Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:34 am

Wake up lads ! Well im not a lad but Im awake, infact Ive been awake most of the night, worrying about the direction the club is heading into and it looks like its heading into an oblivion.
I dont have answers to our current problems (owners aside) but what I see a group of players, that do not want to either play for Liverpool football club anymore, or for Rafa Benitez anymore? Or cant be @rsed because they will be heading for the exit anyway should the inevitable happen.

I feel it will happen now, whether it be this week or at the end of the season, I am not sure where the owners will get the money from probably another loan, or wait for him to walk.
He looked like a broken man yesterday and was nearly in tears I do not want to see him like this, I think he should walk away with his pride and dignity intact, because the amount of abuse he is recieving is unfair, he should be critized along with the players, but I cannot stand him being called a fat spanish waiter and a tw@t by some of our spectators.

I feel what BM said is true that we are on a life support machine at the moment, and prolonging the agony is not doing anyone any favours, this team is not going to come back to life under Rafa, because they are waiting for the inevitable to happen.

Im very fond of Rafa and Im hurt for him at the moment that his players have no respect for him anymore apart from 1 or 2.

by **bigmick** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:36 am

red37 wrote:You dont like Rafa - fine. Not a problem - but there is no way you'd be advised to go round 'mocking' folk who eat, sleep, s.hit and breathe LIVERPOOL FC. They are in pain atm. You seem to revel in 'rubbing their noses in it'

Now thats all there is to say. Stop acting 'cute or clever' and call a spade a f*ckin spade for once and the forum will benefit.

As for you Thinkpad - wind yer neck in.

What's all this spade a spade sh!t? I think he's been a fecking disaster, and I've already made it clear how I think this particular 'situation' has been handled. I've had a post on the main boards off a mod, a post with the opening line of "Mick," where I've been accused of allsorts of b0ll0cks, and I think it's poxy. I've made it pretty clear what I think.

I've also said I aren't interested in your interjections, or your opinion that I'm enjoying the fact we aren't winning football matches. I've endured such comments for three years, "not a real fan" and all that sh!t. The insinuation that other fans are in some way "hurting" more than others because the others are rejoicing at being "proven right", gloating into the process is frankly a fecking disgrace and a joke.

Anyway get the last word in and I'm done with you and this subject, just fecking leave me alone fella and do what you gotta do.

by **Thinkpad** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:44 am

I believe my stand on David Moores and Rafa has never been viewed favourably by the "true fans". They don't want people to tell them the truth, they prefer to live in ignorance. Selling the club to the 2 clowns was primarily done for the extra 3millions not because they represented best option for the club to go forward. They sold out because they love MONEY... not Liverpool. Even now, I find it troubling "true fans" are still so myopic with their views and more so with their curt "I am sitting on their high horse" mentality.

Similarly, Rafa is not going to be the manager to bring success to Liverpool with his lack of tactics acumen on the field. People keep talking about how good he is with tactics, are selling the same shiit over and over again after one or two good showing. If he is sooooo good with tactics, he doesn't need a team of superstar and still get bitten so often by minnows. I supposed these are not something you want to hear. Buying or "trading" players like a child has just been given a no limit credit card. It really makes you wonder the gossip about managers making some money out of transfers can't be true even more preposterous... H.ell...Money makes the world go round. Maybe, he is trying to grease his path to agents by buying up sh.it.load of their useless ware. Laughable..

The biggest loser in this current situation is Liverpool. Rafa is going make the club sack him to get the millions "owed" to him. Why wait for a few years to earn a few millions, just perform badly now and force the club to sack him. He already build up all the excuses in the world to use. When he does leave, he will just point his chubby fingers to the club and owner and says it's your fault. With his "credentials" I am sure he will find another "victim" to build his stock of players and leave as soon as financial difficulties pile up. Seriously, after watching the last few Liverpool games, it became so apparent that he is making the current situation rather than curtailing it. He set in motion a detailed plan to get himself sacked and a plan to lay the blame on the owners... Make no mistake of this.

by **banana** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:05 am

Thinkpad wrote:I believe my stand on David Moores and Rafa has never been viewed favourably by the "true fans". They don't want people to tell them the truth, they prefer to live in ignorance. Selling the club to the 2 clowns was primarily done for the extra 3millions not because they represented best option for the club to go forward. They sold out because they love MONEY... not Liverpool. Even now, I find it troubling "true fans" are still so myopic with their views and more so with their curt "I am sitting on their high horse" mentality.

Similarly, Rafa is not going to be the manager to bring success to Liverpool with his lack of tactics acumen on the field. People keep talking about how good he is with tactics, are selling the same shiit over and over again after one or two good showing. If he is sooooo good with tactics, he doesn't need a team of superstar and still get bitten so often by minnows. I supposed these are not something you want to hear. Buying or "trading" players like a child has just been given a no limit credit card. It really makes you wonder the gossip about managers making some money out of transfers can't be true even more preposterous... H.ell...Money makes the world go round. Maybe, he is trying to grease his path to agents by buying up sh.it.load of their useless ware. Laughable..

The biggest loser in this current situation is Liverpool. Rafa is going make the club sack him to get the millions "owed" to him. Why wait for a few years to earn a few millions, just perform badly now and force the club to sack him. He already build up all the excuses in the world to use. When he does leave, he will just point his chubby fingers to the club and owner and says it's your fault. With his "credentials" I am sure he will find another "victim" to build his stock of players and leave as soon as financial difficulties pile up. Seriously, after watching the last few Liverpool games, it became so apparent that he is making the current situation rather than curtailing it. He set in motion a detailed plan to get himself sacked and a plan to lay the blame on the owners... Make no mistake of this.

This sums up what the fools are thinking without answering or solving the fundamental issue;

will a new manager build the stadium?

will the new manager have the money to buy players?

For the last two seasons we have financed every purchase by selling players plus a fraction of the Champions League revenue

Next year we may sell just to avoid bankruptcy and there will be no replacements.

by **Owzat** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:15 am

Thinkpad wrote:The biggest loser in this current situation is Liverpool. Rafa is going make the club sack him to get the millions "owed" to him. Why wait for a few years to earn a few millions, just perform badly now and force the club to sack him. He already build up all the excuses in the world to use. When he does leave, he will just point his chubby fingers to the club and owner and says it's your fault. With his "credentials" I am sure he will find another "victim" to build his stock of players and leave as soon as financial difficulties pile up. Seriously, after watching the last few Liverpool games, it became so apparent that he is making the current situation rather than curtailing it. He set in motion a detailed plan to get himself sacked and a plan to lay the blame on the owners... Make no mistake of this.

I doubt he is trying to make a quick buck out of this, it may seem he should have walked already, but then why would he after last season was a widely acclaimed success?

I think he has just chosen a wrong path and gone so far down it he will have to do a lot of back tracking quickly, or find an alternative route to the right one which he seems incapable of finding. He's stuck in a system that when it worked was great, but wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. Now Alonso has gone the system is failing badly, we have no back-up striker because Rafa wasted £20.3m on Keane and u-turned on that without replacing him. He put all his eggs in one basket in the summer, buying a RB which wasn't really our problem, and a CM to replace Alonso but has yet to make many appearances, and all that used up near £40m.

He won't admit he's wrong, there are too often ready made excuses and he's obviously feeling the strain when boldly claiming we will finish fourth. Our prospects of doing so are looking poor, I agree with the view that he knows his time will be up if we don't finish fourth so he may as well try and get people on board by "being confident" in his assertions

09/10 The Race For Fourth

02. Man Utd P18 PTS 37
03. Arsenal P17 PTS 35
04. Aston Villa P18 PTS 35
----------------------------------------
05. Tottenham P18 PTS 33
06. Man City P17 PTS 29
07. LIVERPOOL P18 PTS 27
08. Birmingham P17 PTS 27
09. Fulham P17 PTS 26

Stoke have an outside shot, 21 points from 17 games but they would have to catch up 14 points with only one game in hand over villa.

At the moment we're only seventh because we've played a game more than brum and Fulham. We're eight points behind villa and six behind spudz so will have to hit some real form to push up the table and take fourth. We couldn't beat the side bottom, in fact our record by league positions is pretty ordinary

LFC Premiership Results By Position

01-04 : P4 W1 D0 L3 PTS 3 (Won 25.00%)
05-10 : P5 W0 D2 L3 PTS 2 (Won 0.00%)
11-17 : P7 W6 D1 L0 PTS 19 (Won 85.71%)
18-20 : P2 W1 D0 L1 PTS 3 (Won 50.00%)

We've beaten only one top half team, the mancs at home. Most of our wins have come against teams 11th to 17th, four of those were at home. Our Three away wins came against the bitters (15th), Bolton (17th) and West Ham (19th) but we couldn't repeat away success against Portsmouth (20th) We do have a record under Benitez of losing to at least one side who end up relegated, Crystal Palace, Reading and Boro springing immediately to mind (Southampton making up the four sides who've beaten us and been relegated in the same season)

by **JohnBull** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:06 pm

I cannot believe that Raffa has suddenly become a dishonest man. I do not believe that he has some hidden agenda to get a big payoff.
The man is just out of his depth and has become so obsessed with the details that he's lost the picture.
We are being beaten by teams made up of "bargain basement" players. Not because they are better than us but because they are being asked to do a simple job that they can do, unlike us where half the team haven't got a clue what Raffa is about.
We were always based on a basic "pass and move" system, triangles of passing up the wings, Christ, I used to know the first three passes of every game if we were kicking off. Now? You are lucky if you know all the team.
It's all about building good habits and never giving up on them.
All this :censored:

about supporting Raffa "for the good of Liverpool" is a joke. This is the man who threw the towel in against Reading a couple of years ago. I never thought that I would see a Liverpool manager do that in my life time. This is the man who threw away the World Club Championship against a weak gang of Argies because he wanted to be cautious. We were beaten yesterday by a man who has lost the will to win. He's just too stubborn to admit it.
No long now anyway !

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:16 pm

I posted this in the match thread but its more suitable in here ,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (Ciggy @ Dec. 20 2009,08:49)
Quote (fivecups @ Dec. 20 2009,08:47)
Rafa's post match interview

Very sad. He can hardly speak. Sad times.

I know, its horrible to see him like this.

I hadnt seen that Cigg, Fecking hell i wish he would just walk now, tbh, i cant stand the ammount of turmoil , disrespect from players, an backstabbing thats going on anymore, i love an respect the man to much to see him like that, I dont want to see him humiliated any more , and a few of our players need to have a look at themselves because they are involved in this , fECK IT rAFA LAD WALK AWAY MATE

by **roberto green** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:22 pm

NANNY RED wrote:I posted this in the match thread but its more suitable in here ,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (Ciggy @ Dec. 20 2009,08:49)
Quote (fivecups @ Dec. 20 2009,08:47)
Rafa's post match interview

Very sad. He can hardly speak. Sad times.

I know, its horrible to see him like this.

I hadnt seen that Cigg, Fecking hell i wish he would just walk now, tbh, i cant stand the ammount of turmoil , disrespect from players, an backstabbing thats going on anymore, i love an respect the man to much to see him like that, I dont want to see him humiliated any more , and a few of our players need to have a look at themselves because they are involved in this , fECK IT rAFA LAD WALK AWAY MATE

I know I posted his interview on the match forum last night and when I saw his interview I thought it was the most embarrasing and disrespectful interviews ever and I thought you can't get any lower than this, you had the feeling his future would be getting talked over with his missus last night.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:36 pm

roberto green wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:I posted this in the match thread but its more suitable in here ,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (Ciggy @ Dec. 20 2009,08:49)
Quote (fivecups @ Dec. 20 2009,08:47)
Rafa's post match interview

Very sad. He can hardly speak. Sad times.

I know, its horrible to see him like this.

I hadnt seen that Cigg, Fecking hell i wish he would just walk now, tbh, i cant stand the ammount of turmoil , disrespect from players, an backstabbing thats going on anymore, i love an respect the man to much to see him like that, I dont want to see him humiliated any more , and a few of our players need to have a look at themselves because they are involved in this , fECK IT rAFA LAD WALK AWAY MATE

I know I posted his interview on the match forum last night and when I saw his interview I thought it was the most embarrasing and disrespectful interviews ever and I thought you can't get any lower than this, you had the feeling his future would be getting talked over with his missus last night.

I honestly want him to Walk, Roberto,

Ive got to much respect for the man to see him being treated like this, Fecking heartbreaking, an them sh.ithouse over payed players need to have a long hard look at themselves because theve paid a big part in him being treated like this,

by **parchpea** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:39 pm

Sacking Benitez wont fix the clubs financial problems or build a stadium but it will give the players and fans a fresh start and give us something to be optimistic about. At the end of the day enjoying watching your team play is what its all about and frankly we just are not getting that the way the team is being managed.You only have to look at those lads yesterday to see they are not enjoying their football and its just needs to be mixed up to get the players and support feeling good about games again.Fact is all managers get canned eventually and Benitez should have gone long ago let alone be kept on the books to dig us into a bigger hole than he put us in already.Lets move on.

by **shawnk** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:06 pm

@parchpea
A legend like Kenny Dalglish can do exactly that as a care-taker to remind the players what's like and what it takes to play for Liverpool. Pretty sure it would lift the players' spirit.

by **mart** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:14 pm

JohnBull wrote:The man is just out of his depth and has become so obsessed with the details that he's lost the picture.
We are being beaten by teams made up of "bargain basement" players. Not because they are better than us but because they are being asked to do a simple job that they can do, unlike us where half the team haven't got a clue what Raffa is about.

Yea thats summer vacation for you. Players usually return with half their IQ and suddenly forget everything they did last year.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:19 pm

shawnk wrote:@parchpea
A legend like Kenny Dalglish can do exactly that as a care-taker to remind the players what's like and what it takes to play for Liverpool. Pretty sure it would lift the players' spirit.

Shawn if any player needs reminding what its like to play for Liverpool then they shouldnt be here , an i dont care who it is

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:46 pm

red37 wrote:Mick

Where does your rhetoric derive from? Its almost to the edge of 'sneering sarcasm' at times. Or as kazza has mentioned - gloating.

3 opinions which are probably valid at this juncture:

1. Supporters are willing to stick by Rafa and the club
2. Some may well be undecided either way
3. Vehemently wishing for change

I cannot fathom which of the above category your demeanor belongs in. Its quite plainly obvious that you 'lean' towards option 3.

But where is YOUR passion here? If you wish to see the present manager changed, or if you are as fed up by the teams fortunes as we all are and feel it is necessary to 'rip it up and start again' - then state it. Plainly and to the point. No benefit is gained by seemingly rubbing it in, ah i told you so - anally pointing out, or taking the pi55 if you will - the mannerisms and such of Rafa.

I could understand, perhaps even empathise with your 'angle' if it were charged with a bit more 'blood and thunder' as opposed to this subtle 'sweet and sour' approach we get. call it straight man, instead of pu55yfooting about. This aint the subject for long winded, flowery (sarcastic) prose...

The polar opposite of your approach is what you would be expecting to hear, when you might reside your opinion in option 3. Not by taking the pi55...or having a gloat.

Me? My view (should it matter, or be up for debate)? Im in option 2. And it saddens me to admit that much.
But, were i to be firmly of the opinion that Rafa needs to go...i'd be coming at it a bit more directly and with far more 'fire'.

Now as for this little 'side dish' concerning kazza and yourself, which is nicely simmering away again - lets knock that one on the head here and now. Ok with you kazza?

Total boll0cks Red37 :no

by **banana** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:06 pm

JohnBull wrote:We are now in a similar situation as Leeds and Newcastle were a few years ago.
We are still believing that Liverpool Football Club are invunerable and that "it will all turn out OK in the end". It wont.
It's not just Raffa. I genuuinely believe that he's a honest man who really believes in his methods. That self belief is fast becoming his downfall as it is not working with the players HE has signed. These are his players and his methods and they are just not up to it.
It is not just the players. We've two of the greatest Red Shirt Fillers I've ever seen over the past 50 years. The others are not bad players but they either do not understand or just do not want to play in Raffa's gameplan. We keep signing journeymen who are here for the money. I don't blame them for doing that but it's not doing my team any favours. They are grateful for the wage packet but not for the honour of playing for Liverpool.
It is not just the directors/owners. They've not come to Anfield to destroy the club. It is business and it is in their interest to succeed. Sitting in the stands with a brand new scarf on doesn't make you a supporter. They are here to make money, first, second and last.
I believe that we are now reaping the fruit of those years in the 80s when opportunity knocked and was ignored by a club that was resting on its laurels.
Shanks and Paisley made everything seem easy but unfortunately others didn't realise how hard it was to make it appear like that. Me included, it just seemed unstoppable, The Red Bandwagon. One star would come to the end of his shelf life and the next one was ready and waiting to come in.

We are now a club that needs to make big money signings which we cannot afford. The team ethic has gone. No players seem to be coming up through the ranks already knowing their place and requirements in the side.
I know that bargains are not there anymore, there are no more Keegans or Clements waiting to be nicked from Scunthorpe.
I also believe that we are paying good money for players who are no better than some of our homegrown lads.
I went over to The Acadamy last week and you may as well have been in Spain. Where are the local lads going ? I was watching expensive imports there but down the road I could watch local lads with similar skills and a bloody sight more commitment playing good football for nothing.
The few times I've seen Torres around town I've seen a modest, well behaved lad who is a credit to the club. The same cannot be said for some of the over rated superstars (both Red & Blue) who swan around with an unjustified arrogance. Torres is a breath of fresh air at Anfield but he is by far, an exception. Shanks would have loved him. I'm struggling to think of another import who would pass this test (probably Kuyt, honest and hard working).
The club is in a BIG mess and it will not recover overnight. The shake-up that is coming had better be a good one or we will never recover.
This is The Last Chance Saloon.

These are the facts. We are banktrupt. We are dead. So is life. It was a nice ride. Now it is over. I don't know if I'm so unhappy really. Football ain't what it used to be. There is no connection between the fans and the players. It's just business. I might as well start routing for ExxonMobil or Chevron. I'm getting old and my priorities have changed. Football has changed. And Liverpool has died.

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