Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:36 am

Couple of things Bav. Firstly I've never bought into this "but nobody else would manage us" angle. I simply don't believe it. Equally this thing about a "yes" man. I think Rafa has become much more of a yes man after his toys out of the pram routines fell on deaf ears. These days you hear him extolling the virtues of paring down the debt etc (although admittedly usually to excuse the fact we aren't competitive on thne pitch).

Also I see you're running with this "a manager who could win us the league" angle. That may be beyond any manager you bring in who knows, but I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for a manager who can at least get us into the race more than one time in six. Anyway I can't be b othered going over it all again any more than I'm sure you can be bothered reading it all again.

If "the owners is the priority" means we stick with Rafa for the forseeable, I can't agree with that option. Another couple of years of this manager, and we really could be a mid table club. Quite how anyone expects wealthy benefactors (which no club other than Man City currently has, we aren't on our own) to come in and rescue us under those circumstances I don't know. At least if we had a manager who had moderate success, the value of the club would appreciate which would make it MORE LIKELY that these owners would be bought out. My feeling is that having a successful manager should be top of your list if you really want someone to buy the club.

by **bigmick** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:50 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Do you worry about the future of the club under these owners Mick , or do you think it's a cunning ploy by pro rafa supporters to deflect attention away from the manager , in essence do you think we are making it up ? If the answer is yes then i think that's a pretty big blag by alot of people from a lot of parts of the world . If the answer is no ,then how can you put getting rid of rafa on the same level as getting rid of the owners .

I'll give you alternative owners aswell . You and me mate £500 a share , or £50 over ten months ,sorted.

Are you so concerned by who the manager is or is not or what he is at fault for that you say it is just as important as getting rid of the owners .

Lastly do you think SOS are a pro rafa movement ?

Igor I worry about the future of the club both on the pitch and off it, but as these owners have an extreme vested interest in making sure it doesn't go completely pair shaped my guess is that it probably won't. Doesn't mean their antics don't concern me because they do, but my guess is they'll make sure there is still something to sell once the dust settles.

I don't think the criticism of the owners is dreamt up to take pressure off the manager no, but I do think it's an inevitable consequence that it does. My own feeling is that were it not for the ownership issue muddying the waters, Benitez would have been long gone.

The £500 a share thing is an interesting idea and one I wouldn't be against, but until there is a credible framework for it and people in place who can be taken seriously in terms of running a multi million pound business, it's just a pipe dream mate. Equally, anybody who thinks fans are likely to put up £500 in their thousands and then trust the spending of it (because presumeably the transfer budget will come out of it) to Benitez has got to be off their rocker to be honest. In this respect and this respect only, I have sympathy with the owners. The manager cries his eyes out that signing people takes too long. They back him and he takes total control over all negotiations, then he signs two 20 million poun d players and decides he doesn't want them any more. Under those circumstances, I don't think I'd be stumping up loads of cash if I was them either.

As for SOS, yes I do think it is a pro Rafa organisation largely yes. Equally, like all collections of indegenous Liverpool supporters I have no doubt there will be a significant anti-ooter element to it as well (I say both of these things knowing full well there'll be uproar but there it is). I actually think the anti-ooter sentiments have had an effect on stifling the growth of the club too, but that's another debate.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:05 am

bigmick wrote:[

As for SOS, yes I do think it is a pro Rafa organisation largely yes. Equally, like all collections of indegenous Liverpool supporters I have no doubt there will be a significant anti-ooter element to it as well (I say both of these things knowing full well there'll be uproar but there it is). I actually think the anti-ooter sentiments have had an effect on stifling the growth of the club too, but that's another debate.

Right i asked this question delibrately mate , because i suspected this was one of your concerns .

I just want to dispell a couple of myths if i can .

Indigenous meaning scouse only right . Sorry mate but we've over 4,500 paying members from every corner of the globe . We've over 22,000 members on facebook from all over the globe . In the last AGM it was voted in to set up branches all over the globe where there are more than fifty and no more than 100 members in one area ,so they can vote on issues . Show me where on this site http://www.spiritofshankly.com/index.html (don't know if you looked on it before) where is say's or where anyone has said you can't be an oot to be a member . You tell me where any member of SOS in an officail capacity has said anything whatsoever anti oot .

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:11 am

Just to add aswell mick that this staement is on the home page of the SOS website.

Why should Liverpool supporters join the union? In a nutshell, if we stand together and speak with one voice, regardless of language or accent, we can make a genuine difference to our football club, the city of Liverpool and indeed the wider footballing world.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:14 am

To me its a bit like travelling through the jungle, you find that you have two huge leeches(the owners) on your back just out of reach sucking your blood and making you weaker and a stone in your shoe(Rafa) thats causing you pain. You also have a tiger(banks/administration) following you, so what do you do?

You can't get the leeches off your back till you get to a village, if you stop and take the stone out of your shoe you will proceed faster, but the tiger may get you while you are stopped, if you don't stop, the pain from the stone may get even worse, and all the time you are getting weaker because of the blood sucking leeches.

disclaimer :- I have never been through the jungle, never had a leech on my back or been chased by a tiger...... I have however had a stone in my shoe.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:16 am

True colours are never a pretty sight ,however resplendent people profess them to be ,I have been educated tonight and I sign off disappointed especially considering in the past I have personally had to refute the ooters claim on this very forum ,Scousers might be many things but to put them forward as an excuse for not supporting the ensuing fight ,I find that unforgivable
Goodnight people

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:21 am

s@int wrote:To me its a bit like travelling through the jungle, you find that you have two huge leeches(the owners) on your back just out of reach sucking your blood and making you weaker and a stone in your shoe(Rafa) thats causing you pain. You also have a tiger(banks/administration) following you, so what do you do?

You can't get the leeches off your back till you get to a village, if you stop and take the stone out of your shoe you will proceed faster, but the tiger may get you while you are stopped, if you don't stop, the pain from the stone may get even worse, and all the time you are getting weaker because of the blood sucking leeches.

disclaimer :- I have never been through the jungle, never had a leech on my back or been chased by a tiger...... I have however had a stone in my shoe.

Great analogy saint mate , but are you saying take the stone out first and risk getting eaten by the tiger or pull the leeches off while your still moving so the tiger can't get you . Anyway you can always take the stone out of your shoe once the army ants(us the supporters ) have carried you safely away from the jungle to your new mud hut in the oasis that is stanley park and you can by new trabs that don't let in stones.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:04 am

The problem with the owners has to me become a very complex one mate. My worries started from when they first lied about buying the club on credit , then we had the lies about the stadium and (when most people came on board ) when they looked to replace Rafa for non-footballing reasons. Since then however they have paid off part of the loan and given Rafa a very generous 5 year contract. It's a bit like a burglar dropping some of the stuff they stole, not because they wanted to, but because they thought it might make escape easier.

The reason it has got very complex is that the only people who seem interested in doing business with our owners seem to be as bad (if thats possible) as what we have. People say they worry about what manager the owners would choose if Rafa left, my worry is what kind of owner will they choose when all they are interested in is the money. I really don't believe we will get the kind of owner that we all thought DIC would have been now. I think while we must continue to press the owners to sell, we must also be aware of who they sell to.

Paying the debt down and building the new stadium has to be our first priority (even above buying David Villa

) and while we can't ensure that our new owners/investors have that as THEIR priority, S.O.S. must try to get that message across. At the moment it seems almost as if we are resigned to the fact that ANY new owner must be better than what we have, my worry is they may be even worse.

Yes we need money or we will eventually "do a Leeds", but the right owners with the right intentions with a little less money might be better than rich owners who just see us as a cash cow. The problem is our owners would sell to the devil if he offered 2p more than our White Knight.

I didn't answer the question properly before, but for me mate it has to be the owners who take priority , but we need to be very careful that its not out of the frying pan.......into the fire.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:53 am

Do I really need to say which one I picked?

I see 4 picked Rafa. Disgrace.

by **zarababe** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:31 am

This whole place is a f'ukin disgrace - die hard kopites sing Rafa's name and these have chosen his successor - shameful. Rafa may or may not go at the end of the season, but to be disloyal to the cause, by-heck this place is unbelievable - gutter press !

by **Zidane** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:37 am

Owners, easy. Ultimately we won't win anything unless we are heavily invested in, regardless of manager. Simple as end of story.

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:55 am

just to let people know, if your going the game on sunday there will be a stay behind to protest against the owners, sky camaras will be there so lets send a message to G&T sat back at home in the USofA.

Liverpool football club is in the wrong hands

by **tubby** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:42 am

bigmick wrote:Couple of things Bav. Firstly I've never bought into this "but nobody else would manage us" angle. I simply don't believe it. Equally this thing about a "yes" man. I think Rafa has become much more of a yes man after his toys out of the pram routines fell on deaf ears. These days you hear him extolling the virtues of paring down the debt etc (although admittedly usually to excuse the fact we aren't competitive on thne pitch).

Also I see you're running with this "a manager who could win us the league" angle. That may be beyond any manager you bring in who knows, but I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for a manager who can at least get us into the race more than one time in six. Anyway I can't be b othered going over it all again any more than I'm sure you can be bothered reading it all again.

If "the owners is the priority" means we stick with Rafa for the forseeable, I can't agree with that option. Another couple of years of this manager, and we really could be a mid table club. Quite how anyone expects wealthy benefactors (which no club other than Man City currently has, we aren't on our own) to come in and rescue us under those circumstances I don't know. At least if we had a manager who had moderate success, the value of the club would appreciate which would make it MORE LIKELY that these owners would be bought out. My feeling is that having a successful manager should be top of your list if you really want someone to buy the club.

Ok maybe I worded that first part wrong. There will always be someone willing to manage us, but we don't want to settle for anyone. You say you want him to challange for the league more often, that implicates that the prospective manager has to be at least a top 4 quality manager. A manager of that quality is not going to touch us with a barge pole if we have owners who have been known to mess the manager around.

by **kazza** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:49 am

Obviously the owners. They are the only real threat to the club's progress.

by **Sabre** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:17 am

My priority in this forum will be talking about Liverpool, their crowd (1), their games, their signings.

My priority outside this forum since I'm not a supporter who can be there for real action, is to support the ones who can make a difference, Spirit of Shankly. For instance I see they're looking for translators to other languages, and I'd gladly help them for free so that their message reach to abroad fans.

That is, the little bits I can do to help, are outside this forum, I can't really see how posting here to get rid the owners I can help.

And to answer the question, my option would be the owners, of course.

(1) Including the protests that are made in Anfield of course.

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