Liverpool FC Forum

by **metalhead** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:48 pm

Gerrard is just not up to it anymore, especially against Wigan on Monday night. That is not captain like, and he needs to pull some strings even if he is p!ssed off.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:56 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:World class players aged 30 in 2010

I'll group by nationality (i.e. whether they play for their country), restrict to FIFAs top 10 and whether they play Champions League.

Brazil
Júlio César
Lucio
Ronaldinho

Spain
Xavi

Italy
Buffon
Cannavaro
Zambrotta

Germany
Ballack

France
Henry
Anelka

England
Ferdinand
Gerrard

Argentina
Samuel

Hardly any 30+ world class players

It's true to say that very few of them are at their peak. Xavi is the obvious exception.

The question really should be whether or not Gerrard will still be able to produce top notch performances, whether they compare with his very best or otherwise, and he will, no doubt about it. He just needs the right conditions to do so.

by **LittleHobo** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:57 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:as a world class player, i believe he is finished

as a very good player he isnt finished

il bring this thread up in a year and maybe then you will agree with me

in a year, cool

I'll create a thread now saying Torres is finished and bring it up in 10 years yeh?

in a year gerrard will be 30.......(and how many world class 30 year olds can you name?)

so really my prediction is a little obvious i guess

World class players aged 30 in 2010

I'll group by nationality (i.e. whether they play for their country), restrict to FIFAs top 10 and whether they play Champions League.

Brazil
Júlio César
Lucio
Ronaldinho

Spain
Puyol
Xavi

Netherlands
Van Bommel

Italy
Buffon
Cannavaro
Gattuso
Pirlo
Zambrotta

Germany
Ballack
Klose

Portugal
Ferreira
Miguel
Simao

France
Abidal
Henry
Anelka
Vieira??

England
Terry
Ferdinand
Gerrard
Lampard
Beckham

Argentina
Heinze
Samuel
Milito
Zanetti

Greece
Kyriagos

Hardly any 30+ world class players

god what a shocking list

depends on what defines "world class" i guess, for me world class = could walk into any team in the world, club and international

from that list there is probaly only 1 who would walk into any team in the world.........XAVI

by **Greavesie** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:15 pm

Lucio was top drawer against Chelsea mate, looked absolutely quality.
Milito was being touted all over the world and linked to everyone
Ronaldinho was class against the Mancs - certainly looked world class to me
I'd take Puyol tomorrow, though the general opinion is that he's overrated
Buffon is amazing.
Terry and Rio are at the core of thier respective teams' defence and have been very successful - could walk into any side

I can't even be bothered to comment about the rest

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:25 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:Gerrard isnt trying though currently, picking up his 100k a week and not really playing like he cares........

i dont think being pissssed off that he has to play with lucas and kuyt is an excuse for currently not trying and passing like carlton palmer

Being surrounded by dross drags you down.. thats fact.

Both Gerrard and Torres are hugely disillusioned and frustrated.. as the ilk of lucas, kuyt ruin moves, collapse plays, contribute nothing and provide sweet f$$k all service... this builds frustration in quality players who have to play with them.

I feel nothing but sympathy for Gerrard/Torres... they cannot perform with such a handicap.

You talk dross more like. He was surrounded by pure sh*te through Houllier's reign, and more or less the same players the past 3 seasons and played amazing, so you're making no valid point whatsoever here.

*ahem*.. i repeat. Gerrard stated in late November he was "devastated" Alonso was no longer at the club...and blamed losing him for our nosedive. Gerrard ain't stupid, he knows he aint getting the service of old, and that the downgrade to lucas (a poor mans Danny Murphy) has been catastrophic for the team.

From Redknapp to Hamann to McAllister to Alonso... there has always been that quality/composed top passer in midfield, who feeds Gerrard who then bombs on. This year there is no one, hes been starved of service and he has suffered for it bigtime.

This season hes playing infront of the worst, least creative Liverpool central midfield since the dark days of Souness as manager

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/england/41433/default.aspx

Gerrard: I was devastated by Alonso departure

Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard has revealed he was devastated by Xabi Alonso's departure to Real Madrid this summer.

The 27-year-old Spaniard was reportedly close to leaving Anfield 12 month's ago with Aston Villa skipper Gareth Barry expected to join the Merseysiders.

However, neither move materialised, with Alonso going on to have one of his best seasons in a Liverpool shirt, anchoring Rafael Benitez's outfit to within a whisker of pipping Manchester United to the Premier League title.

The former Real Sociedad midfielder - who has won 64 caps for Spain - did finally leave Liverpool this year, joining Karim Benzema, Kaka and Cristiano Ronaldo as part of Real's £200 million summer spending spree.

And Gerrard has confessed that seeing his midfield partner depart for pastures new was difficult to take.

"Devastated, yeah. Devastated. But there was nothing I could do about it," he said in the December issue of FourFourTwo magazine, out today.

"Xabi said a long time ago that he wanted another chapter in his career and finally he got it and his team-mates and the coaches couldn't stand in his way. We just have to say thanks and move forward without him."

Alonso's exit has coincided with the Reds' disastrous start to the 2009/10 campaign, with five league defeats already three more than they suffered in the whole of last season, while losses to Fiorentina and Lyon in the Champions League group phase have left their hopes of European glory in serious doubt.

The Spaniard's absence - combined with injuries to both Gerrard and striker Fernando Torres - has been highlighted as one of the key reasons behind the club's dismal early season form.

And Gerrard says it is only now - with Alonso gone - that some people are beginning to realise just how influential a player he was.

"It's always going to be different when you lose one of the best players in the world - and people are finally realising that's what he is, on the back of his form for Real Madrid and the difference in us from last year," he said.

"We've got other midfielders here doing a good job but it will take a while before Alonso's out of our system because he was such a top player.

"Defensively, because of his intelligence at picking up his positions, he was so good at protecting the central defenders.

"And going forward, he was one of the best passers of the ball I've ever seen; someone who could create something out of nothing.

"He was sometimes underrated when he was here because of Torres, but when you play with him and without him you realise how much he meant to you, both as a player and the team as a whole."

-----------------------------------------------------

Think i value Gerrard's comments a tad more than any "expert" on a fans forum.

Repeat what you want, you were talking bollox as per usual.

I'm also done with being diplomatic in my responses on this site. It's f*cking pointless with the amount of shyte being spewed day in day out.

Couple of facts: Gerrard is not finished. being 30, or close to 30 years of age in the modern game does not mean you are about to collect a f*cking pension and your legs are going to drop off due to rot. The player is still young and in his prime. It's not like years ago when players just went out after a game and got blitzed on their drink or drug of choice. That carry on took its toll on individuals and so the stigma of being 30 in the game and past it stuck. Today players look after themselves far better. Another fact is this: no player is bigger than the team or club. If Gerrard can't sort himself out and start putting in an effort, or stop sulking, then he wants to either f*ck off or make it clear to the manager that he no longer wants to play for this club and start acting like a proffessional. He's on over 100k a week and carrying on like a brat. Some fella on SSN earlier put things into perspective after getting laid off by Portsmouth by saying he's on in a year what a player makes in three days. F*ckin joke some of these players.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:36 pm

Also, we need better players anyway so when he eventually calls time on his career - if he's still with us - we shouldn't be in a position where we rely on him more than we really should. And even if in that time he doesn't reach the highs of previous seasons he should still be able to fill the experienced midfield role for many years to come, like Giggs, Scholes have done and like Gary Mac did well into his 30s.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:43 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Also, we need better players anyway so when he eventually calls time on his career - if he's still with us - we shouldn't be in a position where we rely on him more than we really should. And even if in that time he doesn't reach the highs of previous seasons he should still be able to fill the experienced midfield role for many years to come, like Giggs, Scholes have done and like Gary Mac did well into his 30s.

Very true, this. I'm sick of pundits, commentators and even fans of ours and others saying how much we depend on captain fantastic. If this is true, it's by no means a good thing and almost cancerous to the side. If Gerrard leads by example, then his example is rotten and detrimental to the cause of the side this season. How disheartening can it be when he trys to play a bread and butter pass to a player and plays it straight to an opposition player and then turn round, sulk and blame somebody like Lucas or Insua for it not coming off? Rafa needs to grow some balls and drop him to the bench and I've been saying that for months.

by **Sir Roger** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:11 am

Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Also, we need better players anyway so when he eventually calls time on his career - if he's still with us - we shouldn't be in a position where we rely on him more than we really should. And even if in that time he doesn't reach the highs of previous seasons he should still be able to fill the experienced midfield role for many years to come, like Giggs, Scholes have done and like Gary Mac did well into his 30s.

Very true, this. I'm sick of pundits, commentators and even fans of ours and others saying how much we depend on captain fantastic. If this is true, it's by no means a good thing and almost cancerous to the side. If Gerrard leads by example, then his example is rotten and detrimental to the cause of the side this season. How disheartening can it be when he trys to play a bread and butter pass to a player and plays it straight to an opposition player and then turn round, sulk and blame somebody like Lucas or Insua for it not coming off? Rafa needs to grow some balls and drop him to the bench and I've been saying that for months.

He is clearly unhappy playing for Rafa
Whether its the team selection, formation, tactics or just the performances or lack of talent of players around him its affecting his game badly. I cant remember the last time I saw him playing that badly.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:22 am

LittleHobo wrote:not all centre midfielders cover the most ground

a mascherano type or a makelele (in his prime) or a box to box midfielder like lampard = yes

an alonso, barry, pirlo, beckham for ac milan playmakers = no

I should check your stats on that, if I were you. Alonso covered more ground than most whilst with us - there's a difference between pace and stamina.

And as far as your opening post is concerned: Get help - you are an idiot.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:25 am

Sir Roger wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Also, we need better players anyway so when he eventually calls time on his career - if he's still with us - we shouldn't be in a position where we rely on him more than we really should. And even if in that time he doesn't reach the highs of previous seasons he should still be able to fill the experienced midfield role for many years to come, like Giggs, Scholes have done and like Gary Mac did well into his 30s.

Very true, this. I'm sick of pundits, commentators and even fans of ours and others saying how much we depend on captain fantastic. If this is true, it's by no means a good thing and almost cancerous to the side. If Gerrard leads by example, then his example is rotten and detrimental to the cause of the side this season. How disheartening can it be when he trys to play a bread and butter pass to a player and plays it straight to an opposition player and then turn round, sulk and blame somebody like Lucas or Insua for it not coming off? Rafa needs to grow some balls and drop him to the bench and I've been saying that for months.

He is clearly unhappy playing for Rafa
Whether its the team selection, formation, tactics or just the performances or lack of talent of players around him its affecting his game badly. I cant remember the last time I saw him playing that badly.

Typical prat response. This is the Gerrard who recently admitted that Rafa was right all along and he played his best football under him?

It's pathetic, really. "Blame Rafa" - Mantra of the demented. :no

by **Scottbot** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:35 am

Haven't read any of this thread because I saw the title and immediately thought 'dumbest thread on the board'. The guy is 30 years old for fooks sake. Finished? You've got to be joking, absolute rubbish. Gerrard will play at the next World Cup (in four years time), it might not be in his current position but he'll still be there.

by **babu** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:51 am

Scottbot wrote:Haven't read any of this thread because I saw the title and immediately thought 'dumbest thread on the board'. The guy is 30 years old for fooks sake. Finished? You've got to be joking, absolute rubbish. Gerrard will play at the next World Cup (in four years time), it might not be in his current position but he'll still be there.

However there is plenty of strong challengers for dumbest thread, this has to come close.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:55 am

babu wrote:

However there is plenty of strong challengers for dumbest thread, this has to come close.

Indeed

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:57 am

LittleHobo wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
LittleHobo wrote:as a world class player, i believe he is finished

as a very good player he isnt finished

il bring this thread up in a year and maybe then you will agree with me

in a year, cool

I'll create a thread now saying Torres is finished and bring it up in 10 years yeh?

in a year gerrard will be 30.......(and how many world class 30 year olds can you name?)

so really my prediction is a little obvious i guess

World class players aged 30 in 2010

I'll group by nationality (i.e. whether they play for their country), restrict to FIFAs top 10 and whether they play Champions League.

Brazil
Júlio César
Lucio
Ronaldinho

Spain
Puyol
Xavi

Netherlands
Van Bommel

Italy
Buffon
Cannavaro
Gattuso
Pirlo
Zambrotta

Germany
Ballack
Klose

Portugal
Ferreira
Miguel
Simao

France
Abidal
Henry
Anelka
Vieira??

England
Terry
Ferdinand
Gerrard
Lampard
Beckham

Argentina
Heinze
Samuel
Milito
Zanetti

Greece
Kyriagos

Hardly any 30+ world class players

god what a shocking list

depends on what defines "world class" i guess, for me world class = could walk into any team in the world, club and international

from that list there is probaly only 1 who would walk into any team in the world.........XAVI

The difference with my definition of 'world class' and your definition. Is mine is measurable. Your's is solely opinion.

Also considering you think Gerrard is finished, I would imagine most here (inc. myself) think your opinion is demented to say the least.

by **JC_81** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:21 am

SouthCoastShankly wrote:World class players aged 30 in 2010

I'll group by nationality (i.e. whether they play for their country), restrict to FIFAs top 10 and whether they play Champions League.

Brazil
Júlio César
Lucio
Ronaldinho

Spain
Puyol
Xavi

Netherlands
Van Bommel

Italy
Buffon
Cannavaro
Gattuso
Pirlo
Zambrotta

Germany
Ballack
Klose

Portugal
Ferreira
Miguel
Simao

France
Abidal
Henry
Anelka
Vieira??

England
Terry
Ferdinand
Gerrard
Lampard
Beckham

Argentina
Heinze
Samuel
Milito
Zanetti

Greece
Kyriagos

Hardly any 30+ world class players

There are plenty of world class 30+ players, although that is a pretty shocking list mate :laugh:

You're definitely scraping the barrel with a few of them.
World class is an overused term, but for me should mean someone that would walk into almost any side.

My list would be something like...

Buffon
Zanetti
Nesta
Carvalho
Terry
Ferdinand
Xavi
Gerrard
Lampard
Drogba

I'm not convinced about Lucio, he's what I would call a very good player, but perhaps not quite world class, same with Julio Cesar and maybe Anelka. I'm tempted to stick Seedorf on the list because for me he's still quality every time I watch him, but I do think he struggles to perform for the full 90 these days.

Would you really say that guys like Ferreira, Gattuso or Milito were EVER world class? Not for me.

There's a lot of guys on your list who are past it imo. Guys like Ronaldinho, Cannavaro, Henry, Vieira, Beckham, Klose, Puyol etc were world class players at their peak, but they're clearly on the slide and some of them have been on the slide for a long time.

I guess it's just a matter of opinions...

Haven't had a 'what is world class' debate on here since Stu was around :laugh:

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Hate to say it but......gerrard is finished.....

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