Liverpool FC Forum

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:32 am

plenty of time since the wedding now, why hasn't this been announced? Honeymoon on Merseyside, consummate in the Kop

by **Owzat** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:28 am

Ace Ventura wrote:owzat did you see jimmymacs post on the last page ?

It is with a quote from a milan fan, i will re-post it below.

Quote
you've got a gem of a player there, very good business by Rafa. The biggest concern some of my mates had was why he was'nt in the Italian squad for the Euro's. Well basically, Grosso is first choice & Donadoni prefers Chellini's defensive ability as back up & Zambrotta can play there as well. It's soley because the others are defensively better players rather than overall better players than Dossena that have them in the squad.

Now don't be alarmed thinking he can't defend he can. He's a solid player. People who look at his attacking assists may think he purely bombs up the field but he does his attacking duties well without looking a spectacular player like clichy or evra maybe but very effectively. The kind of player like Finnan who just gets on with his job and does it well without ever getting the headlines the next day. Got his Italy cap last year and will be part of the new Italian generation after the Euro's. Has European experience as well so should be fine. Played in a good attacking Udinese side with De Natele and Quagliarella so should slot in perfectly with Liverpool and Gerrard and Torres. Likes his cross field passes to open up the other side of the pitch so Babbel and Finnan better be concentrating!

Wow a Milan fan said it so it must be true. Jesus H Christ you people, I'm still getting quoted and quoted by quote by quote for a very harmless comment. Dear oh dear, I know there ain't much to discuss at the moment, but no need for you all to throw your toys out of your prams when I've not even said anything like "they're not in their country's squads so they must be :censored:

" The way you lot have overreacted I suggest you might as well misquote me, because the reaction is disproportionate to the comment.

And FYIs all round, quoting other players not playing, lots of examples and quotes from OPINIONS is just ridiculous. You can't disprove opinion, not that I've said anything other than the fact that it is concerning (to me) that we're signing a Swiss player who can't get a game and an Italian not even in his squad.

GET A F IN GRIP

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:20 pm

I'm not surprised he's not in the Italian squad, actually. They're well covered at LB with Zambrotta and Grosso.

by **Owzat** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:35 pm

Bad Bob wrote:I'm not surprised he's not in the Italian squad, actually. They're well covered at LB with Zambrotta and Grosso.

Maybe not, £7m or £8m that I saw quoted is a lot for a full-back not in the squad. I should probably point out my comment was more aimed at Degen and the fact he's not getting a game for the Swiss, I did originally look for a Degen thread but couldn't see it if there was one. Of course being third or fourth best Italian in a position isn't nearly as bad as being second choice Swiss by any means. I should have replied to the quote on Arbeloa being comparable with the Dossena/Degen situation by pointing out Arbeloa wasn't being bought for £7m+. Anyone can through arbitrary comparisons and say so and so "worked out". There are no hard and fast rules, but we're looking for top quality and they tend to be internationals.

When we're signing players who've yet to play for us and they're not playing for their countries it doesn't bode well, in an ideal world we'd be signing players who are 1st choice for their country and that inspires optimism. The link with Milner might be another where you question if we shouldn't be looking for better, Barry has broken into the England team even if he's being priced out of a move. When we signed Crouch was he an England player? (no)

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:50 pm

Owzat wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:I'm not surprised he's not in the Italian squad, actually. They're well covered at LB with Zambrotta and Grosso.

Maybe not, £7m or £8m that I saw quoted is a lot for a full-back not in the squad. I should probably point out my comment was more aimed at Degen and the fact he's not getting a game for the Swiss, I did originally look for a Degen thread but couldn't see it if there was one. Of course being third or fourth best Italian in a position isn't nearly as bad as being second choice Swiss by any means. I should have replied to the quote on Arbeloa being comparable with the Dossena/Degen situation by pointing out Arbeloa wasn't being bought for £7m+. Anyone can through arbitrary comparisons and say so and so "worked out". There are no hard and fast rules, but we're looking for top quality and they tend to be internationals.

When we're signing players who've yet to play for us and they're not playing for their countries it doesn't bode well, in an ideal world we'd be signing players who are 1st choice for their country and that inspires optimism. The link with Milner might be another where you question if we shouldn't be looking for better, Barry has broken into the England team even if he's being priced out of a move. When we signed Crouch was he an England player? (no)

I'd completely agree that in an ideal world we'd want to be signing top quality players--full internationals who are nailed on starters for their country and the like. Unfortunately, we're living in the world where Hicks and Gillett are in charge of the club and are seemingly forcing us to look for players on the cheap. I don't think anyone's truly ecstatic that we're signing the likes of Degen or even this Dossena fella but all we can hope for is that Rafa and the scouting department have uncovered some hidden gems here on the cheap. Like many, I'll wait until I see them play a bit before deciding whether we've got steals or duds (having seen neither kick a ball ever). And while using their status with their respective international set-ups is probably a fair barometer of their quality I think there are more than enough examples of quality players not turning out for their country to cast doubt that this method of evaluation is in any way fool proof.

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:24 pm

Thought i heard somewhere that Degen had a slight injury and might be fit for the last game ?

I posted the post about the Milan fan re-Dossena because he gave us a reason about him not being in the squad thats all, think you need to count to 10 and breathe slower

Goosfraba !!

by **JoeTerp** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:31 pm

Not sure if you can say Doessena is on the cheap, wouldn't he break Skrtel's record signing fee for a defender?

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:38 pm

JoeTerp wrote:Not sure if you can say Doessena is on the cheap, wouldn't he break Skrtel's record signing fee for a defender?

A good point. I was think relative to the likes of Boswinga or Alves or Lahm, in which case he'll definitely be the cheap option.

by **Toffeehater** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:19 pm

SundanceKid wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Almighty Red wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Owzat wrote:Dossena not in the Italy squad, Degen not even good enough to start or come on for SWITZERLAND - not looking too good.

Many of good players are not called up for their international teams when they player for smaller , less prestigious clubs .
Clichy , Sagna who have had both outstanding seasons . A classic example would be luis garcia and arbeloa , when garcia was playing for us he was in a spain squad , now he's not . Arbeloa was never in the spain club before he joins LFC . It goes to show that you only get reconigised when you player for good top teams

I actually agree, but... didn't Arbeloa sign from Real Madrid? Of course, Real are small and lacking in prestige...

How many times did arbeloa play for madrid? None i'm guessing , the spain manager could not pick him just based on one or two appearances in a cup match for madrid . Deportivio he was playing regularly but again they were not a bigger club than liverpool.

I just pointed that out...

before i read your post lad

by **SundanceKid** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:59 am

Toffeehater wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Almighty Red wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Owzat wrote:Dossena not in the Italy squad, Degen not even good enough to start or come on for SWITZERLAND - not looking too good.

Many of good players are not called up for their international teams when they player for smaller , less prestigious clubs .
Clichy , Sagna who have had both outstanding seasons . A classic example would be luis garcia and arbeloa , when garcia was playing for us he was in a spain squad , now he's not . Arbeloa was never in the spain club before he joins LFC . It goes to show that you only get reconigised when you player for good top teams

I actually agree, but... didn't Arbeloa sign from Real Madrid? Of course, Real are small and lacking in prestige...

How many times did arbeloa play for madrid? None i'm guessing , the spain manager could not pick him just based on one or two appearances in a cup match for madrid . Deportivio he was playing regularly but again they were not a bigger club than liverpool.

I just pointed that out...

before i read your post lad

No harm

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:50 am

SundanceKid wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Almighty Red wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Owzat wrote:Dossena not in the Italy squad, Degen not even good enough to start or come on for SWITZERLAND - not looking too good.

Many of good players are not called up for their international teams when they player for smaller , less prestigious clubs .
Clichy , Sagna who have had both outstanding seasons . A classic example would be luis garcia and arbeloa , when garcia was playing for us he was in a spain squad , now he's not . Arbeloa was never in the spain club before he joins LFC . It goes to show that you only get reconigised when you player for good top teams

I actually agree, but... didn't Arbeloa sign from Real Madrid? Of course, Real are small and lacking in prestige...

How many times did arbeloa play for madrid? None i'm guessing , the spain manager could not pick him just based on one or two appearances in a cup match for madrid . Deportivio he was playing regularly but again they were not a bigger club than liverpool.

I just pointed that out...

before i read your post lad

No ham

with cheese?

by **Almighty Red** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:00 am

SundanceKid wrote:
Almighty Red wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Owzat wrote:Dossena not in the Italy squad, Degen not even good enough to start or come on for SWITZERLAND - not looking too good.

Many of good players are not called up for their international teams when they player for smaller , less prestigious clubs .
Clichy , Sagna who have had both outstanding seasons . A classic example would be luis garcia and arbeloa , when garcia was playing for us he was in a spain squad , now he's not . Arbeloa was never in the spain club before he joins LFC . It goes to show that you only get reconigised when you player for good top teams

I actually agree, but... didn't Arbeloa sign from Real Madrid? Of course, Real are small and lacking in prestige...

You could set off a grenade in one of your hands and you'd still be able to count the appearances Arbeloa had for Real Madrid on it

Well, yeah, I guess there is that...

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:08 pm

still cracks me up looking and that quote from sudance kid

by **stmichael** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:18 am

I think watching the Russians last night just proves that this guy is an important signing in that he seems to love getting forward from left back, a bit like Zambrotta and Grosso do for the Italian National team at the moment.

The Russians demonstrated the importance of the full back position, in modern football last night. Both goals were created by the full backs, right and left. We are not talking about playing in a hopeful ball from 40 yards out but penetrating runs from deep and then the composure to find the final pass once getting there.

This is the kind of play we greatly lack. People talk about 'that is too much money for a full back' but fail to see how the role of the modern full back has developed. Chelsea have just paid £16m for Boswinga and Barcelona have signed Daniel Alves for £23m in recent weeks.

by **desmdlow** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:44 am

I think this will be rafa approach to signing player from now on.. Non international come cheaper.. then once here with us the value booms.. then off u go the next 2 seasons.. haha

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