maguskwt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:15 pm wrote:Do you know why England always underperform at the world stage? exactly because of players like Andy Carroll who are being hyped up in the country... good on the floor
If Andy Carroll is considered good on the floor, English football is doomed...
british footballers are so very much over-rated... Wayne Rooney can score goals and plays like a bull dog sure... british messi though? he's got no intelligence whatsoever...
Alan shearer scored lots of goals in domestic football... but at the world stage? He is probably about the same level as Jan Koller...
The only england internationals worth mentioning in recent times that can be considered as making the grade are Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, David Beckham and Paul Gascoigne...
And even among those 4 only gascoigne has true skills that can unlock defences.
Owen had pace and exceptional finishing. Stevie G had athleticism, passing and overall quality. Beckham had exceptional free kick ability, pin-point crossing and exceptional work-rate... I can't think of anyone else who makes the grade...
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:24 am wrote:maguskwt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:15 pm wrote:Do you know why England always underperform at the world stage? exactly because of players like Andy Carroll who are being hyped up in the country... good on the floor
If Andy Carroll is considered good on the floor, English football is doomed...
british footballers are so very much over-rated... Wayne Rooney can score goals and plays like a bull dog sure... british messi though? he's got no intelligence whatsoever...
Alan shearer scored lots of goals in domestic football... but at the world stage? He is probably about the same level as Jan Koller...
The only england internationals worth mentioning in recent times that can be considered as making the grade are Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, David Beckham and Paul Gascoigne...
And even among those 4 only gascoigne has true skills that can unlock defences.
Owen had pace and exceptional finishing. Stevie G had athleticism, passing and overall quality. Beckham had exceptional free kick ability, pin-point crossing and exceptional work-rate... I can't think of anyone else who makes the grade...
andy carroll is good at retaining the ball with defenders all over him, it`s a tough thing to do and plenty of so called great players dont look so great when they are leading the line and recieving the ball with their backs to goal, your an easy target for defenders.
plus england has had loads of good players, john barnes and peter beardsley played in gasgoignes era (beardsley even played in the same side as him) and what about the likes of gary lineker (top scorer at a world cup and nearly top scorer in 2 world cups) who played alongside gasgoigne or what about the likes of paul scholes? the fact you mention beckham before scholes shows what you know about footy!
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:24 am wrote:maguskwt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:15 pm wrote:Do you know why England always underperform at the world stage? exactly because of players like Andy Carroll who are being hyped up in the country... good on the floor
If Andy Carroll is considered good on the floor, English football is doomed...
british footballers are so very much over-rated... Wayne Rooney can score goals and plays like a bull dog sure... british messi though? he's got no intelligence whatsoever...
Alan shearer scored lots of goals in domestic football... but at the world stage? He is probably about the same level as Jan Koller...
The only england internationals worth mentioning in recent times that can be considered as making the grade are Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, David Beckham and Paul Gascoigne...
And even among those 4 only gascoigne has true skills that can unlock defences.
Owen had pace and exceptional finishing. Stevie G had athleticism, passing and overall quality. Beckham had exceptional free kick ability, pin-point crossing and exceptional work-rate... I can't think of anyone else who makes the grade...
andy carroll is good at retaining the ball with defenders all over him, it`s a tough thing to do and plenty of so called great players dont look so great when they are leading the line and recieving the ball with their backs to goal, your an easy target for defenders.
plus england has had loads of good players, john barnes and peter beardsley played in gasgoignes era (beardsley even played in the same side as him) and what about the likes of gary lineker (top scorer at a world cup and nearly top scorer in 2 world cups) who played alongside gasgoigne or what about the likes of paul scholes? the fact you mention beckham before scholes shows what you know about footy!
maguskwt » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:45 am wrote:ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:24 am wrote:maguskwt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:15 pm wrote:Do you know why England always underperform at the world stage? exactly because of players like Andy Carroll who are being hyped up in the country... good on the floor
If Andy Carroll is considered good on the floor, English football is doomed...
british footballers are so very much over-rated... Wayne Rooney can score goals and plays like a bull dog sure... british messi though? he's got no intelligence whatsoever...
Alan shearer scored lots of goals in domestic football... but at the world stage? He is probably about the same level as Jan Koller...
The only england internationals worth mentioning in recent times that can be considered as making the grade are Michael Owen, Steven Gerrard, David Beckham and Paul Gascoigne...
And even among those 4 only gascoigne has true skills that can unlock defences.
Owen had pace and exceptional finishing. Stevie G had athleticism, passing and overall quality. Beckham had exceptional free kick ability, pin-point crossing and exceptional work-rate... I can't think of anyone else who makes the grade...
andy carroll is good at retaining the ball with defenders all over him, it`s a tough thing to do and plenty of so called great players dont look so great when they are leading the line and recieving the ball with their backs to goal, your an easy target for defenders.
plus england has had loads of good players, john barnes and peter beardsley played in gasgoignes era (beardsley even played in the same side as him) and what about the likes of gary lineker (top scorer at a world cup and nearly top scorer in 2 world cups) who played alongside gasgoigne or what about the likes of paul scholes? the fact you mention beckham before scholes shows what you know about footy!
When I meant by recent times the cut off was gascoigne... yes I like Scholes but i'm afraid he's also another one who performs very good domestically but at the world stage he doesn't outshine the 4 I have mentioned. He is a very very good all-rounder but lacks the cutting edge of Gerrard and Beckham. How many world cup goals did scholes score? I think it was only one in 98... long long time ago... Scholes doesn't outshine Gerrard and Beckham at the international level... that's the fact.
re: Carroll... what is the use if you can receive the ball with your back to the goal and takes eternity to turn with the ball? I can name alot of players who can do it and be more dangerous than Carroll while doing it... for example his namesake Andy Cole, one of the best at turning with the ball, Henry, Ibrahimovic, Torres, our very own and Andy's strike partner Suarez, Adebayor, the other lanky former Arsenal striker whose name escapes me right now... there are alot of players who holds the ball equally well and turns 10 times faster than Carroll...
Defend Carroll all you want but don't make it him out to be something he isn't... he is an average target man not worth 35 million at all. He will probably become as good as Crouch and Heskey but that's about it. Having said that he doesn't need to be all that good if he works hard. If he works hard and gives 110% he can become as good as Kuyt and contribute to the team like he contributed in the FA cup semi... and that's all what most fans want...
RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:49 pm wrote:devaney » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:40 pm wrote:
It's a shame that you have to sarcastically demean Crouchy's performance record to try and win an argument with D_C who frankly should be ignored. Crouchy wasn't the greatest but he worked very hard for the team and whilst 22 goals in 85 matches is not brilliant he doesn't deserve to be belittled.
Its equally shameful you have sat back and allowed him to constantly make snide fucking comments about Carroll ,and yet chose this moment to
intervene by defending Crouchie . I mean would you say the need to defend a current Liverpool player outweighs your haste in championing the cause
of an ex Red Maybe you should have took your own advice and ignored my post ?
Just a suggestion mind .
ethanr » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:41 am wrote:Mag, realize you are naming a list of strikers who are considered some of the best that have ever payed there except maybe Adebayor and, Bentder if you aren't referring to RVP.
But Torres wasn't the same type of stiker Carroll is, neither is suarez, RVP, or Henry. Apples and Oranges a bit here. Target men like Carroll aren't supposed to be the best at turning the ball with speed like that.. Really the only modern big target men who truly flow like you are explaining may be Ibra or Dzeko (who, for his age is way ahead of his time in his position, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's a consistent top goal scorer in the prem for a few years in the near future). Drogba, Anelka, Llorente, are all considered really talented target men, but they aren't know for their ability to quickly turn a defender as much as using their size and power.
I understand what you're saying, and it's something AC can improve on, but we can't expecting him to be twisting and turning like Suarez, because that's not what his type of striker does.
devaney » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:11 pm wrote:
Ffs RBG read the thread. I have castigated Kerry and D_C who are obviously the same person for the utter diatribe of abuse that has been aimed at Carroll. I'm not Andy's biggest fan but even his lacklustre performances do not warrant such distasteful attacks. Andy's contribution against United and Everton in the FA Cup are a key reason we are in the final as I have previously acknowledged.
maguskwt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:15 pm wrote:Do you know why England always underperform at the world stage?
devaney » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:24 am wrote:To be honest RBG I've got fed up with this D_C/Kerry thread and I don't post on it very often now and yes 17 pages probably isn't enough! You need to read the last 150 pages to get a true understanding of my frustrated feelings towards Andy Carroll and idiots like D_C/Kerry who I have accused on numerous occasions of being a bitter blue! My praise for Carroll and criticism of D_C/Kerry after the FA Cup game against Man United is there for all to read.
jacdaniel » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:16 am wrote:maguskwt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:15 pm wrote:Do you know why England always underperform at the world stage?
I dont know whether you were only referring to International football but its much more than that IMO. Despite all Fergie / United's domestic success, they've only won the CL twice. Ourselves and the Mancs are also the only 2 English teams to win the CL as far as I know.
Chelsea have spent hundreds of millions and have still only got to ONE final. (and lost)
During the years of the big 4 (Liverpool, United, Chelsea, Arsenal), the PL was talked up as the best league in the world. Every year the English teams were competing in the CL semi's, finals etc. Only ourselves and United won it.
Barca have won as many CL's since 2006 as all English clubs put together. AC Milan won as many CL's between 2003 - 2007 as Fergie has ever won.
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:jacdaniel » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:16 am wrote:maguskwt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:15 pm wrote:Do you know why England always underperform at the world stage?
I dont know whether you were only referring to International football but its much more than that IMO. Despite all Fergie / United's domestic success, they've only won the CL twice. Ourselves and the Mancs are also the only 2 English teams to win the CL as far as I know.
Chelsea have spent hundreds of millions and have still only got to ONE final. (and lost)
During the years of the big 4 (Liverpool, United, Chelsea, Arsenal), the PL was talked up as the best league in the world. Every year the English teams were competing in the CL semi's, finals etc. Only ourselves and United won it.
Barca have won as many CL's since 2006 as all English clubs put together. AC Milan won as many CL's between 2003 - 2007 as Fergie has ever won.
yeah but lets face it, it was about time barcelona actually started punching their weight in europe, they have been a massive club for donkeys years who often broke transfer records signing players like cruyff, maradona, romario, ronaldo etc but until their recent good run they had won 1 european cup and that was when english clubs were banned.
the two milan clubs have always had a great tradition in europe, even in the 60`s.
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