Liverpool FC Forum

by **mike72** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:43 pm

I've been pondering on the possible sale of Babel and the players we have been linked with, and what sort of qualities we need in new players to turn things around.

I think we clearly lack pace and power in the team...we are weak on set pieces at both ends of the pitch and could do with having more players in the team who are tall and powerful with good heading ability. Also, aside from Torres, we are desperately short of the ability to beat opponents with raw pace...we have one or two tricky players like Benayoun, but sometimes when our few genuinely creative players are not firing on all cylinders, we are crying out for a player we can just give the ball to and let him run at the defence like Lennon. This problem becomes especially apparent whenever Kuyt gets the ball and at best we keep possession by him passing it backwards and at worst we just lose possession...

Babel in his first season looked like he could be a world beater with a few more seasons under his belt, but he has had his chances and if anything has regressed badly since his first season, and his attitude is poor. But he is also one of the few players in the squad with genuine pace. If I could trust that the money for Babel would go towards a quality creative winger with pace to replace him, then I would be all for it...if on the other hand the money isn't going to be spent to make a genuine improvement, or is going to go straight into the pockets of the Americans, then Babel must stay.

by **damjan193** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:19 pm

Well I must agree with you about the set pieces in our game...actully everyone would.We need a good, tall defender with a good heading ability.I was looking at that Danish kid from Palermo, Kjaer.A hell of a defender for the set piece.We could really use him.As much as I'd hate it, we should sell Agger if that kind of a deffender becomes good enough to be in the starting 11.I think that that defender could be Kjaer.

As for a creativ midfielder... I think that we are short on those.Benny's good, Aquilani should be one and Gerrard ofcourse but we obviosly have no such player on our wings.I must admit I like Kuyt very much, but he's not a good wing player, no creativity, just hard work.IF we are to sell Babel but as you said to raise founds for a good right winger, like Maxi Rodrigez.I would be nice to have a REAL right winger, something that we havent had for ages, and I think that Rodrigez will be just the man for the job.I hope that Rafa succeds to sign him.

And ofcourse, we need a good striker, to sub Torres when needed.Nistelrooy could come in handy.A good and experienced Premier League player, but doubt that we could afford his weekly pay.I cant think of another good sub for Torres, but one thing is for sure, we need one as hell.And if we need funds to sign a good striker, we should sell Voronin.

And for God sake, we need a real full back.Johnson, Aurelio, Insua, Degen... they're wing backs and very often go in attack, leaving the defence with only 2 deffenders.I hated Arbeloa at the time but at least he was a full back.

by **Snake** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:41 pm

Don't forget that lad Finnan too :P

When defending from set pieces, we have Skrtel as the tall player and Carragher the threat-marker, however, the reason why we seem weak in set pieces is because of our Zonal Marking System. However, Rafa thinks that Zonal Marking is just as powerful (or rather weak) as Man Marking.

As for attacking from set pieces, we have a couple of players that can deliver the ball firmly namely Gerrard and Aurelio, and tall finishers like Kuyt and Torres, but that's about it. The rest of the players can easily be shrugged off, and the defender's heading ability in goal is very poor considering the amount of misses they've made specifically Agger this season. If you're gonna go up front in the box, at least head the ball right :P

Our attacking is poor because our wings are practically dead. Kuyt no longer has the pace to pass defenders and cross unlike Johnson, and Riera has been suffering constant injuries which makes Rafa put Aurelio instead, who has the same problem as Kuyt.

Our hopes of getting better relies on Aquilani to be match-fit, a decent winger like Rodriguez and a physical assisting forward like Carlton Cole.

by **Owzat** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:24 am

Win games....................................... duh

by **Sir Roger** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:09 am

Snake wrote:Don't forget that lad Finnan too :P

When defending from set pieces, we have Skrtel as the tall player and Carragher the threat-marker, however, the reason why we seem weak in set pieces is because of our Zonal Marking System. However, Rafa thinks that Zonal Marking is just as powerful (or rather weak) as Man Marking.

As for attacking from set pieces, we have a couple of players that can deliver the ball firmly namely Gerrard and Aurelio, and tall finishers like Kuyt and Torres, but that's about it. The rest of the players can easily be shrugged off, and the defender's heading ability in goal is very poor considering the amount of misses they've made specifically Agger this season. If you're gonna go up front in the box, at least head the ball right :P

Our attacking is poor because our wings are practically dead. Kuyt no longer has the pace to pass defenders and cross unlike Johnson, and Riera has been suffering constant injuries which makes Rafa put Aurelio instead, who has the same problem as Kuyt.

Our hopes of getting better relies on Aquilani to be match-fit, a decent winger like Rodriguez and a physical assisting forward like Carlton Cole.

Quite a dismal picture youve painted there
I am most disturbed by the: "As for attacking from set pieces, we have a couple of players that can deliver the ball firmly namely Gerrard and Aurelio,"
Are we to believe that these are the only two players who can take corners or free kicks? Nobody else is capable of kicking a ball from a corner flag into the penalty box?
Absolutely staggering!

by **Scottbot** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:52 am

I spent a good chunk of my day off yesterday (my college is snowed shut!) watching the Treble DVD. It's the first time i've watched it in a couple of years and the thing that stands out the most is just how dangerous we were at set pieces. We had Gary Mac and Murphy scoring with a good share of direct free-kicks and we were a big powerful side with the likes of Gerrard, Hyppia, Babel and Biscan attacking the ball at corners. We were such a physical team. We certainly need to get some of that back at set-pieces because we can't defend them and you never fancy us to get anything from when we win them either.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:54 am

damjan193 wrote:Well I must agree with you about the set pieces in our game...actully everyone would.We need a good, tall defender with a good heading ability.I was looking at that Danish kid from Palermo, Kjaer.A hell of a defender for the set piece.We could really use him.As much as I'd hate it, we should sell Agger if that kind of a deffender becomes good enough to be in the starting 11.I think that that defender could be Kjaer.

I think City are being linked with an £18 million bid for this lad in a couple of the papers this morning. With the way things are the club we will unfortunately require a bargain of Sami Hyppia proportions if we want to see the centre of our defence improved

by **shawnk** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:56 am

Scottbot wrote:I spent a good chunk of my day off yesterday (my college is snowed shut!) watching the Treble DVD. It's the first time i've watched it in a couple of years and the thing that stands out the most is just how dangerous we were at set pieces. We had Gary Mac and Murphy scoring with a good share of direct free-kicks and we were a big powerful side with the likes of Gerrard, Hyppia, Babel and Biscan attacking the ball at corners. We were such a physical team. We certainly need to get some of that back at set-pieces because we can't defend them and you never fancy us to get anything from when we win them either.

It would be worse if we still have Mr. Calamity as our number 1.

by **Sir Roger** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:02 am

Scottbot wrote:I spent a good chunk of my day off yesterday (my college is snowed shut!) watching the Treble DVD. It's the first time i've watched it in a couple of years and the thing that stands out the most is just how dangerous we were at set pieces. We had Gary Mac and Murphy scoring with a good share of direct free-kicks and we were a big powerful side with the likes of Gerrard, Hyppia, Babel and Biscan attacking the ball at corners. We were such a physical team. We certainly need to get some of that back at set-pieces because we can't defend them and you never fancy us to get anything from when we win them either.

Our set piece plays are abysmal and embarrassing. The crowd used to get excited at a corner for us because it meant an advantage an opportunity to score.
I would love to know what goes on in training because all set-piece plays seem to be ignored. Also passing and moving, ball retention, wing play, overlapping, crosses from the by-line, attacking in numbers, you name it, we dont do it.
Seriously has anyone been to Melwood recently and seen what goes on in training, or knows anyone who knows?

by **bigmick** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:52 am

I think leaving aside the technicalities a bit, we need some character in the team, some ersehole, some men. Johnson has disappointed me in that direction, I really rate him as a player but I thought he would be all Rio Ferdinand pricklyness, whereas he's coming accross as a really nice lad which is no good to anyone. Alonso was a man, not in a lets take it outside kind of way, but he wasn't a bottle job, a sit on his erse merchant. Players such as Aquilani, Lucas, N'Gog, Babel, Insua, Aurelio, Benayoun, Riera, N'Gog etc etc need to have a couple of men in and amongst them. Players like Torres shouldn't be getting the sh!t kicked out of him with no support. I long for the day when we surround the ref, or it kicks off in one of our matches, with players running 50 yards to get involved.

As it is we play in ones and twos, we battle in ones and two's, we complain to the ref in ones and two's, and too often we don't relish the battle. Move Gerrard into central midfield for Lucas, and replace our captain with a Tim Cahill in behind Torres, a Wayne Rooney, a Craig Bellamy and we're at least five or six points better off so far this season IMHO. That's what we need, some ersehole.

by **spion** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:13 pm

Turn things around? If we beat Spurs on Sunday I'd say things are going quite well. We started badly but could be close to going on an undefeated run. After the fact we cant win the league or champions league for another year sank in I've started to enjoy my football again. We can make this season a relative sucsess if we lower the heady expectations which have been weighing the players down. The europa cup will be a pleasant aside away from the premier league & with the pressure off I expect to see the team play better football. Rafas pledge of fourth place might look a bit more possible after sunday. Stop looking down lads.

by **Sir Roger** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:36 pm

bigmick wrote:I think leaving aside the technicalities a bit, we need some character in the team, some ersehole, some men. Johnson has disappointed me in that direction, I really rate him as a player but I thought he would be all Rio Ferdinand pricklyness, whereas he's coming accross as a really nice lad which is no good to anyone. Alonso was a man, not in a lets take it outside kind of way, but he wasn't a bottle job, a sit on his erse merchant. Players such as Aquilani, Lucas, N'Gog, Babel, Insua, Aurelio, Benayoun, Riera, N'Gog etc etc need to have a couple of men in and amongst them. Players like Torres shouldn't be getting the sh!t kicked out of him with no support. I long for the day when we surround the ref, or it kicks off in one of our matches, with players running 50 yards to get involved.

As it is we play in ones and twos, we battle in ones and two's, we complain to the ref in ones and two's, and too often we don't relish the battle. Move Gerrard into central midfield for Lucas, and replace our captain with a Tim Cahill in behind Torres, a Wayne Rooney, a Craig Bellamy and we're at least five or six points better off so far this season IMHO. That's what we need, some ersehole.

Id say we needed a leader as well.
A captain who gets stuck in and tells players to pull their finger out. Someone who "orders his troops" as it were, and wont be intimidated by the opposition or lets his disappointment with his team mates hold him back.
Gerrard is a fine captain and leads through example rather than through direction.
Lets hope he can set an example sooner rather than later

by **stmichael** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:59 pm

Scottbot wrote:I spent a good chunk of my day off yesterday (my college is snowed shut!) watching the Treble DVD. It's the first time i've watched it in a couple of years and the thing that stands out the most is just how dangerous we were at set pieces. We had Gary Mac and Murphy scoring with a good share of direct free-kicks and we were a big powerful side with the likes of Gerrard, Hyppia, Babel and Biscan attacking the ball at corners. We were such a physical team. We certainly need to get some of that back at set-pieces because we can't defend them and you never fancy us to get anything from when we win them either.

I think it's a fair point. We just aren't dominant in the air at the back anymore which means that both attacking and defending set pieces become a problem, not to mention the awful delivery 95% of the time.

For example I could cite about 3 guilt edged opportunities Agger has missed this season that Hyypia would have buried.

by **loopyliverpool** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:08 pm

Aurelio at left back, Mascherano with Gerrard in the middle of the park, Babel left mid/wing or Reira, Kuyt or Babel right mid/wing, Benayoun playing just behind Torres in the 'Beardsley' role and the rest as you are. Also get rid of the zonal marking and concentrate on man to man...

by **arcininefirstblast** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:48 am

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