyt and an unfancied Danny Pacheco as our striking options.  Hardly surprising in those circumstances to see Kenny and Damien decide we needed to get someone else in sharpish.

Your other point is also important: Torres was the latest in a string of world class players to depart and we looked very much adrift as a club.  Jibbing Roy in favour of Kenny was a huge step in the right direction but the owners and Damien and Kenny obviously wanted to make an immediate statement with the Torres money.  Again, in hindsight, it's easy to say that the return of the king and the brilliance of Suarez was probably statement enough but things weren't quite so clear at the time.

it is not hindsight not to sign someone who was injured for a month for 35m, and we could have sign Carroll cheaper and the end of the season.

and spending 35m on someone who played half a top flight season in his whole career is not really inspiring for fans.

who honestly can say that he/she was inspired, hope anew when Carroll signed for us at the death last season ?

i think most of us felt puzzled.  and Carroll's attitude was disappointed when he made his appearance during the Bolton match, instead of scoring a goal against a demoralized Bolton squad and claiming a stake in the team. He played like a sunday kickabout in the park with his daughter.

i remember watching the highlights vs Exter, and the commentator point out the enthusiasm of Suraez even when playing a team two league down in a relatively unimportant match. that what we need from every LFC player IMO.

[stmichael]

even capello wading in now having a go at the guy. sick of it already to be honest.

[jacdaniel]

even capello wading in now having a go at the guy. sick of it already to be honest.

Its not right for Capello to go mouthing off to the media but Carroll does need to improve.

At the moment, i dont think he deserves to be in our starting 11.

[Kenny Kan]

At the moment, i dont think he deserves to be in our starting 11.

Agreed.

[7_Kewell]

even capello wading in now having a go at the guy. sick of it already to be honest.

telling the lad that he needs to work hard and take care of his body to achieve great things is hardly having a go.

Carroll has two of the greatest managers guiding him now...he has to listen to their advice on how to improve.

[Greavesie]

even capello wading in now having a go at the guy. sick of it already to be honest.

that was my initial reaction to reading it

Carroll plays for Liverpool, I don't believe its the England managers place to be saying anything about individuals, if Capello saw a problem, get in touch with Kenny and communicate it that way and let Kenny do something about it.

Feel a bit sorry for Carroll, he can't go anywhere without criticism, remember when he was pictured with Pepe and Cahill and people were harping on then because he had a pint. Sadly, I think its something that's going to follow him around for his career (unless he starts scoring some fooking goals!!  )

[Ben Patrick]

I think Capellos a cheeky cnt tbh.

Would he criticise any other player like that ?
Unlikely.

If i was Kennt i'd be issuing a statement about how happy i was with him and how he's looked sharp as feck lately.

Feck Capello little turd.

[Greavesie]

Kenny backed him last time, I expect this time to be no different, he'll get a dig at him in the next conference, last time it was 'he hasn't bought me a pint yet'

[stmichael]

I think Capellos a cheeky cnt tbh.

Would he criticise any other player like that ?
Unlikely.

If i was Kennt i'd be issuing a statement about how happy i was with him and how he's looked sharp as feck lately.

Feck Capello little turd.

he certainly wouln't be criticising a player if ginsoak or "arry" had signed him.

if he's that out of shape what's the point of picking him fo the squad in the first place just to slate him?

[Ben Patrick]

I think Capellos a cheeky cnt tbh.

Would he criticise any other player like that ?
Unlikely.

If i was Kennt i'd be issuing a statement about how happy i was with him and how he's looked sharp as feck lately.

Feck Capello little turd.

he certainly wouln't be criticising a player if ginsoak or "arry" had signed him.

if he's that out of shape what's the point of picking him fo the squad in the first place just to slate him?

agreed, and if he has an issue with him a good idea might be not to slag him off to the media.

Cnts trick

[Santa]

nevertheless, if I'm a heavily paid professional sportsman, living a healthy lifestyle and taking good care of your body is a given responsibility owed to your paymaster...I don't believe Carroll realised that, yet! otoh I think Capello is out of line criticising his player in the open