Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kerry07** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:46 am

ironman wrote:We are officially the worst footballing side Liverpool have ever ever had!!! A negative, make sure we dont lose team.. The big boys say... we believe were better than use... and go for games... It cant get much worse, but it will because some people think this a blip of a season.... &th in the league seems to have passed everyone by.. never thought that would ever happen in my lifetime... and i no the seasons not done.. but to be in this position is embarassing as far as im concerned.... And whats worse is were all just letting it happen... Rafa might think expectations of us all were to high and unrealistic... But we are Liverpool Football Club. Challenging is not a request.. it should be a demand.. yet we still sing Rafas name at Anfield on a good night... on a final note, our style of play, or should i say, lack of, goes against everything our great players and managers have believed in...

Here fecking Here.

Our standards are now so low that after 6 years in charge, sitting 7th in the league with 3 games to go, just suffered our 18th defeat this season, continually picks Lucas and Kuyt in the team, playing awful negative hoofball and one of the worst teams to watch... that our fans sing the managers name.

Could you imagine this on the Kop 20 years ago?? How the mighty have fallen.

Many of our fans irritate me... and the lowering of expectations is dragging us down, accepting mediocrity. When the born winner Gerrard comes out and states many of our players aint good enough (as Roy Keane did at ManU) a huge number of our fans slammed him for doing so. Its the top clubs whose fans DEMAND the best, they dont condone carthorses in their team so they dont get them (and if on the rare occasion they do put on the jersey they dont last long). Its the WINNING drive that gets trophies... we are now at the stage where getting top 4 is a great season and its our fans that have created that yardstick. We are famed (notorious) for giving people time... "Lucas in 5 years time could be close to Danny Murphy level, give the kid time".. so theres 25 years and no league in sight. We give managers, players time ..time... time... when they patently aint good enough. We go beyond the patience level required. This "virtue" of patience and having less demands and condoning mediocrity... lowers the levels of expectation, lowers the levels of performance, lowers the levels of trophies won.

This stuff about "no team has a right to win trophies".. so we should then pipe up, sit back and accept what we're given. LOSERS MENTALITY! Shankly built this club up so we dont condone cr'ap, its why he got rid of Tony Hately after 1 season. We should be aiming for the best... not trying to come up with songs about players who 20 years ago wouldn't have got in the reserve team.

Regards Atletico game... with Aguero, Forlan, Reyes, Simao and Jurado...they will definitely score at least once. With us having Lucas, Ngog and Kuyt in the team.. even with home advantage i dont see us matching them.. so 2-1 to Atletico.

by **Owzat** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:42 am

Was it worth watching that? No. Did anyone have a stand out game? No. Absolutely terrible for the goal, although would nil-nil have made that any more worth watching?!? Where was Kyrgiakos? Where did Johnson think he was? Bombs forward with no regard for defence and the CBs couldn't deal with it despite plenty of chance to clear it. That was park football defending, noone close enough to Forlan who still managed to make a hash of putting it in the back of the net. I thought for a moment it had just gone past the post, but perhaps we were lucky it was only one goal conceded. There was talk Torres might be fit for the final, I think we need to get there first! Rafa lacks serious ambition, he still plays Europe in the mindset of keeping it tight away from home and win the tie at home. But then didn't he say we need to score there?!?!? I think he's playing mindgames with himself, trying to lull himself into a false sense of security before dropping the same bombshell on himself (and the team) that he always does! :laugh:

re "right to win trophies". No team has the right to win trophies, but the bigger clubs have it as an EXPECTATION which isn't unreasonable. Try telling the mancs, Chelsea and goners they shouldn't expect to win trophies when they are the only teams to have won the Premiership in the last FOURTEEN seasons is one of those three, soon to be fifteen. In that same period they've won ELEVEN FA Cups between them and five League Cups not to mention two European Cups. Throw us in the mix and you can add a couple of FA Cups, two League Cups, a UEFA Cup and another European Cup. So why should people knock a simple expectation?!?!? We don't say the league title is our's to lose, or the Champions League, or any trophy. We do expect to be competing for a trophy, we had hoped/expected to be contesting the league title this season and based on last season was that entirely unrealistic?

By the by, that was our EIGHTEENTH defeat of this campaign, with a minimum four games to go we could well equal or beat our worst tally under Rafa of nineteen defeats in 04/05. If we don't lose again our percentage of losses will be near enough the same as it was that season as we played 60 games in 04/05 and we can only play 57 this season if we reach the EDL final.

Most defeats under Rafa

04/05 : 19 in 60 games (31.67%)
09/10 : 18 in 52 games (34.62%)
06/07 : 16 in 58 games (27.59%)
05/06 : 11 in 62 games (17.74%)
07/08 : 9 in 59 games (15.25%)
08/09 : 5 in 55 games (9.09%)

Losing one in every three games is poor for a supposed top (four) club. Of course we have the equal fewest draws in any Rafa season (10 in 09/10 and 05/06) which is back to roughly what it was before 07/08. We'd have to win five more games this season (every game including the final) to equal our previous fewest wins under Rafa, again 04/05. This defeat was one of the more 'acceptable' defeats in terms of results by opposition and venue, but the nature of it was unacceptable in terms of performance. I suppose there is the excuse of a long arduous journey and having to put up with Lucas, but is that really an excuse?!?

by **Owzat** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:03 am

Is Rafa's record in Europe really that good?

Rafa in Europe 04/05-09/10

Qualifiers : P14 W10 D2 L2 F25 A6
Group/L32 : P38 W21 D9 L8 F61 A27
L16 : P12 W8 D0 L4 F19 A8

QF : P10 W5 D3 L2 F21 A14
SF : P7 W2 D2 L3 F5 A6
FIN : P2 W0 D1 L1 F4 A5

Qual-L16 : P64 W39 D11 L14 F105 A41 (Won 60.94%)
QF-Final : P19 W7 D7 L6 F30 A25 (Won 36.84%)

QF wins include PSV home and away, and close wins over Juve, Arsenal and a more comfortable win this season over Benfica. The QFs is where any knockout competition starts in earnest, you can get a tough side but it can often be relatively ordinary sides like Lille, Bayer Leverkeusen or PSV. That said we've had good wins over Madrid and Inter, but the last sixteen split is there if anyone wants to get excited about a record that is good but could be better.

by **TheLad** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:08 am

I refuse to get used to this kind of performances. We need to do something and do it quick. Fire the manager, sell the players.. something. Anything.

by **only me** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:24 am

Emerald Red wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:Never mind the result, so many times this season I've found it hard to believe I'm actually watching LIVERPOOL, the performances have so often been lacking the passion and pride that's always been associated with our club. Tonight was another sub standard toothless performance .......

Ah f'uck it, it was a bag of sh'ite, no cohesion, no invention, no pride, f'uck all desire and even less skill, and it's been like that far too many times this season.

Exactly how I feel, really. It's one thing to defend the players when some of the abuse some of them get is often unjust, but tonight they really p*ssed me clean off. I know Kuyt has admirable heart and drive in games, but FFS his touch drives me absolutely insane, and for a professional player to not be able to take a decent first touch in his stride and hit a decent shot is shocking beyond words.

Babel - I'm lost for words for. Utter, utter joke of a player at times. It strikes me as an even bigger joke that Lucas is usually the one that gets all the stick, but is there a lazier, more inept, frustrating and clumsey player playing for us than Ryan Babel? N'Gog often gets abuse for trying to the best of his ablity and proving to be useful on occasion. Babel gets chances and p*sses them down the drain with shocking displays. He may have this so called potential talent, but I'm done with waiting to see it. Should be on the way out the door in the summer and someone else needs to take his place in the squad that deserves it IMO.

Looking at us tonight really does hit home the need to invest in the side this summer. Gerrad spoke of it, and from what I'm assuming, the 4 or more players required should be ones that put the likes of Kuyt, Lucas, Benayoun and Insua on the bench which is where they should be because they're just not good enough to play week-in-week-out.

Well said the question is if you be willing to entrust the challange of next season in the hands of the same guy who is responsible for all this mess?

This brings us to the our latest "discussion" but i'm really not trying to pick up a fresh fight.

Take Care

by **ironman** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:52 am

Kerry07 wrote:
ironman wrote:We are officially the worst footballing side Liverpool have ever ever had!!! A negative, make sure we dont lose team.. The big boys say... we believe were better than use... and go for games... It cant get much worse, but it will because some people think this a blip of a season.... &th in the league seems to have passed everyone by.. never thought that would ever happen in my lifetime... and i no the seasons not done.. but to be in this position is embarassing as far as im concerned.... And whats worse is were all just letting it happen... Rafa might think expectations of us all were to high and unrealistic... But we are Liverpool Football Club. Challenging is not a request.. it should be a demand.. yet we still sing Rafas name at Anfield on a good night... on a final note, our style of play, or should i say, lack of, goes against everything our great players and managers have believed in...

Here fecking Here.

Our standards are now so low that after 6 years in charge, sitting 7th in the league with 3 games to go, just suffered our 18th defeat this season, continually picks Lucas and Kuyt in the team, playing awful negative hoofball and one of the worst teams to watch... that our fans sing the managers name.

Could you imagine this on the Kop 20 years ago?? How the mighty have fallen.

Many of our fans irritate me... and the lowering of expectations is dragging us down, accepting mediocrity. When the born winner Gerrard comes out and states many of our players aint good enough (as Roy Keane did at ManU) a huge number of our fans slammed him for doing so. Its the top clubs whose fans DEMAND the best, they dont condone carthorses in their team so they dont get them (and if on the rare occasion they do put on the jersey they dont last long). Its the WINNING drive that gets trophies... we are now at the stage where getting top 4 is a great season and its our fans that have created that yardstick. We are famed (notorious) for giving people time... "Lucas in 5 years time could be close to Danny Murphy level, give the kid time".. so theres 25 years and no league in sight. We give managers, players time ..time... time... when they patently aint good enough. We go beyond the patience level required. This "virtue" of patience and having less demands and condoning mediocrity... lowers the levels of expectation, lowers the levels of performance, lowers the levels of trophies won.

This stuff about "no team has a right to win trophies".. so we should then pipe up, sit back and accept what we're given. LOSERS MENTALITY! Shankly built this club up so we dont condone cr'ap, its why he got rid of Tony Hately after 1 season. We should be aiming for the best... not trying to come up with songs about players who 20 years ago wouldn't have got in the reserve team.

Regards Atletico game... with Aguero, Forlan, Reyes, Simao and Jurado...they will definitely score at least once. With us having Lucas, Ngog and Kuyt in the team.. even with home advantage i dont see us matching them.. so 2-1 to Atletico.

Exactly right!!!! Great post!!!

by **Boocity** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:56 am

TBH, I thought we were unlucky not to get a goal, they looked distinctly average and if we had had any ambition we could have buried this tie there and then. I too get frustrated with such negative tactics and Rafa really winds me up with all this note taking because its not as if he is taking notes to make changes were we can win. I think he is either writing his post match speech or his biography.

Ngog is very poor and can someone please tell me why he is in the side ahead of Babel, it seems Rafa just want player who conform to his will, Ngog, Kuyt and Lucas.

by **Owzat** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:51 pm

Boocity wrote:I think he is either writing his post match speech or his biography.

He's probably writing down 'facts' in case he needs to have a little 'rant' at a later date, or write to UEFA

If he is making notes on players then maybe he should ask someone else to do the note-taking and then he should read it afterwards as nothing (significant) changes

EDIT : Or maybe he's searching for inspiration for his CV!

by **Roger Red Hat** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:33 pm

Sudoko - nothing more

lets face it, it bored the t1ts off everyone else

by **dawson99** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:09 pm

s@int wrote:I think we will score the two goals we need quite early, then cling on for dear life to stop them scoring. Nails bitten to the quick, tempers lost , nerves shredded, before we finally get through 2-0.

Or maybe will do it the Liverpool way, conceed an early goal before fighting back for a glorious 3-1 win ?

I rememebr when we did that, i had Rivaldo first goal Liverpool to win 3-1, that paid for my whole summer!

by **parchpea** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm

Last night was just a snapshot of where the team is at right now. We are just an average outfit and games like this are hard so we go out there to either take a draw or a low defeat. The one and only thing this team has to get it through in Europe, or domestically, is the Anfield arena. At least that is still special and can make ordinary players into better ones for at least one nights football. I stated in another thread that the team needs completely rebuilding and last night confirmed it for me. If anyone thinks we hold a false position or theres hope for these lads is just dillusional because we got dumped out of the Champs League and sit 7th in the Premiership for good reason. It was a desperate spectacle and to hear Benitez say its difficult without Torres does not wash at all because its his job to make sure we have cover and frankly finding a better player than Ngog would not have been difficult. Honestly the kids out of his depth and its embarassing to watch him floundering away up there on his own.

by **tonyeh** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:45 pm

Another lifeless, boring, conservative, negative, overly defensive, Benitez inspired game under the belt.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:37 pm

the anfield arena is an ok theory until the final, then were fuked - when Fulham beat us.

by **ironman** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:33 pm

The manager of our club needs to no he does NOT have the support of our crowd.... yes, we continue to support the boys on the field as always... but when we continue to sing this mans name when were winning he thinks he answers to no one... We are far to patient.. GH stayed on a season to long for sure.. 5 yrs on and were further away from the Premiership... no other big clubs would have this... one question for everyone please.. If and its only a IF, we get finance in and get some millions to spend, would you trust Rafa with this?? i wouldnt.. the Aqualani situation is nothing sort of embarassing, a 23 million signing not getting a sniff, Robbie Keane last season,Babel in and out, and im not going into the average players he has brought in. ok. Skertil,Dossena, Deggan, Aurelio, Ngog, Lucas, Insua, Kyut, Maxi, The only true quality we posess is Reina, a sliding Carra, Agger, Masch, Gerrard, Torres, and again, our counter attacking style is so negative, i watch us now and its like watching paint dry most of the time.. He needs to move on, but wont, simply because he feels he has the supporters support.. No Champions league football for our club is a disaster, the thought of it depresses me personally... :no

by **Boocity** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:42 pm

ironman wrote:No Champions league football for our club is a disaster, the thought of it depresses me personally...

Me too

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