Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

It's one thing to keep believing the manager will change his mind and give Andy a chance to impress but at some point we're probably going to have to accept that he's not in the manager's plans. Given that likely reality, there really are only two options worth considering; a sale or a loan. The other option is that he stays but doesn't feature regularly in which case he becomes a distraction, his value decreases, and we still have to pay his wages.

With that in mind, I think the best option has to be a sale with the proceeds being used to buy a replacement. Whether that's the right option or not depends on the money being offered, as well as the possible replacements that are avilable on the market -- the manager may well have a replacement in mind now who he wants to sign now, rather than risk waiting and losing out. His budget may even be such that he can only buy an adequate replacement by selling players. A loan would only be better than a sale if the offer to buy outright was significantly lower than Andy's expected value at the end of the loan period, plus any savings made on his wages and minus any potential opportunity lost to sign a replacement in the current window.

Hard though it is to estimate his future value, we can still ask whether he's likely to have much success at the club seeking to loan him and how that might affect his value. He's bound to be a hit at somehwere like West Ham, for example, given the way they play. Since they changed their style of play and brought in Ba and Cisse, could you say the same about his chances at Newcastle? Would the fans accept him back? I'm not so sure. But even assuming that he does well on loan, it's not necessarily going to result in an increase in his value. For that to happen, we really need lots of interest from clubs that are prepared to big money and it may just be that he doesn't attract that kind of interest. He could also dig his heels in and insist on a move to Newcastle and, in those circumstances, we may be forced to compromise on a lower price than we had antincipated prior to letting him leave on loan. Would that be a better position to be in than an outright sale this summer? Doubtful. So, if the manager doesn't want him, I say we sell him and re-invest in the squad now, so both the club and Andy can move on without further delay.

[parchpea]

To be quite frank I would haul Comolli before the select committee on this deal, well its all the rage isnt it 

[The Raven]

LFC2007 great post.

However i stil belive that one day Andy Carroll will be a total utter beast of a player. If he isnt sold will Brandon still buy another striker?

I guess i just feel sorry for Carroll he was forced out of the Toon, injured, booed, not played, turned the corner, Smashed the ***** outa JT, called up for england, scored then repeat.

If after 6 months he still isnt working out then fine sell him just atleast give him a chance to show what he can do. If he goes this will be the biggest mistake since we told Anelka to do one and brought Diouf

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

This signing has been a disaster from day 1. Ridiculous fee paid for a player who was flavour of the month and not even worth half of what we paid. It took him more than 6 months to get in shape last year. I’m sorry but any professional sports person with the right guidance and dedication can do it 2 months. A couple of good games at the end of the season and a header in the Euros and all of a sudden he is our saviour?! His movement is of Sunday league quality and his touch isn’t much better than Carragher’s.

And why does Rodgers have to see him in training or give him some games before making a call? It’s not as though he is a youngster or an unknown quantity from some far away country. I’m guessing Rodgers knows a fair bit about him after setting up teams against him both in the Championship and the Premier League, and has carried out detailed video analysis. Every new manager will have players he fancies and those that don’t so I think I’ll give my backing to Rodgers rather than Carroll who has failed miserably over the last 18 months and who the last management tried to offload in January. 

I agree that a loan wouldn’t make sense. Get whatever we can for him, buy a replacement and put this ugly chapter behind us.

i think you are being very harsh on carroll there.
lets face it he grew up watching newcastle and idolising the number 9 shirt that shearer was wearing at that time. like everyone of us he dreamt of playing for his hometown club. he gets a trial for them and then starts living his dream, next minute he`s impressing in the reserves.
although he`s only 19/20 he gets his chance to play for the first team when newcastle drop a division and have to sell their big earners.
he scores the goals to fire them out of the championship and then the following season he takes the prem by storm scoring 11 goals in 19 games before picking up an injury. he`s even given the number 9 shirt by newcastle. he probably thinks he is in dreamland.
then one day at tea time he gets a phone call from the club asking him to pop down the ground for a minute, 4 hours later he`s in melwood and signing for a club he didnt want to join. the club he grew up worshipping and dreaming about his whole life gave him a pat on the back and said to him mind you dont bang your head on the way out lad.
i know for a fact if that was me at liverpool and as soon as i got into the team they f**ked me of to newcastle or anywhere else i`d be f**king devastated.
24 hours after not having a care in the world he finds himself at 21 living away from home with a £35m albatross around his neck and the job of replacing a striker that scored 50 goals quicker than any striker in the entire history of liverpool football club.
fast forward a few months and he is a figure of national ridicule just because he`s struggling to cope with life in a new city and playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world.
what i like about carroll though is that he had the mental strength to turn it all around.
dont blame andy carroll for someone else`s f**k ups, he didnt set the price, he didnt even want the transfer to happen.

[D___C]

The biggest mistake has already been done when we signed him.

There is not one Liverpool fan who would go back right now to 30 January 2011 and say.."hope we sign Andy Carroll".

And as for blaming Comolli.... Kenny Dalglish - "there is not one player at the club who i didnt agree to signing"

Kenny put himself behind the 8 ball only weeks into his tenure. Its the one issue that dogged him throughout his 18 months in charge and ultimately was what cost him. He brings in a quality forward that A.bangs in the goals, B.compliments Suarez, C.technically good enough on the floor ... more than likely he would still be the manager. Defensively we were strong, it was the lack of quality in the final third that killed us. Suarez played his best games for the club when Carroll wasn't on the field. 2010-11..Fulham away 5-2 when he linked up with Kuyt and Maxi, Man U home 3-1 when he linked up with Kuyt and set up all 3, 2011-12..Arsenal at home 1-2 with Kuyt beside him he tore them apart, Norwich away 3-0 when Gerrard played closes to him. Ball played on the floor with fast link up play (much like with Uruguay where he has Forlan and Cavani to link up with)... the Maxi goal at Chelsea in the league when Bellamy played a one-two with Suarez before putting Maxi in. None of this is Carroll's game. Its too fast, too technical, and too much on the floor.

Its for this reason i believe Rodgers sees no future for Andy Carroll at the club.

[Benny The Noon]

Suarez missed more chances than anyone else in the team - Suarez himself is far from blameless for last season

[D___C]

Luis Suarez had to go it alone in umpteen games as there was no one up close to him. He would spin a defender and run clear.. the slow lumbering geordie 30 yards behind play.... thus the chance being infinitely more difficult when you have to do everything yourself. Furthermore Suarez has had to create his own chances... very few on a plate for him (can think of only Meireles at Arsenal)

If his partner possesses neither the technical ability nor mobility then the player will suffer.

Luis Suarez for Uruguay has better players around him, and looks untouchable. The hat-trick he scored this week was incredible.

The Fulham, Man U, Arsenal, Norwich games (when he did have decent players linking up with him) will become more common with better players around him on a consistent basis.

[heimdall]

[quote="[url=http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1178889#p1178889]ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:22 pm[/url

where did that comment come from?
bit of an over reaction that lad to a mildly sarky comment by benny.

Because the guy jumps on every comment someone makes and has a problem with it. Is that okay??[/quote]

Well its not to cool with homophobic comments but I agree that Benny is an annoying pr1ck.

[Benny The Noon]

Thats rubbish - most of the chances he missed was when Carroll wasnt even playing - its utter ***** to constantly blame Carroll.

Suarez had the worst conversion rate in the whole of the prem last season - that is not Carrolls fault.

Suarez is a greedy player - he always has been - its the reason why he scored so many in Holland.

Carroll was on the bench for half the games last season - Suarez was starting them.

We should not build a team around Suarez.

[Benny The Noon]

[quote="[url=http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1178889#p1178889]ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:22 pm[/url

where did that comment come from?
bit of an over reaction that lad to a mildly sarky comment by benny.

Because the guy jumps on every comment someone makes and has a problem with it. Is that okay??

Well its not to cool with homophobic comments but I agree that Benny is an annoying pr1ck.[/quote]

Im getting pretty ***** off with people coming on here just to insult me - especially when its people like you .

Disagree with what i say by all means and debate why but if people havent got the intelligence and common sense to actually talk properly without throwing insults then dont bother saying anything.

Where have all the mods gone ? Its getting a joke

[D___C]

Contrarian POV.... so with all points reversed and corrected i agree.


Right who is after Carroll...Aston Villa, Newcastle..and Fulham have registered an interest. I think the only other team missing is Stoke. Ive said from day one Carroll is made for Stoke.

[D___C]

Because the guy jumps on every comment someone makes and has a problem with it. Is that okay??

Well its not to cool with homophobic comments but I agree that Benny is an annoying pr1ck.

Benito takes a contrarian POV... always has done, wouldnt call that annoying.

[Benny The Noon]

Contrarian POV.... so with all points reversed and corrected i agree.


Right who is after Carroll...Aston Villa, Newcastle..and Fulham have registered an interest. I think the only other team missing is Stoke. Ive said from day one Carroll is made for Stoke.

dont forget Milan

[mart]

Contrarian POV.... so with all points reversed and corrected i agree.


Right who is after Carroll...Aston Villa, Newcastle..and Fulham have registered an interest. I think the only other team missing is Stoke. Ive said from day one Carroll is made for Stoke.

Didnt west ham say they wanted him?

[D___C]

Ahh yes West Ham

So... Fulham, West Ham, Aston Villa, Newcastle.


Oddly enough (and ive been a critic of his from the moment i saw "Liverpool 30 million bid for Andy Carroll turned down") i hope we keep him for a season anyway to see if he can fit in. Personally i dont think he can (and neither it would appear does Rodgers) but i would rather know for sure. There was a definite sign of improvement at the tail end of the season.

I think the biggest thing against him though is that he is anonymous when the ball is on the floor. The England-Sweden game he barely had a touch... but as soon as one pass is played in the air he comes alive (and it was a trememdous header). Ibrahimovic is in a different league to Andy.

Andy was at the perfect set up with Newcastle... hometown club, a team that played in a manner that catered to him. If they do buy him which will see them reverting back to the way they played when he was there before, they will end up back in midtable.