Liverpool FC Forum

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:06 pm

made in UK wrote:The bloke looked like a headless chicken and couldn't defend for toffee in between times of keeping the physios hands warm.

Thank feck he's gone!!!

Spit it out mate - what exactly are you trying to say ?

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:55 pm

It'd be such a relief to look at the bench and see the likes of Kelly, Maxi and Pacheco (or in the team :nod

) instead of Degen, Dossena and Voronin :buttrock

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:28 pm

Babel, Deggen, Dossena, Voronin out.

Rafa can't afford to be wrong again, if he actually has the chance of taking the relevant decissions in another transfer window.

Being spot on in 9 out of 10 signings is something that I have seen few capable of, one of them is Toshack. That's too difficult. But so many recent mistakes are not good neither.

But too many deadwood to offload, and this time no deadwood from the past from Rafa, is something to definitely turn around. We know he knows getting right some positions. The keeper position is a key one and he got it spot on, signings like Alonso or Mascherano or the bet on Torres, who wasn't a world class player at Atletico, shows it. Rafa can't afford to have a string of bad signings like that. Benayoun and Riera were correct signings aswell.

FFS, Babel moaning in twitter is something I didn't expect from a professional, be sure you talk with a lad and you know how he is before signing him up.

Perhaps some people will disagree, but I've always thought that when you sign some player, you have to look at his quality, but also how he lives, what he does for fun, etc. Knowing the player personality a bit can foresee situations like Keane's. If you know a player won't accept being benched, don't sign him if you don't consider him in the same level of your best players. Rafa perhaps have to take a serious look in the personas, in the personality of the player he's going to sign, sometimes it seems he only analyses the quality, the reports, and the numbers.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:42 pm

Sabre wrote:Perhaps some people will disagree, but I've always thought that when you sign some player, you have to look at his quality, but also how he lives, what he does for fun, etc. Knowing the player personality a bit can foresee situations like Keane's. If you know a player won't accept being benched, don't sign him if you don't consider him in the same level of your best players. Rafa perhaps have to take a serious look in the personas, in the personality of the player he's going to sign, sometimes it seems he only analyses the quality, the reports, and the numbers.

Eh, Sabre...
What exactly do you mean about Keane ? He was a regular player and score, scoring 20+ goals the previous 3 seasons for Spudz....
He could hardly have expected to sit happily on the bench, esp. when he's joined his boyhood club....that'd be enuff to pi$$ anybody off....

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:50 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:
Sabre wrote:Perhaps some people will disagree, but I've always thought that when you sign some player, you have to look at his quality, but also how he lives, what he does for fun, etc. Knowing the player personality a bit can foresee situations like Keane's. If you know a player won't accept being benched, don't sign him if you don't consider him in the same level of your best players. Rafa perhaps have to take a serious look in the personas, in the personality of the player he's going to sign, sometimes it seems he only analyses the quality, the reports, and the numbers.

Eh, Sabre...
What exactly do you mean about Keane ? He was a regular player and score, scoring 20+ goals the previous 3 seasons for Spudz....
He could hardly have expected to sit happily on the bench, esp. when he's joined his boyhood club....that'd be enuff to pi$$ anybody off....

I mean he hasn't been nor the first, nor the last player to do very well in mid teams, and failing to deliver in a top team.

That phenomenom is older that the cough!

I can't believe that this forum, in which excuses are not accepted almost never, the failure of Keane in Internazionale and in Liverpool are not seen as facts. Of course there are always good excuses for failure, I was too young, The Spanish coach was strange, the spaguetti aren't of my taste.

But facts are facts, and there have always been players that did well in some clubs, but failed in the big ones.

Keane is a good player. But he's not that good. Believe me. Meaning, he has enough quality to play in Liverpool, but not enough quality to be a key player. And IMHO, he's that kind of player that preffers to be the leader of a mid team, rather than a worker in a top team. He, you know, was "baffled" by the strange decissions of a strange spanish manager -- as if a player's job is questioning his manager's technical decissions.

Some players simply do not make it. Some others, like our John Aldridge, would score for Liverpool, in a Spanish mid team, in Portugal, and in Paris. Because they had the mindset for that.

Keane is one of those hundreds of good players that were not made for a big team, or for big goals. Without that meaning he's not a good player.

That's what I meant. Rafa has fúcked up in some decissions, but I don't think he's the culprit of Keane being that kind of loser.

He's in a Keanesque team now. He'll be happy there. A smaller club. There he'll be important, and he'll feel the King.

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:11 am

Everyone signs duds sometimes, and if you sign enough players everyone signs good ones sometimes too. The key obviously is signing enough good ones to make the duds irrelevent. I must admit I think luck is a factor which is often overlooked in transfers, sometimes for completely unforseeable reasons players just blossom, and others whither and die. Ronaldo was obviously an absolutely unbelieveable buy for the Mancs, but did Ferguson really know that he was signing the future best player in the World when signed as a spotty 19 year old or whatever he was? Torres was an unbelieveably good buy from Rafa, but did he really know that he was signing a player who was going to blossom like he has? DISCLAIMER FOR NUMPTIES-I AM NOT SAYING IT IS ALL DOWN TO LUCK WHEN YOU SIGN A GOOD PLAYER.

And so here we are, having signed some excellent players at good value, and having also signed some duds. I've always had our transfer dealings under the current manager broadly ever so slightly on the positive side of the ledger, and I think the signing of Aquilani is significant in that it will tip it one way or another. If he turns out to be a good buy, then I think we are comfortably in credit, if he doesn't then I think we are well behind. He is the six pointer as far as the balance sheet is concerned.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:35 am

don't knock Stuttgart. I think Hitzlsperger and Kuzmanovic would be useful

by **LFC2007** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:48 am

Hit and miss I'd say. Up until the arrival of Masch and Torres I would have said his dealings were a clear, if not a massive success, but since then we've seen the signings of Babel, Dossena and Keane which have tipped the balance quite significantly, IMO. A sprinkling of decent-good signings in between kept us ticking along (Benayoun, Riera, Skrtel for a while at least), but we really needed more for our £38m than we got with the aforementioned three. They contributed next to nothing and tied up a lot of money.

If Aquilani is a notable success that would restore some of the balance and I certainly can't see Johnson being anything other than a success.

by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:52 am

LFC2007 wrote:Hit and miss I'd say. Up until the arrival of Masch and Torres I would have said his dealings were a clear, if not massive success, but since then we've seen the signings of Babel, Dossena and Keane which have tipped the balance quite significantly, IMO. A sprinkling of decent-good signings in between kept us ticking along (Benayoun, Riera, Skrtel for a while at least), but we really needed more for our £38m than we got with the aforementioned three. They contributed next to nothing and tied up a lot of money.

Hit and miss would be correct, but it's true that we're currently under the miss part as of late.

I'd consider Agger a hit, but that was an early hit aswell.

It's true that Aquilani's future will determine in a good way his balance of hits and miss.

by **Yossi_Benaloon** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:56 am

If we can get some money for him then i would welcome any deal to get Degen off the books. While he was never really given a chance, in the small times he played the Swiss lad never really impressed. With the cash sale of Voronin confirmed, and the money for Dossena, then if we could rake in more funds with the sale of another squad player then it can swell the coffers at Anfield and also lower the wage bill which would be good for the longer term future of Liverpool.

Liverpool FC Forum

Philip degen - To stuttgart

Who is online