Liverpool FC Forum

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:52 am

steviec wrote:
dawson99 wrote:We've given the manager years... and the team don't seem to want to play for him. That's what it comes down to, will the players play for him or not. Personally I don't think they will...

There's a saying, "the buck stops here". If Rafa goes, his team of backroom staff will go with him, and some critics are pointing the finger at some of the scouts for recruiting players who aren't up to it, ie Babel, Lucas, Insua, Ngog, and now Aquilani will soon be joining that exclusive club. But scouts only suggest these guys, it's Rafael Benitez that signs them. Babel always looks disinterested, but then he has never been given an extended chance, which any player would need, to fit into the system. Lucas is an average player, who was clearly backing out of 50/50 balls against Reading the other night, but he doesn't have that something special. Insua is too short (not his fault I add), but too slow, (a bit overweight from what I see). He would need to go to the Manchester Ring Road just to turn. He was beaten very very easily, then just gave up in the move that led to Readings winner in the FA Cup and was out of position so easily.Ngog will NEVER be a world beater. I could name more and go on and on to describe the faults, (Deggen, etc)
Last season we were (according to Ancelotti) the best team in Europe by far. How can we have gone downhill so quickly.
Why DID we let Crouch go, (superb skill for a big man) - Sold! Robbie Keane was never given a proper chance, because Benitez did not want to want him- Sold! Bellamy would never let you down- Sold! Xabi Alonso wanted away mainly because Benitez didn't always consider him first choice - the man was WORLD class- Sold! Pennant is a good player but again was too underused- Sold! look at the "quality" squad we have now. I watched the Stoke match today, I think they had 11 corners, -- we had NONE!!!!. Last year we dominated the equivalent match, this year we were outclassed. We have got to call into question Benitez's thinking, as it baffles every 'Pool fan, Four and a half years ago we were European Champions, then I thought " right Fergie, I think you should retire gracefully, as WE ARE BACK!!!," and I foresaw us dominating the Premiership for years. but we are now just a middle table club in decline. We are one of the two top supported clubs in the world, along with Man Utd. We are the most passionate, "peoples" football club in the world - and it is up to us as fans to say -Enough is enough.

F*ck sake, sort that font colour out, you! I couldn't read the first line.

by **Owzat** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:09 am

Here's some stats for this season, posted to some degree in the match thread for stoke vs anti-stoke. We've scored one goal in FIFTEEN of our 31 games this season, P15 W4 D3 L8, but of those we've taken the lead in TEN and equalised in another four. Despite having taken the lead in ten games where we've only scored one, we've lost or drawn six of those (two draws, four defeats) and of the four we've equalised in we've lost three (Arsenal in the League Cup, Tottenham and Fulham in the League.

Results by goals scored 09/10

0 goals : P5 W0 D1 L4 F0 A7 (Won 0.00%)
1 goal : P15 W4 D3 L8 F15 A21 (Won 26.67%)
2 goals : P6 W4 D2 L0 F12 A5 (Won 66.67%)
3 goals : P2 W2 D0 L0 F6 A4 (Won 100.00%)
4 goals : P2 W2 D0 L0 F8 A0 (Won 100.00%)
6 goals : P1 W1 D0 L0 F6 A1 (Won 100.00%)

We've conceded 38 goals this season, 28 of those (73.69%) have come when we've scored one goal or less, and all twelve defeats have come when we've not scored 2+ goals. It's pretty bad that we've only scored twice in 11 games, and not once in any of our cup games/competitions. And to compound it all, when some LFC fan on another site was suggesting it has been "steady progression under Rafa", you look at our league positions under Rafa after 21 games and it becomes clear we are no further forward.

After 21 games

09/10 : P21 PTS 34 (GD +12)
08/09 : P21 PTS 46
07/08 : P21 PTS 39
06/07 : P21 PTS 37
05/06 : P21 PTS 44
04/05 : P21 PTS 34 (GD +13)

Our worst Premiership starts after 21 games are :

92/93 : P21 PTS 29
93/94 : P21 PTS 32 (GD +7)
03/04 : P21 PTS 32 (GD +8)
98/99 : P21 PTS 32 (GD +11)
02/03 : P21 PTS 34 (GD +9)

All too similar to our 02/03 season with Houllier, dropping out of the CL although we did win the League Cup. We lost at home to Palace in the FA Cup having drawn at their's, that in R4, and they too were a Championship side. So the only significant difference is Houllier won a trophy albeit the League Cup.

And after 21 games there is little difference this season to Rafa's first in charge, both with 34 points after 21 games and one GD in it. We'll be very lucky if 58 points gets us fifth this season, to reach that tally both spudz and citeh only need 20 more points from 17 games and the three teams above them even less. We certainly won't get into the CL that way, I have at times pondered whether winning the UEFA Cup should get a CL spot as reward, but I'm not convinced - partly because I truly believe a team should defend their title and that could only happen that way if the team dropped into the UEFA Cup having done badly in the CL.

So we are back to square one, same level of performance as when Rafa started here with predominantly Houllier's side and we've won only one more game than we've lost. While we did have a good run at the end of last season, mainly because we played mostly weaker sides including Hull, WBA, Newcastle, West Ham, Blackburn and Sunderland, we had a shocking 2009. Conveniently we played 38 league games in 2009, P38 W22 D8 L8 F79 A39 PTS 74 (GD +40). This from a side that was top at the New Year and won 10 of the last 11 games of the 08/09 season. Split that run out and it reads badly

Last 11 league games of 08/09 : P11 W10 D1 L0 F34 A7 PTS 31 (GD +27)
Rest of league games in 2009 : P27 W12 D7 L8 F45 A32 PTS 43 (GD +13)

16 of those 45 goals came in three games this season, two 4-0 wins over Stoke and Burnley and a 6-1 win over Hull. While some seem happy to label this season a 'blip', a temporary setback or however you'd like to disguise it, truth is last season was only the second 'blip' in six seasons, aided by wins at old twatford and Stamford Bridge and a highly unusual double over both sides when normally we're lucky to take three points out of 12. 05/06 was by far our strongest season, more convincing all-round without needed loads of red cards and late goals to assist our 82 point finish. Do we expect a 05/06 or 08/09 next season if Rafa were to stay, or more of this dross? Despite injuries, what manager goes to a game we could have done with winning and plays EIGHT defenders/defensive midfielders and two attackers? We didn't make substitutions until late (again) and looked vulnerable to set-pieces despite packing the side with defenders. We could have won it late on, but 0-0 would have been a fair reflection on a dire game where Stoke, who have at times spoken out in protest at their long-ball, throw merchants tag, stuck with their plan A until near the death. We should have set out to play them off the park, retain possession better with Aqua and Maxi in the starting XI and perhaps even Babel in the side, and looked to score 2-3 goals.

Too many more teams, tactics and performances like that and the manager might be off. Did anyone else pick up on the "if I decide to stay" line of Rafa in an interview? He's lucky both spudz and Citeh couldn't beat sides they should have yesterday, where did all this "difficult to go to woodison" come from?!?!? The bitters have only won four of their 11 home games and while they've only lost twice, we won there and we're playing :censored:

while spudz, Stoke, villa, brum and WOLVES all got a point there and Arsenal won there 6-1. Only Burnley (15th), rovers (14th), Wigan (13th), and now Citeh have lost there in the league. Laugh of the matter is that Citeh defeat means the bitters have leapfrogged Stoke, both on negative GD.

by **teamleader1** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:16 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
teamleader1 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Octsky wrote:Pre-season i think many of us already foresee the danger of having Torres as our only world-class striker. It is like jumping down an airplane with only a parachute and no spare. What happens to Keane? Crouch? Owen? Bellamy?

So Rafa is playing with fire, he deserved to get burn. Only the club and fans are innocent parties.
Also the treatment of Babel is a disgrace, if you are not going to play him, then fu.ck.ing loan him back to Ajax or sell him to Brimingham for 9 mil instead of letting him rot on the bench, spoiling team morale and his market value.

Rafa is really stupidly stubborn.

Rafa is stubborn, yes, but I don't think you fully grasp some of the reasons for the things you've mentioned in your post. Why loan Babel back, or flog him if we are skint and in dire need for players? I'm sure Rafa would love to get rid of the lazy b"stard, but it's out of his hands when what good would it do to sell if you know you can't spend?

Did Rafa not grasp the fact that once he sold Alonso he needed a class player to step right in?
His best option had to be to drop SG back and spend the cash on a class forward to play alongside Torres (who has injury problems)
One of the last options must have been to pay 20ml on an injury prone Italian who needed an op that would keep him out for months

Now which option did Rafa opt for?

I'll tell you what, son:

If you were the leader of MY team, you'd have one hell of a f*cking mutiny on your hands with your twisted logic.

MotorMouth
Explain that little gem of logic youve just posted.

I know you also cant grasp the logic in the fact that SG & Torres thrived on Alonso's vision from MF.
Has it also ever dawned on you that SG has had to revert back to dropping deep to pick the ball up now that Lucas has been entrusted by the manager with this vital role?
Alonso exelled at his role because Masch did at his.
ITS a team game! and ITS the managers job to get the best out of the players by gelling them together as a team.
So when he replaces a class act with a very limited one only a fool would expect it to be buisness as usual.
Also dont forget that Torres is injury prone so we were desperate for another quality striker at the club.

Now is it really that illogical that given the only MF availible that the 'manager thought' could do Alonso's job was crocked and needed an op that IF successful would still take months for him to recuporate from, That dropping SG, a world class MF player back, and spending our precious limited resourses on a class forward, was not the better option?

Rafa chooses to spend '20ml' on the crocked MF, replaces Alonso with Lucas thus fkn up the Torres/SG partnership
AND when it becomes obvious its not worked we dont have a striker worth a carrot to play alongside Torres and allow SG to get a grip of an aimless MF or even to play up front with him when Torres is injured.
You can bury your head in the sand and spout nonesense as much as you like, it still dosnte change the fact that Rafa fkd up completely and hasnte got a clue how to turn it around.
It was from the first day of the season an accident waiting to happen and thats why Rafa, the man who made it all possible with his shortsightedness MUST go!

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:05 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
REDTILLDEAD wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Big Niall wrote:Probably better to lose to Stoke and get him fired - like pulling a band aid off quickly.

You're a right knobhead, aren't you?

Wanting the team to lose now!

Unbelievable.

It's a case of papering over the cracks with Rafa....win 1....then lose 2!.....he has been pulling Rabbits out of hats, and doing the "Houdini act" by beating the likes of Man utd for a couple of seasons now. but at the end of the day it's only 3pts....whether it's man u or portsmouth?......he has to go....and the few knuckle heads on here who blindly grope for a crumb of Rafa's rambling excuses to hang on to are Living in self denial...a win at stoke (which is highly unlikley) given the shabite (his shabite) that he will start without the 3 main injured players wont make him any more safe.....his days are well and truly numbered....hopefully I will be able to count them on my fingers!.

Hopefully, you'll break the f*ckers whilst you're at it.

Yours need breaking!.........you pleb!......go and be a good little ostrich and bury your fat head in the fukking sand....as you have been doing now for 5 seasons. :wwww

by **The_Rock** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:28 am

Murphy lays the smackdown on benitez

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5866564,00.html

Danny Murphy feels Liverpool have gone backwards under Rafa Benitez since he left the club in 2004.

The experienced midfielder, who is now on the books of Fulham, believes the time has come for sweeping changes to be made at Anfield if they are to set out on the road to recovery.

The 32-year-old playmaker is of the opinion that in order for progress to be made, Benitez needs to be shown the door and a new manager brought in to help steady the ship.

With pressure mounting on the Spaniard with each passing game, it may only be a matter of time before Murphy's beliefs are shared by the Liverpool board.

A disastrous 2009/10 has underlined just how far away the club are from being regular contenders for major trophies, and much of the blame for their ongoing failings has been laid at Benitez's door.

"If you ask me has the time for Liverpool come to look for a new manager then I have to say 'yes'," Murphy told the News of the World.

"That is not me slating the guy because he forced me out when I didn't want to leave the club in the first place. Neither am I saying he is a bad manager. But over the last year or so the club have not moved forwards, in fact they are going backwards.

Mistakes

"I will always be a fan. I keep in touch with a lot of people close to the club and many think the time has come for a new manager. I agree providing that process doesn't cripple the club financially in terms of pay-offs."

He added: "Liverpool's problems at the moment are not just about some of the bad buys they have made for a lot of money over the last few years, but also the mistakes they've made in letting players go.

"I am not thinking of an obvious one like (Xabi) Alonso, but why on earth did Benitez sell players like Peter Crouch and Craig Bellamy when they are so reliant on Fernando Torres?

"It goes without saying the team have ended up relying too much on Torres, Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher.

"Over the past two years Benitez has made too many bad decisions. History says he has won the Champions League and the FA Cup for Liverpool, although even then people can argue about the merit of those wins.

"What I do know is that after being there for this length of time the debate should no longer be about Liverpool qualifying for the Champions League or where they finish in the league but actually winning the title. And that's not going to happen again this season. So something has to change.

"People go on about how well Liverpool did last season by finishing runners up? So what? We finished second under Gerard Houllier with 80 odd points. Our team also won three big trophies in one season. So things haven't really got much better. If anything they have got worse."

by **teamleader1** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:32 am

I read it first thing, good article
Hes big mates with SG & Carra so I dont think he'd come out with anything that would upset them.

So just read between the lines!

by **The_Rock** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:38 am

It beggers disbelieve how can benitez get rid of murphy (ok...he is not world class....but he is still decent) and then sign rubbish like zenden in.

Thats one of benitez's root problems and if he stays here...we are gonna see more of this (letting players go and not replacing them with someone better {sometimes even replacing them with worse ones})

by **mistyred** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:38 am

I honestly believe Rafa will be gone before the summer.

I dont think Rafa can take us any further, to be quite honest the team is an
absolute shambles so mamy mistakes and bad buys, no depth or quality to speak of.

Dont care what anybody says 3 wins in a row will not paper over these cracks
when it's quite obvious the foundations are sinking and the whole f'cking house is
lopsided.

Right now its just a case of when when not is Rafa gets the chop.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:39 am

Do you know what I am feckin fed up with the lot of it, I am fed up with everyone argueing all the time on here, on other forums, phone ins.
Sick of journos & the media slagging the club off on a day to day basis.
Sick of our b@stard owners whoreing our club around the world like a cheap slut who is willing to pull her knickers down for a bit of cash.
Sick of them killing our club with each passing day.
Sick of sh!t players playing for us/or who dont want to play for us.

I didnt feckin sign up for this what has happened to our once great club because i dont recognise it anymore.

Feckin fed up up with the lot of it.

by **mistyred** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:42 am

Everyone is Lynds, it just needs to come to a head for better or for worse.

The papers this morning are having a f'ckin free for all, it's so hard seeing this :censored:

but
i know why the papers are doing it.

The club need to sort this mess out sooner rather than later.

by **teamleader1** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:19 pm

mistyred wrote:Everyone is Lynds, it just needs to come to a head for better or for worse.

The papers this morning are having a f'ckin free for all, it's so hard seeing this but
i know why the papers are doing it.

The club need to sort this mess out sooner rather than later.

As it stands we will never sort it out, it will only get worse.
The ONLY thing that is possible and will make a difference is if a new Manager is appointed,
Fresh ideas and a new attitude is the basic requirement needed.

by **mistyred** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:23 pm

teamleader1 wrote:
mistyred wrote:Everyone is Lynds, it just needs to come to a head for better or for worse.

The papers this morning are having a f'ckin free for all, it's so hard seeing this but
i know why the papers are doing it.

The club need to sort this mess out sooner rather than later.

As it stands we will never sort it out, it will only get worse.
The ONLY thing that is possible and will make a difference is if a new Manager is appointed,
Fresh ideas and a new attitude is the basic requirement needed.

I agree mate i really do.

I like Rafa, Nice man and all but you know what this
has Got Gerrard Houllier written all over it.

by **RichardLFC1** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:32 pm

A new manager is needed at Liverpool however when the man is appointed is another question. If its going to be an ordinary man then it can wait till the end of the season.

However if its a man who carrys respect from the football industry then bring him on straight away. But in my opinion only two men i can think of who can get the respect straight away and get the team turned around straight away ad those men are either Mr Dalglish or Mr Mourinho.

To sum up unless we can appoint either Dalglish or Jose mourinho then the manager appointment can wait till the end of the season.

by **teamleader1** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:41 pm

mistyred wrote:
teamleader1 wrote:
mistyred wrote:Everyone is Lynds, it just needs to come to a head for better or for worse.

The papers this morning are having a f'ckin free for all, it's so hard seeing this but
i know why the papers are doing it.

The club need to sort this mess out sooner rather than later.

As it stands we will never sort it out, it will only get worse.
The ONLY thing that is possible and will make a difference is if a new Manager is appointed,
Fresh ideas and a new attitude is the basic requirement needed.

I agree mate i really do.

I like Rafa, Nice man and all but you know what this
has Got Gerrard Houllier written all over it.

Is right.

I'm being honest when I say that I'm dreading going the game on Wednesday, its only a matter of time before our displays result in us getting a real fkn hiding.
And Spurs look more than capable of doing it, and if Rafa plays the same line up, the nightmare might just become a reality

by **teamleader1** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:44 pm

RichardLFC1 wrote:A new manager is needed at Liverpool however when the man is appointed is another question. If its going to be an ordinary man then it can wait till the end of the season.

However if its a man who carrys respect from the football industry then bring him on straight away. But in my opinion only two men i can think of who can get the respect straight away and get the team turned around straight away ad those men are either Mr Dalglish or Mr Mourinho.

To sum up unless we can appoint either Dalglish or Jose mourinho then the manager appointment can wait till the end of the season.

Daggers should be in charge for the Spurs game!

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