Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:49 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:how do you know Benitez's contract was shiny anyway

The devil's contracts are always shiny and signed in blood when you sell your soul mate...... at least mine was

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:55 pm

The purpose of this thread was to distinguish whether or not Mourinho with his obvious virtues ,and I might add no little capability in a management capacity ,is or would be a viable option for Liverpool football Club ,but given our current monetary status and the huge fall from grace Liverpool are experiencing due to the sheer disinterest of the owners or should I say self interest ... then it is virtually as a possible move for the club now dead in the water ,as should be this thread

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:57 pm

s@int wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:how do you know Benitez's contract was shiny anyway

The devil's contracts are always shiny and signed in blood when you sell your soul mate...... at least mine was

I get that mate ,I do

that's why I am playing the role of devils advocate

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:00 pm

It maybe the chance Mourinho as been waiting for mate. Chance to prove he can do it with a club in disaray and little money. Chance to build something meaningful out of the rubble of a once proud club. Chance to prove he is infact "the special one" and not just another "lucky manager" who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Chance to prove he can make the pheonix rise from the flames. Thats more chances than we have created all season

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:06 pm

s@int wrote:It maybe the chance Mourinho as been waiting for mate. Chance to prove he can do it with a club in disaray and little money. Chance to build something meaningful out of the rubble of a once proud club. Chance to prove he is infact "the special one" and not just another "lucky manager" who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Chance to prove he can make the pheonix rise from the flames. Thats more chances than we have created all season

Do you think he has that in his locker though Saint ,to succeed with little or no funds ,I know people mention Porto as an example but they where or remain one of the richest in the Portuguese league

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:18 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
s@int wrote:It maybe the chance Mourinho as been waiting for mate. Chance to prove he can do it with a club in disaray and little money. Chance to build something meaningful out of the rubble of a once proud club. Chance to prove he is infact "the special one" and not just another "lucky manager" who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Chance to prove he can make the pheonix rise from the flames. Thats more chances than we have created all season

Do you think he has that in his locker though Saint ,to succeed with little or no funds ,I know people mention Porto as an example but they where or remain one of the richest in the Portuguese league

I don't really know mate, but I do believe the team and players we have are much better than they are showing, and that we are not as far away as many people think GIVEN THE RIGHT MANAGER.

We have 4 top/world class players(Reina/Gerrard/Torres/Masch) another 3 or 4 who are more than good enough to be in a title winning team ( Carra/Agger/Johnson possibly Aquilani or Benny)

What we need is not £100's of millions to spend but belief, motivation, a plan "b", and getting the best out of the players we do have coupled with one or two astute buys. I think Rafa has shown that he makes too many mistakes to progress any further on a limited budget, time to bring someone in who can do more with less.

Admittedly the £100's of millions would help too

by **LFC2007** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:21 pm

s@int wrote:But after he was first offered a new contract. So it makes it even worse that he would say something like that just to enhance his chances of getting just what he wanted. (imo)

You just argued that he didn't mind (indeed "was happy") the fans protested, so as to enhance his prospects of a new deal. Now you're saying he wanted to discourage or quieten protests in order to enhance his chances of a new deal.

That's a direct contradiction.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:22 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
s@int wrote:It maybe the chance Mourinho as been waiting for mate. Chance to prove he can do it with a club in disaray and little money. Chance to build something meaningful out of the rubble of a once proud club. Chance to prove he is infact "the special one" and not just another "lucky manager" who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Chance to prove he can make the pheonix rise from the flames. Thats more chances than we have created all season

I would liken Mourinho's predicament as one of a successful Lawyer with a near perfect track record ,would the Lawyer take a case which possibly could tarnish his substantial success ratio and in general damage the reputation he now holds ,its a huge risk Saint sure the rewards would be immeasurable if he succeeds ,but if he fails its a long way to claw your way back up ,and at the moment he is at the top of the tree ... along I might add with Benitez as one of the most coveted managers in European Football

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:29 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
s@int wrote:But after he was first offered a new contract. So it makes it even worse that he would say something like that just to enhance his chances of getting just what he wanted. (imo)

You just argued that he didn't mind (indeed "was happy") the fans protested, so as to enhance his prospects of a new deal. Now you're saying he wanted to discourage or quieten protests in order to enhance his chances of a new deal.

That's a direct contradiction.

No mate , he was happy the fans protested when his job was on the line, as soon as he knew it was safe (a new contract HAD been offered) he wanted the fans to stop protesting "as it distracted the team". Made him seem like a "team player" to H&G. Sold his soul and sold the club down the river. Now its BUSINESS he talks about as he sings from the same hymn book as his partner in crime Hicks.

No contradiction...... at least not from me.

by **tubby** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:33 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
s@int wrote:It maybe the chance Mourinho as been waiting for mate. Chance to prove he can do it with a club in disaray and little money. Chance to build something meaningful out of the rubble of a once proud club. Chance to prove he is infact "the special one" and not just another "lucky manager" who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Chance to prove he can make the pheonix rise from the flames. Thats more chances than we have created all season

Do you think he has that in his locker though Saint ,to succeed with little or no funds ,I know people mention Porto as an example but they where or remain one of the richest in the Portuguese league

Not to mention they were already part of a handful of the same teams that compete year in year out. It's like taking over :censored:

Rangers or Celtic. He'd be crazy to come here under the present ownership, any top manager would tbh.

by **LFC2007** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:30 pm

s@int wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
s@int wrote:But after he was first offered a new contract. So it makes it even worse that he would say something like that just to enhance his chances of getting just what he wanted. (imo)

You just argued that he didn't mind (indeed "was happy") the fans protested, so as to enhance his prospects of a new deal. Now you're saying he wanted to discourage or quieten protests in order to enhance his chances of a new deal.

That's a direct contradiction.

No mate , he was happy the fans protested when his job was on the line, as soon as he knew it was safe (a new contract HAD been offered) he wanted the fans to stop protesting "as it distracted the team". Made him seem like a "team player" to H&G. Sold his soul and sold the club down the river. Now its BUSINESS he talks about as he sings from the same hymn book as his partner in crime Hicks.

No contradiction...... at least not from me.

It strikes me as a rather elaborate cynicism, mate.

Protest at a match or no protest at a match, opposition to the owners wouldn't have cooled and indeed it has since grown. Asking SOS, therefore, to consider how one protest at one match might affect the team would not by any reasonable standard have influenced contract negotiations in Rafa's favour. The most reasonable explanation is that we were at a very important point in our season in which we need our support focussed on getting behind the players as best as possible. Let's be clear here, too, Rafa didn't ask SOS not to protest, he asked them to be aware of any impact on the players - implying a protest could still take place at the match as long as it didn't unduly affect the team. It doesn't surprise me that a 'bear in mind' comment thought nothing of by most people could be interpreted as an act of manipulation. By the same logic, one could argue that the 'leaked' threat that you would delete your account was never going to be carried through with and was merely an attempt to garner support for the 'cause', but I don't think like that.

It's also worth pointing out, I think, that simply because someone wants to be well rewarded - as you might argue with Rafa's contract- it doesn't mean one can't also be honest and principled. I say this well aware of the mistrust with which many figures of authority - particularly those who we can't quite work out, or understand - are held.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:58 pm

Just try looking at the facts :-

1. When he was in danger of losing his job, did he care about "distracting his players then ? He wore a tracksuit, encouraged articles about his position and who had been offered it. Congratulated and thanked the fans for their support.

2. He then told players NOT TO SIGN new contracts until he had.

3. Joined forces with Hicks

Once he had the offer of a new contract, suddenly it becomes distracting to the players to have fans protesting.

Since getting his new contract, instead of protesting about the lack of funds, he now considers football a business and congratulates the owners :- " The majority of clubs are now run like companies. You have to think about football and business, both things together. This year we have done a fantastic job trying to balance the books and to do the right job for the company."

Now its :-‘I don’t agree with people when they say you have to win trophies.’ Sounds a bit like Hick's statement "You don't even have to win a championship every year to draw the fans. "

sold his soul and sold our club down the river.(imo)

BTW I didn't threaten I would delete my account, I asked to have my account deleted, BEFORE I mentioned it to anyone.

by **LFC2007** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:59 pm

I have looked at the relevant facts and I believe I've come to the most likely conclusion. It doesn't mean my explanation is true, but in my estimation the explanation I provide - that Rafa meant what he said to SOS because he felt it in the best interests of the team - is likely to be closer to the truth than yours - which is that Rafa tried to manipulate our supporters so he could get a favourable contract offer and that in doing so he "got into bed with H&G" and "sold his soul and the club down the river".

Briefly to address your 'additional' points:

Simply because he made one comment (hearsay) at one point doesn't mean that at other times he wouldn't have liked SOS to consider the effect of protests during a match.

He wore a tracksuit?! Good thinking, must've been eying that new contract - those tracksuit bottoms were bound to seduce Hicks? :Oo:

Enough of the negation, though, my point is that 1) No question Rafa wanted a rewarding contract, but one that was designed to enable him to fulfill his footballing ambitions with us. 2) No question he had to play a careful game with the owners, without compromising his relationship with the fans.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:45 pm

One minor point..... I said joined forces with Hicks NOT H&G mate. My understanding is that he joined with Hicks not Gillett.

He signed a contract that didn't guarantee him funding, but guaranteed his silence ......hardly the actions of a man of principle who puts the fans and fulfilling his football ambitions first. His public refusal of contracts and the demand that his salary be paid in Euro's then pounds adds to the impression that his willingness to sign was more about money rather than what was best for the fans and the club.

I said at the time that it was a disgrace to tell players not to sign new contracts until he had ...... and I STILL BELIEVE THAT. I also believe that you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

I think he's got you fooled mate

by **roberto green** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:46 pm

bavlondon wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
s@int wrote:It maybe the chance Mourinho as been waiting for mate. Chance to prove he can do it with a club in disaray and little money. Chance to build something meaningful out of the rubble of a once proud club. Chance to prove he is infact "the special one" and not just another "lucky manager" who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Chance to prove he can make the pheonix rise from the flames. Thats more chances than we have created all season

Do you think he has that in his locker though Saint ,to succeed with little or no funds ,I know people mention Porto as an example but they where or remain one of the richest in the Portuguese league

Not to mention they were already part of a handful of the same teams that compete year in year out. It's like taking over Rangers or Celtic. He'd be crazy to come here under the present ownership, any top manager would tbh.

To me Mourinho plays to the fans, he has a big ego that's for sure but he loves all the attention he receives and that's were our fans come in, look back as far to the Carling cup final when he held his finger to his mouth i think that's when he first realised how "special" our fans were and if he needed reminding he only had to wait a few months later to the semi final of the champions league were he was blown away by the atmosphere of the fans, Mourinho would love to have fans as noisy on a champions league night behind him, I really think he is waiting in the wings for this job.....

Well i certainly hope so

:help

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