Liverpool FC Forum

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:57 pm

Robbed of RAWK.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:58 pm

not really sure if I should laugh or cry mate

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:02 pm

s@int wrote: not really sure if I should laugh or cry mate

i put it in the wrong thread mate , was meant to go in the footy kits one . Oh well it will do in here aswell

by **leep33** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:24 am

We need serious investment in the team for us to compete next season, and whilst we have these owners that is not going to happen.

by **Sabre** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:46 am

So what about next term? If we got ourselves up to third and kind of in the title race up to and including Christmas say, would people at that point say we are "progressing" again, or would we have to get back to the level we achieved last season in order for this one to be a blip?

Yes, but I won't put the quotes to "progressing".

If Rafa stayed, which I doubt, and he brought back Liverpool to the ways of last season, AND a title, I'd say we've progressed since the post Houllier times.

And I would feel a big relief, not because that would mean Rafa stays, but because we'd still be able to bring top quality players like Torres.

by **roberto green** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:51 am

My sentiments totally echo Igors

by **DrPepe** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:02 pm

Owzat wrote:Depends what you consider our standard (under Rafa) He's taken us from a top 3-5 club to a top 3-5 club, winning the occaisional trophy. If we finish 5th then it will be below average, but our normal position is 3rd.

RAFA BENITEZ (PREMIERSHIP 04/05-08/09)

2nd (x1) : 08/09
3rd (x2) : 05/06, 06/07
4th (x1) : 07/08
5th (x1) : 04/05

Points : 58 (04/05), 82 (05/06), 68 (06/07), 76 (07/08), 86 (08/09)
Average : 74

GERARD HOULLIER (PREMIERSHIP 99/00-03/04)

2nd (x1) : 01/02
3rd (x1) : 00/01
4th (x2) : 99/00, 03/04
5th (x1) : 02/03

Points : 67 (99/00), 69 (00/01), 80 (01/02), 64 (02/03), 60 (03/04)
Average : 68

While we might be six points per season better off under Rafa than Houllier's last five seasons, how much extra spending did those points cost and of course since the league positions are much the same then it is more likely just a sign of increasing points totals for the 'big four' - needing more points to maintain the same league positions, the last five Champions average 90.4 points compared to the previous five Champions averaging 86.2 points. You can argue Rafa has the 'big one' in terms of European trophies and another final to his name, but in terms of what they both came here for (to win the league), the above is the only comparison needs making. Both finished top four in four out of the five seasons listed, so how exactly have we 'progressed' under Rafa? More pleasing on the eye? More robust? Closer to the league? Maybe therein lies a comparison.

Liverpool vs Champions points comparison

99/00 : Liverpool 67, Champions 81 (-14)
00/01 : Liverpool 69, Champions 80 (-11)
01/02 : Liverpool 80, Champions 87 (-7)
02/03 : Liverpool 64, Champions 83 (-19)
03/04 : Liverpool 60, Champions 90 (-30)

04/05 : Liverpool 58, Champions 95 (-37)
05/06 : Liverpool 82, Champions 91 (-9)
06/07 : Liverpool 68, Champions 89 (-21)
07/08 : Liverpool 76, Champions 87 (-11)
08/09 : Liverpool 86, Champions 90 (-4)

Both on average 16 points behind the Champions, although you might have to allow Rafa a little slack because it was his first season whereas Houllier had a season settling in albeit shared for a while with Roy Evans (I suspect Houllier had more than equal say/copntrol, can't imagine him taking a job under any other conditions) Every season Rafa has taken us beyond 80 points in a season he has followed up with less than 70 - with seven games to go the most we can finish on this season is 72, to do that we'd have to win six minimum (and draw one) or all seven which given this season seems quite unlikely.

That isn't to say Rafa isn't a better manager than Houllier, but the evidence he has taken us any closer to winning the league is lacking credibility. Whether or not that is purely due to financial constraints is debatable, but many use that excuse almost as a Rafa equivalent of a birthright that won't expire until the owners change, and even then only maybe.

So in answer to the question, I guess it depends where you think he should have been this season. We were lulled into thinking we might make a bigger title challenge this season, perhaps to compensate a poor season he would need to win it next season. Or are we going to have to be content with getting back to where we had been and should have been this season?!?!?!? I think he'll be on his way in the summer, if so then the levels of expectation for next season may well have to take a slight hit and perhaps be reset to 4th which has been our level for EIGHT of the past 10 seasons and TWELVE of the last 15 seasons, so it's not as if Rafa has been raising the bar (that much)

You could almost say that we've taken such a downturn on standard levels that this is almost back to square one.

good thread.

i reckon we will see much better football next season - aqua and johnson more settled and the new striker arriving.

i hope this will mean we'll be closer to the top in terms of points. however, will it translate to a top2/3 finish?

Expectations had to change for Rafa compared to houllier given the rise of chelsea - and now the rise of citeh must alter expectations again. man city will be another transfer window stronger , as will the the traditional big2

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How well would we have to go next season.. - For this one to be considered a bliiiip?

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