Liverpool FC Forum

[jacdaniel]

Unfortunately the price we paid is important at the end of the day. The owners spend big money and they expect big things.  The media constantly bring up the fee.

I do think Carroll would make a good squad player or impact sub, but you just can't justify spending so much for that kinda role.

It would be like buying a brand new iPhone 5, never taking it out of its box and persisting with your current phone...
You just can't spend that kind of money and not use something or give it to someone who will.

[Kharhaz]

Kharhaz...      you've been owned.

Not really, his entire post has proved my point. It was his agenda to disprove my argument, and in doing so, has reinforced it. He hasnt been able to counter my argument regarding Andy Carroll, but simply shifted his agenda to what else I wrote.

So no, not owned, simply, proved right.

[redno7]

Kharhaz...      you've been owned.

Not really, his entire post has proved my point. It was his agenda to disprove my argument, and in doing so, has reinforced it. He hasnt been able to counter my argument regarding Andy Carroll, but simply shifted his agenda to what else I wrote.

So no, not owned, simply, proved right.

err no. 

[heimdall]

Kharhaz...      you've been owned.

Not really, his entire post has proved my point. It was his agenda to disprove my argument, and in doing so, has reinforced it. He hasnt been able to counter my argument regarding Andy Carroll, but simply shifted his agenda to what else I wrote.

So no, not owned, simply, proved right.

Isn't it past your bedtime child? You cannot be an adult if you can't see that your argument, which was already flimsy and NOT based on any actual facts, was completely overturned.
BTW maybe ask your teacher what the definition of the word agenda is.

[kartiek]

Unfortunately the price we paid is important at the end of the day. The owners spend big money and they expect big things.  The media constantly bring up the fee.

I do think Carroll would make a good squad player or impact sub, but you just can't justify spending so much for that kinda role.

It would be like buying a brand new iPhone 5, never taking it out of its box and persisting with your current phone...
You just can't spend that kind of money and not use something or give it to someone who will.

Not quite, to equate Andy Carroll to an iPhone 5 would be gross injustice to the an iPhone 5. I don't like to berate our players, but sadly the lad is more like a Nokia 2100. The truth is that is we bought a Nokia 2100 for the price of an airplane and then parked it indefinitely in a hangar.

[Kharhaz]

Kharhaz...      you've been owned.

Not really, his entire post has proved my point. It was his agenda to disprove my argument, and in doing so, has reinforced it. He hasnt been able to counter my argument regarding Andy Carroll, but simply shifted his agenda to what else I wrote.

So no, not owned, simply, proved right.

Isn't it past your bedtime child? You cannot be an adult if you can't see that your argument, which was already flimsy and NOT based on any actual facts, was completely overturned.
BTW maybe ask your teacher what the definition of the word agenda is.

All I can I do now is leave this forum to you, and your kind of people.

All I have done is support our club, our players, and our managers, and all that has been brought into question is my methods of supporting this club. I can abide by this, what I cant abide by is self proclaimed supporters who go out of their way to not only critisize the players, but the supporters. Todays supporter simply wants money spent, the club to buy success, and the old guard to simply step aside.

I will abide with those wishes.

I will simply remember football for how it was.

[The Raven]

No you brought into question anyone saying one bad thing about the club as having an AGENDA.

Then you carry on your ***** by saying "Todays supporter simply wants money spent, the club to buy success, and the old guard to simply step aside"

What a total broadside that is! Tarring everyone with the same brush.

[devaney]

Devaney -£ for £ I'm struggling to think of any. If we sell both Downing and Carroll now we would do very well to recoup £25m for the two of them. That is a massive £30m loss over a very short space of time. So perhaps you could throw a few names into the mix. Aquilani and Keane come to mind and were probably equally as bad as Downing but certainly not Carroll who has proved to be an even bigger disappointment.[/quote]

Kharhaz - I find it admirable that you are prepared to defend Carroll and enthuse about his improvement towards the end of last season. Yes he did some reasonable work against United and Chelsea in the FA Cup but that is all it was. He had been so incredibly poor for 16 months that any improvement would have been noticed and given too much credit. Carroll has scored 3 goals in 37 league games and if that isn't sufficient evidence to suggest he isn't up to the job of a striker then I don't know what is.Sorry mate I just cannot agree with your assessment of Andy.[/quote]

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb - carroll wasnt worth anywhere near the £35m we paid for him and he isnt a prolific goalscorer but that doesnt mean he isnt a very effective player. carroll puts defences under pressure and he attracts defenders creating space for other players.
you are concentrating on his goal return but some of the best games he had in a red shirt he didnt actually get on the scoresheet.
the derby game at anfield was one of our best performances of the season and carroll had a superb game, he totally dominated fellaini (moyes stuck fellaini on carroll) and jagielka and his performance against chelsea at anfield was a similar story, we scored 4 goals and although carroll didnt score himself he created a goal for agger, won a penalty and created so much general havoc john terry labelled him as `unplayable`.
i think rodgers f##ked up by discarding carroll, i still think we should get him back, i`d play him as the central striker and have the likes of suarez and sterling or even borini playing off him. i dont think carroll would break any scoring records but the players playing off him might.
whatsmore i think we`d have more threat about us as a team because we`d ask teams different questions.
considering the way carroll finished the season and considering how well he did for england i think rodgers is possibly the only manager in the country who wouldnt have at least given carroll a chance.[/quote]

Sorry ycsatbjywtbiastkamb but whilst I admire your support for Andy your argument is seriously flawed. I accept that Andy had a few decent performances in the cup towards the end of last season. For fifteen months he played some very average to poor football. Yes he scored 11 goals in eighteen games before joining us. Three of them were against an awful Villa. Take a look at our results in the league from 3rd January 2011 to the end of last season. Andy started in most of those games and if he didn't start he was used as a sub. We lost more matches in the league during that period than we have for more than thirty years. Andy score two goals against a woeful Wolves and an awful Blackburn and his performances certainly didn't help us win matches. Am I missing something. I've desperately tried to support Andy but at the moment I think he is simply a square peg in a round hole.

[Boxscarf]

your post is the most balanced one in this discussion and i can see what you are saying but football is a team game, it`s not a game about individuals.
the idea is to get 11 players and turn them into a side greater than the sum of their individual parts.
why do you think we were the best side in europe for a decade with british/irish players when other teams on the continent were spending fortunes on players like cruyff, maradona, ruminegge, breitner, zico, falcao, platini etc?
it`s because we were a team.
carroll is never going to be a prolific goalscorer but what he will do is make the TEAM better by bringing his attributes to the table.
having a player that can dominate the biggest and strongest centre halves in the league like john terry, ivanovic, soto, skrtel etc in a physical battle makes you a tough team to play against.
john toshack scored 5 league goals in his first season at liverpool but a few years later he was part of the best strike partnership in the country and scored the winner at the nou camp to knock barcelona out of europe when they had world record signing johann cruyff in their side.
fans these days would have hounded him out after his first season.

I'm well aware of football being a team game, however at times certain individuals will decide to outcome of matches. The fact remains we need a striker who can put the ball into the net in a similar fashion to Luis Suarez. United have Rooney and Van Persie who score more than twenty goals a season each.

Andy Carroll is a very good footballer, he's a comodity that we can ill afford at the moment.

[The Raven]

In his defence his mental state must be shot.

He was forced outa Toon, came here for way to much money, then is shipped out again against his will.

If it was me i would stop giving a ***** and collect the money

[devaney]

In his defence his mental state must be shot.

He was forced outa Toon, came here for way to much money, then is shipped out again against his will.

If it was me i would stop giving a ***** and collect the money

He did that for fifteen months when he joined us lad !!! 

[heimdall]

your post is the most balanced one in this discussion and i can see what you are saying but football is a team game, it`s not a game about individuals.
the idea is to get 11 players and turn them into a side greater than the sum of their individual parts.
why do you think we were the best side in europe for a decade with british/irish players when other teams on the continent were spending fortunes on players like cruyff, maradona, ruminegge, breitner, zico, falcao, platini etc?
it`s because we were a team.
carroll is never going to be a prolific goalscorer but what he will do is make the TEAM better by bringing his attributes to the table.
having a player that can dominate the biggest and strongest centre halves in the league like john terry, ivanovic, soto, skrtel etc in a physical battle makes you a tough team to play against.
john toshack scored 5 league goals in his first season at liverpool but a few years later he was part of the best strike partnership in the country and scored the winner at the nou camp to knock barcelona out of europe when they had world record signing johann cruyff in their side.
fans these days would have hounded him out after his first season.

I'm well aware of football being a team game, however at times certain individuals will decide to outcome of matches. The fact remains we need a striker who can put the ball into the net in a similar fashion to Luis Suarez. United have Rooney and Van Persie who score more than twenty goals a season each.

Andy Carroll is a very good footballer, he's a comodity that we can ill afford at the moment.

If Andy Carroll is a "very good" footballer can you tell me what in your mind constitutes a bad footballer. I think you may be devaluing and corrupting the word good. In my opinion Andy Carroll is the worst striker Liverpool have had in recent years, and yes I am including Voronin!

[Kenny Kan]

Would he be considered a "false no 9"?

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

your post is the most balanced one in this discussion and i can see what you are saying but football is a team game, it`s not a game about individuals.
the idea is to get 11 players and turn them into a side greater than the sum of their individual parts.
why do you think we were the best side in europe for a decade with british/irish players when other teams on the continent were spending fortunes on players like cruyff, maradona, ruminegge, breitner, zico, falcao, platini etc?
it`s because we were a team.
carroll is never going to be a prolific goalscorer but what he will do is make the TEAM better by bringing his attributes to the table.
having a player that can dominate the biggest and strongest centre halves in the league like john terry, ivanovic, soto, skrtel etc in a physical battle makes you a tough team to play against.
john toshack scored 5 league goals in his first season at liverpool but a few years later he was part of the best strike partnership in the country and scored the winner at the nou camp to knock barcelona out of europe when they had world record signing johann cruyff in their side.
fans these days would have hounded him out after his first season.

I'm well aware of football being a team game, however at times certain individuals will decide to outcome of matches. The fact remains we need a striker who can put the ball into the net in a similar fashion to Luis Suarez. United have Rooney and Van Persie who score more than twenty goals a season each.

Andy Carroll is a very good footballer, he's a comodity that we can ill afford at the moment.

If Andy Carroll is a "very good" footballer can you tell me what in your mind constitutes a bad footballer. I think you may be devaluing and corrupting the word good. In my opinion Andy Carroll is the worst striker Liverpool have had in recent years, and yes I am including Voronin!

did voronin put in a MoM display (and set up the winner) in one of the biggest liverpool v united clashes in recent memory? played in the middle of suarez`s ban the build up to kick off for that game was live not just on the sports channels but the BBC news channel and sky news as well.
did voronin score a last minute winner in the biggest derby game in a quarter of a century which happened to be a F.A  cup semi final at wembley?
did voronin nearly single handedly turn around an F.A cup final in just half an hour against the european champions when his team mates had clearly thrown the towel in?
carroll wasnt a success here but he wasnt $h1te and he was trying hard to turn things around, wether he played well or not whenever he put on a red shirt he gave his all, to compare him to someone like voronin who looked like he couldnt care less in a red shirt and just moaned about everything off the pitch from the weather to the city is ridiculous.

[maguskwt]

did voronin put in a MoM display (and set up the winner) in one of the biggest liverpool v united clashes in recent memory? played in the middle of suarez`s ban the build up to kick off for that game was live not just on the sports channels but the BBC news channel and sky news as well.
did voronin score a last minute winner in the biggest derby game in a quarter of a century which happened to be a F.A  cup semi final at wembley?
did voronin nearly single handedly turn around an F.A cup final in just half an hour against the european champions when his team mates had clearly thrown the towel in?
carroll wasnt a success here but he wasnt $h1te and he was trying hard to turn things around, wether he played well or not whenever he put on a red shirt he gave his all, to compare him to someone like voronin who looked like he couldnt care less in a red shirt and just moaned about everything off the pitch from the weather to the city is ridiculous.

No... but voronin's pony tail looked more kick-ass!