Liverpool FC Forum

by **Zidane** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:39 pm

I had given up on Rafa this year because I was starting to believe he really had lost players earlier in the season but our recent streak has proved me very, very wrong and I've had to eat my words. Prior to this I believed Rafa had built us up ever since he arrived both financially and squad wise, maybe it hasn't been as fast as some would have liked and maybe we haven't won enough trophies during the process to keep that group satisfied but anyone who honestly thinks that he hasn't had a tremendously positive impact on the club is foolish.

So.. given everything we have had to deal with this season, how badly we have looked, the injuries, the quality or lack thereof in some positions, the parity in the league and last but not least the lack of funds.. When you take everything into account do you believe this team can win the premiership before age sets in or people give up and want to move elsewhere? I'm not asking if you think we will do it this year or next or whatever, just trying to find out how many people here actually believe it as a possibility with the current players and manager.

IMO we have as good a chance as anyone to win it in the next few years if not better, we were the favorites heading in this season but due to the all the circumstances it seems it just wasn't meant to be. It feels awful to see another season lost and I know it feels like the same ole next season type deal, but yeah..

next year I will be as optimistic as I was going into this one(bar any horrible injuries in the WC) and I fully expect us to be back at the top of our game! We are still on the right track with Rafa at the helm and he is still improving us year after year.

Also on a completely unrelated topic I think Rafa did not spend any money during the January window because he wants to save it for the summer to prepare for next year seeing as how this year is kinda lost and he probably felt the team was strong enough to win the UEFA cup and finish at least fourth.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:09 pm

We need to rid ourselves of the current owners ,before we envisage accomplishing the Holy Grail, we need to all make a concerted effort to throw our support behind S.O.S and the Ideal that deems what is happening at Liverpool Fc a complete and total travesty that should have no place in football in general ........ that said though fella I admire your honesty and to answer your initial question yes I think Liverpool will win the League in the not to distant future ,but not unsurprisingly with these owners

by **heimdall** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:22 pm

I don't think we will ever win under Rafa, we need new management and a change of owners wouldn't hurt either. We need a big cash injection from somewhere, we have one asset which could give us that but he would never be sold, the fans would revolt.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:39 pm

heimdall wrote:I don't think we will ever win under Rafa, we need new management and a change of owners wouldn't hurt either. We need a big cash injection from somewhere, we have one asset which could give us that but he would never be sold, the fans would revolt.

You live alone am I correct ?

by **parchpea** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:47 pm

We havent a prayer of winning the league under this regime.Not long back we hoped of winning it now we are left to scrap for fourth after a shocking campaign so far.People soon forget after a half decent run but lets face it we are still very average for a Liverpool team and all we can hope to do is fight and scrap for every point just like one. No quality in there at all.This group needs ripping up and re building not tweaking and frankly this manager and his crew have had enough chances to move the team forward.Lets not lose sense of where we really are after digging out a few decent results lately.

by **tubby** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:52 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:We need to rid ourselves of the current owners ,before we envisage accomplishing the Holy Grail, we need to all make a concerted effort to throw our support behind S.O.S and the Ideal that deems what is happening at Liverpool Fc a complete and total travesty that should have no place in football in general ........ that said though fella I admire your honesty and to answer your initial question yes I think Liverpool will win the League in the not to distant future ,but not unsurprisingly with these owners

What he said

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:56 pm

parchpea wrote:We havent a prayer of winning the league under this regime.Not long back we hoped of winning it now we are left to scrap for fourth after a shocking campaign so far.People soon forget after a half decent run but lets face it we are still very average for a Liverpool team and all we can hope to do is fight and scrap for every point just like one. No quality in there at all.This group needs ripping up and re building not tweaking and frankly this manager and his crew have had enough chances to move the team forward.Lets not lose sense of where we really are after digging out a few decent results lately.

I retract my earlier statement about Heimdall living alone ,due to the derogatory comments he makes, that now appears incorrect as he obviously lives with you

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:09 pm

Not for me, unless we get another top centre midfielder to play alongside mascherano.
We have been dire this season and even our recent run which has been far far better still we are not good enough away from home.
The Stoke and Wolves games were not good at all, struggle to create enough and when Torres is out our lack of striking options is awful.
I think it every season but i again feel we are not that far away.
We would need a top centre midfielder, kerry has out good points accross lately regarding this, the kind of midfielder is someone comfortable in posession that can spot a pass, keep posession and generally dictate the tempo of the game.
We also need another striker, someone that can play alongside Torres but that could hopefully lead the line when Torres is injured or in need of a rest.
Do we have the money for them, extremley unlikely.

by **tubby** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:19 pm

If you had asked me last season I would have said I think we are 2 maybe 3 top players away from winning the league. As I haven't really seen how well we play with a full firing Aquilani I can't comment yet but id say we are around the same level still. Our problem this season was our lack in depth was exposed for all to see and the board need to realise that it cannot be allowed to happen again. As far as this season goes? Hell we more or less have the same team as we did last season and look how well we done then. NGog scores now and again too and if we can keep Stevie and Torres fit anything is possible.

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:32 pm

bavlondon wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:We need to rid ourselves of the current owners ,before we envisage accomplishing the Holy Grail, we need to all make a concerted effort to throw our support behind S.O.S and the Ideal that deems what is happening at Liverpool Fc a complete and total travesty that should have no place in football in general ........ that said though fella I admire your honesty and to answer your initial question yes I think Liverpool will win the League in the not to distant future ,but not unsurprisingly with these owners

What he said

What they said , ha ha

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:51 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:We need to rid ourselves of the current owners ,before we envisage accomplishing the Holy Grail, we need to all make a concerted effort to throw our support behind S.O.S and the Ideal that deems what is happening at Liverpool Fc a complete and total travesty that should have no place in football in general ........ that said though fella I admire your honesty and to answer your initial question yes I think Liverpool will win the League in the not to distant future ,but not unsurprisingly with these owners

What he said

What they said , ha ha

What they said :;):

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:05 am

I said what everyone would say if it hadn't already been said by someone who said it better

by **Rush Job** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:07 am

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
heimdall wrote:I don't think we will ever win under Rafa, we need new management and a change of owners wouldn't hurt either. We need a big cash injection from somewhere, we have one asset which could give us that but he would never be sold, the fans would revolt.

You live alone am I correct ?

Na mate, he`s got a goldfish.

by **JC_81** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:17 am

We can't win the league with this side.

We don't have near enough strength in depth and there are simply too many average players. Reina, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres are good enough for any championship winning side. Carragher probably is too still but is past his peak. The likes of Johnson, Agger, Riera and Benayoun are good players too, but not top class. Beyond that we don't have genuine quality in the side.

We are playing absolutely horrible football at the moment and although results have picked up, we just don't look capable of producing the football we did in the second half of last season.

A major overhaul is needed unfortunately. This side peaked last season and needs rebuilding. I think Benitez has had enough chances and spent enough money now and overall I'd be in favour of him stepping aside and letting someone else have a go. The bottom line though is that it probably doesn't matter who the manager is until we get rid of the yanks, because they won't back a manager with cash.

by **Owzat** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:02 am

If the manager could adapt a little better perhaps, but our squad is thin and what money has been made available has not always been spent wisely. The obvious 'answer' is to say that we won't under the current owners, assuming that our style of football and tactics would suddenly improve if we had many more millions to buy players who wouldn't come here anyway. Our problem has been not beating the sides we should, not so much losing to the big guns. Any one of a plethora of poor draws last season could be highlighted as to why we didn't win the league, draws at HOME to Fulham, West Ham, Stoke, bitters, Hull, and away to Wigan and Stoke. Those results can't all be blamed on money, nor can losing 1-3 at home to villa this season, not beating Stoke, Wolves or Blackburn away, losing embarrassingly to Sunderland (lucky goal to them, but did we score................?) and struggling pompey away and unable to beat Brum at home - looking poor in way too many games regardless of result.

We have enough very good players to be competing, the mancs are right up there with a squad not that much better than our's. Even Arsenal are up there, maybe closer to us now than the league leaders but they don't constantly whine about a lack of money.

In answer to the main question, I am not into 'beliefs'. We either can or can't, will or won't win the league, but the key for me is having the right manager as no matter how much or little money the manager is given, it is what he does with the money and what he does with the resources at his disposal in terms of the players available, and Rafa simply doesn't convince. By virtue of the fact we finished second once so far, last season has to be viewed as a one-off until it is repeated or given up on.

And on the injury excuse front, some may cite Torres' absence as key yet he played more league games this season than at this time last season

25 league game comparison

Torres 09/10 : 12 goals in 15 apps
Torres 08/09 : 8 goals in 14 apps

Gerrard 09/10 : 5 goals in 20 apps
Gerrard 08/09 : 9 goals in 22 apps

Mascherano 09/10 : 22 apps
Mascherano 08/09 : 15 apps

Benayoun 09/10 : 5 goals in 20 apps
Benayoun 08/09 : 2 goals in 21 apps

And the macdaddy of the comparisons, much maligned Kuyt who is having a bad season apparently but had a pretty good one last season

Kuyt 09/10 : 9 goals in 25 apps
Kuyt 08/09 : 6 goals in 25 apps

Summed up, Torres missed more games and scored less goals last season at the same stage, the main difference for Gerrard is less goals, Kuyt has scored more than at this stage last season and Benayoun scored more last season. Even Mascherano has played more this season despite red card trouble. So the major difference is what? Luck? Money? (no real change there, excuse the dual meaning pun

) The loss of Alonso and Arbeloa? (maybe) Or could it simply be that we've lost a few games we drew last season.

Corresponding Results

08/09 : P21 W13 D7 L1 F41 A17 PTS 46
09/10 : P21 W10 D6 L5 F35 A24 PTS 36

Games we've lost this season we won last : Villa (h), Chelsea (a), Sunderland (a), Fulham (a), Portsmouth (a). That's the major difference, we should have won 3-4 of those five games and there's your 10 points difference. Sure we won games last season we drew this season, and vice versa, but in essence can we blame losing those games to less money/weaker sides?!!?!? And we've dropped four points to newly promoted sides that can't be blamed on money, Wolves away and Brum at home are two games that should be won - injuries or no injuries, money or no money.

And perhaps the one key difference in those two records is wins, winning is important if you want to win the league. I think Rafa still doesn't get that sometimes, grabbing every point that presents itself when we should be going for all three. Too often we've gone ahead and look a far worse side for it, losing or conceding equalisers. In 10 of those 21 games this season we've scored more than one goal compared to 12 last year, we also kept three more clean sheets. What's Rafa decided is the solution to having no Johnson? Play Carra at RB. Are we seriously suggesting that the only solution to missing Johnson is if we can go out and buy a £multimillion back-up RB? (and for every position?)

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