Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:46 am

I just referred to Fellaini as the bitter's number one fouling maching, but a quick look at one source of discipline for the Premiership makes me wonder if we aren't too indisciplined.

Most red cards 09/10

2 Mascherano
1 includes Degen, Kyrgiakos, Carragher (all straight reds)

Most cards 09/10

8 K.Davies (Bolton), Cana (Sunderland), Thomas (Wigan)
7 Carr (Birmingham), MASCHERANO (Liverpool), Parker (West Ham), Song (Arsenal), Boateng (Portsmouth)
6 includes Lucas
5 includes Carra and Skrtel

http://www.statbunker.com/footbal....badboys

I've long maintained we concede too many free-kicks and corners, but surely five is more reds than we should be getting. If it were Arsenal then it would be headline news. And four players with five or more cards this season in the league is not clever either, players there to defend or at least protect the back four when in fact they are often conceding set pieces which exposes the defence

Team discipline table 09/10

1. Sunderland, 64 points = 56 cards (52Y, 4R)
2. Portsmouth, 59 points = 55 cards (53Y, 2R)
3. West Ham, 55 points = 49 cards (46Y, 3R)
4. Bolton, 54 points = 50 cards (48Y, 2R)
5. Wolves, 54 points = 48 cards (45Y, 3R)
6. Hull City, 52 points = 48 cards (46Y, 2R)
7. LIVERPOOL, 50 points = 40 cards (35Y, 5R)
8. A Villa, 50 points = 46 cards (44Y, 2R)

Inverted* 'disciplinary table' on this site/page : http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statistics/0,,12306,00.html

*inverted because surely the table should be points descending not ascending, maybe the site is run by Fulham fans or something!

No team has had more red cards than us, next worst offenders with four red cards are Sunderland who have the worst disciplinary record overall. The mancs, Arsenal and Chelsea have only five red cards between them, we have one less yellow than Arsenal but five more reds. It's embarrasing that teams like Brum, Stoke, bitters and rovers have better disciplinary records.

by **kunilson** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:57 am

no.

maybe this season, but over the last couple of seasons we've had the best or one of the best disciplinary records every season.

with everything goin on at our club, aint surprising.

by **kazza** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:18 am

Degan, the greek and one of Masch reds were harsh and should not have been red, I do not remember Carra's. We do not get too many yellows and I think that is a better indicator.

by **tonyeh** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:09 pm

I don't think Liverpool as a team have been indisciplined, but certainly Mascherano has played the idiot too many times for my liking.

by **Yossi_Benaloon** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:54 pm

The team are not dirty or undisciplined, there has been times when Mascherano has done stupid things but apart from that we are not any worse than any other Premier League team. In the derby there could have been a few Everton players sent off and it was just a hark back to the olden days of football. This was just a one-off game and our discipline from all the other games this season shows we are a fair team.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:07 pm

tonyeh wrote:I don't think Liverpool as a team have been indisciplined, but certainly Mascherano has played the idiot too many times for my liking.

I'll tell you what, Masch used to wind me up a bit with his kamikaze style but I think I've figured him out. He'll hare around the pitch like a madmen throwing himself into every challenge until he mistimes one and gets booked. Once he's on a yellow he'll play a more disciplined game, reading the danger, containing players, tackling properly, etc. It's almost as if he's out there to send a message that we will not be fooked with in the middle of the park until he gets a card, then he knuckles down and does the business. The only thing that lets him down, IMO, is his propensity to yap to officials after every call against us. The Steve Bennett incident at OT should have shown him the folly of doing so but he's never quite learned that lesson. Those are the times I'd like to see Stevie or Carra usher him away from the official sharpish.

by **tonyeh** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:18 pm

Yeh. I dread a call against us sometimes. Since that Old Trafford nonsense, I see Mascherano running 40 yards to yell at the ref every time now! It has me yelling "Shaaddddapppp" at the telly.

Still, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I just think Mascherano isn't that bright. His lunging into players has my head in my hands at times. It can be completely un-necessary and a detriment to his own side on occasion. I'd like to see him be more measured in his approach.

by **heimdall** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:22 pm

tonyeh wrote:Yeh. I dread a call against us sometimes. Since that Old Trafford nonsense, I see Mascherano running 40 yards to yell at the ref every time now! It has me yelling "Shaaddddapppp" at the telly.

Still, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I just think Mascherano isn't that bright. His lunging into players has my head in my hands at times. It can be completely un-necessary and a detriment to his own side on occasion. I'd like to see him be more measured in his approach.

I just don't think Mascha is that good, If Barca offer anywhere near £30 million we shoudl snap their hands off.

Apart from Mascha I think we are a fairly disciplined team.

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:41 pm

heimdall wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Yeh. I dread a call against us sometimes. Since that Old Trafford nonsense, I see Mascherano running 40 yards to yell at the ref every time now! It has me yelling "Shaaddddapppp" at the telly.

Still, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I just think Mascherano isn't that bright. His lunging into players has my head in my hands at times. It can be completely un-necessary and a detriment to his own side on occasion. I'd like to see him be more measured in his approach.

I just don't think Mascha is that good, If Barca offer anywhere near £30 million we shoudl snap their hands off.

Apart from Mascha I think we are a fairly disciplined team.

he is class and the best in the world for me at what he does.
he was mom saturday by a mile in 2 different positions.

Yeah he needs to be more disciplined at times but thats the way the lad plays and i love watching him.
He won every battle saturday bar that sick challenge on him from Pienaar.
You dont sell your key players, and he is one of them.

I would rather he didnt have me heart in mouth at times but thats just how he plays, love him personally and would hate him to move on.

by **heimdall** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:46 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
heimdall wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Yeh. I dread a call against us sometimes. Since that Old Trafford nonsense, I see Mascherano running 40 yards to yell at the ref every time now! It has me yelling "Shaaddddapppp" at the telly.

Still, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I just think Mascherano isn't that bright. His lunging into players has my head in my hands at times. It can be completely un-necessary and a detriment to his own side on occasion. I'd like to see him be more measured in his approach.

I just don't think Mascha is that good, If Barca offer anywhere near £30 million we shoudl snap their hands off.

Apart from Mascha I think we are a fairly disciplined team.

he is class and the best in the world for me at what he does.
he was mom saturday by a mile in 2 different positions.

Yeah he needs to be more disciplined at times but thats the way the lad plays and i love watching him.
He won every battle saturday bar that sick challenge on him from Pienaar.
You dont sell your key players, and he is one of them.

I would rather he didnt have me heart in mouth at times but thats just how he plays, love him personally and would hate him to move on.

i disagree you do sell players if they don't benefit the team and I just don't see what Mascha gives us. He's good but way way too defensive for my liking, he contributes feck all going forwards, give me a player like Viera or Keane, in their prime, any day.

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:55 pm

heimdall wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
heimdall wrote:
tonyeh wrote:Yeh. I dread a call against us sometimes. Since that Old Trafford nonsense, I see Mascherano running 40 yards to yell at the ref every time now! It has me yelling "Shaaddddapppp" at the telly.

Still, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I just think Mascherano isn't that bright. His lunging into players has my head in my hands at times. It can be completely un-necessary and a detriment to his own side on occasion. I'd like to see him be more measured in his approach.

I just don't think Mascha is that good, If Barca offer anywhere near £30 million we shoudl snap their hands off.

Apart from Mascha I think we are a fairly disciplined team.

he is class and the best in the world for me at what he does.
he was mom saturday by a mile in 2 different positions.

Yeah he needs to be more disciplined at times but thats the way the lad plays and i love watching him.
He won every battle saturday bar that sick challenge on him from Pienaar.
You dont sell your key players, and he is one of them.

I would rather he didnt have me heart in mouth at times but thats just how he plays, love him personally and would hate him to move on.

i disagree you do sell players if they don't benefit the team and I just don't see what Mascha gives us. He's good but way way too defensive for my liking, he contributes feck all going forwards, give me a player like Viera or Keane, in their prime, any day.

he is not there to contribute going forwards.
He is a holding midfielder.
If he had a partner that offered enough going forwards the midfield would be far more effective.
But its not the defensive midfielders fault if he doesnt offer loads going forward as thats not his job.

If you cant see what he offers the team after Saturday then i am wasting my time.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:57 pm

Whay does anybody bother to reply to that tool heimdall ? He's a bleedin' WUM....winds everybody up here with daft comments, ill-informed posts, controversial-for-the-sake-of-it drivel etc....
Set the muppet to ignore....

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:59 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:Whay does anybody bother to reply to that tool heimdall ? He's a bleedin' WUM....winds everybody up here with daft comments, ill-informed posts, controversial-for-the-sake-of-it drivel etc....
Set the muppet to ignore....

Cos i love his brows

by **heimdall** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:42 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Whay does anybody bother to reply to that tool heimdall ? He's a bleedin' WUM....winds everybody up here with daft comments, ill-informed posts, controversial-for-the-sake-of-it drivel etc....
Set the muppet to ignore....

Cos i love his brows

LOL

hmm interesting that bungleboy, I've been carded in the past for inciting people to ban someone, even though I never did it quite as blatantly as you! Mind you it must be infuriating not being able to hold an intelligent debate, much much easier to resort to tedious rhetoric and cheap insults isn't it.

Keane and especially Viera were also DM's in my opinion but offered much much more going forwards. I don't expect a DM to be like Stevie G but they should still be able to initiate some plays, I don't think I've ever seen Mascha do that.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:47 pm

heimdall wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Whay does anybody bother to reply to that tool heimdall ? He's a bleedin' WUM....winds everybody up here with daft comments, ill-informed posts, controversial-for-the-sake-of-it drivel etc....
Set the muppet to ignore....

Cos i love his brows

LOL

hmm interesting that bungleboy, I've been carded in the past for inciting people to ban someone, even though I never did it quite as blatantly as you! Mind you it must be infuriating not being able to hold an intelligent debate, much much easier to resort to tedious rhetoric and cheap insults isn't it.

Keane and especially Viera were also DM's in my opinion but offered much much more going forwards. I don't expect a DM to be like Stevie G but they should still be able to initiate some plays, I don't think I've ever seen Mascha do that.

Story, bottie-boy...

I'd say you were more likely carded for repetitive posting of inane drivel...perhaps for boring others to tears with the same monotonous nonsense "Sell Masch! Sell Torres!....yada..yada..yada..."
I'm more than happy to, and capable of, an intelligent debate, assuming it is precisely that. The difference is, if others do not agree with your pointless nonsense (case in point "Sell Torres !"), you resort to throwing your soother out of the cot...
THAT attitude is not conducive to healthy and/or intelligent debate.
You've a lot of growing up to do....

Liverpool FC Forum

Are we indisciplined?

Who is online