Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ciggy** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:40 pm

NANNY RED wrote:spill the beans John, an are them two still here , beacause i think they are an will try an play mr billy big boll.ocks on wed night shanks night

A little dicky bird has said they will sneak on the team bus and get into the ground that way.

John surely they wouldnt sack rafa with Shanks anniversary this week, what a sorry state of affairs this club has become :no

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:41 pm

JohnBull wrote:Get a bus at the Jolly Miller tomorrow morning, get on the top deck as it goes down Mellwood Drive and count the security on the gates.
Went past there today and the last time I saw this many guards it was goodbye Houllier.

maybe protecting them two after what happend yesterday,maybe they were at the training ground

by **redbeergoggles** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:04 am

It take s a wise man who knows when to bow out ,so with that said I bid you goodnight ,I feel I need to step away from the fray before it results in my banning (plus I've just got the nod off the Mrs )

so she has obviously been at my bank account ...

Ps.....Dont all you anti's get h@rdons ,the wise man I was referring to was me not Rafa

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:06 am

Reds on a promise :;):

by **Ciggy** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:10 am

NANNY RED wrote:Reds on a promise

Lucky him

by **loopyliverpool** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:34 am

s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:Gerrard out to avert Liverpool 'meltdown'

At the start of the season, we had intentions of being in the title race, especially after finishing second last year.

"That was a big confidence boost. It gave us the belief we could fight all the way, but we've had a bad start.

Poor preparation in pre season

Proper Planning & Preparation Prevents Poor Performance, obviously Rafa fecked it up as usual!

Totally agree Saint. We looked very leaden from our first game against Spurs and the signs were there in our pre-season games. I honestly thought we would come on lots for the the actual start of the season like a thoroughbred horse who needs a good run out before a top class race.... but it didn't happen and when we've eventually found the right fitness levels we've had crucial injuries and an extremely low confidence.

by **stmichael** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:40 pm

In my opinion the players need to have a hard look at themselves the most. Seems like most of them have been feeling sorry for themselves all season. Some seiously need to grow a pair.

by **banana** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:45 pm

JohnBull wrote:We are now in a similar situation as Leeds and Newcastle were a few years ago.
We are still believing that Liverpool Football Club are invunerable and that "it will all turn out OK in the end". It wont.
It's not just Raffa. I genuuinely believe that he's a honest man who really believes in his methods. That self belief is fast becoming his downfall as it is not working with the players HE has signed. These are his players and his methods and they are just not up to it.
It is not just the players. We've two of the greatest Red Shirt Fillers I've ever seen over the past 50 years. The others are not bad players but they either do not understand or just do not want to play in Raffa's gameplan. We keep signing journeymen who are here for the money. I don't blame them for doing that but it's not doing my team any favours. They are grateful for the wage packet but not for the honour of playing for Liverpool.
It is not just the directors/owners. They've not come to Anfield to destroy the club. It is business and it is in their interest to succeed. Sitting in the stands with a brand new scarf on doesn't make you a supporter. They are here to make money, first, second and last.
I believe that we are now reaping the fruit of those years in the 80s when opportunity knocked and was ignored by a club that was resting on its laurels.
Shanks and Paisley made everything seem easy but unfortunately others didn't realise how hard it was to make it appear like that. Me included, it just seemed unstoppable, The Red Bandwagon. One star would come to the end of his shelf life and the next one was ready and waiting to come in.

We are now a club that needs to make big money signings which we cannot afford. The team ethic has gone. No players seem to be coming up through the ranks already knowing their place and requirements in the side.
I know that bargains are not there anymore, there are no more Keegans or Clements waiting to be nicked from Scunthorpe.
I also believe that we are paying good money for players who are no better than some of our homegrown lads.
I went over to The Acadamy last week and you may as well have been in Spain. Where are the local lads going ? I was watching expensive imports there but down the road I could watch local lads with similar skills and a bloody sight more commitment playing good football for nothing.
The few times I've seen Torres around town I've seen a modest, well behaved lad who is a credit to the club. The same cannot be said for some of the over rated superstars (both Red & Blue) who swan around with an unjustified arrogance. Torres is a breath of fresh air at Anfield but he is by far, an exception. Shanks would have loved him. I'm struggling to think of another import who would pass this test (probably Kuyt, honest and hard working).
The club is in a BIG mess and it will not recover overnight. The shake-up that is coming had better be a good one or we will never recover.
This is The Last Chance Saloon.

We are exactly where Newcastle were 5 years ago.

I agree.

If you think you have seen the worst, just wait.

It will be a lot worse next year. We may have to fight just to stay in the premiership and to avoid banktrupcy.

by **POKERJOKERZ** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:43 am

JBG wrote:We will never become a Leeds simply because we are just too big. Let me clarify what I mean. Of course, things could go tits up, we run out of cash, need to sell of major players and maybe even get relegated (will never happen, but theoretically might) but even if we hit rock bottom there is so much money making potential in the club that it would only be a matter of time before new owners came in and rebuild. Look at Juventus a couple of years ago: forceably relegated, sold off most of their best players but came back up straight away and are now up at the business end of Seria A (although granted not yet at the level they were before). And as big as Juve are, as a worldwide brand, they aren't a patch on us.

While we are not immune from disasterous circumstances that might see us relegated (although that would result from primarily financial and not football reasons) we wouldn't stay down for long as we would be far too attractive a proposition for some investor to come along and revitalise us.

Whilst I might see where you are coming from, and I can understand your point, I am afraid I have to interject.

Not sure if you know but I am a United fan, and someone who burned my Season ticket on the 12th May 2005 and I havent set foot inside OT since the Glazers took over, and in my heart of hearts I know I most probably wont ever go back.

But Glazer was just the icing on the cake. Whether the club does or a nose dive or not, its actually getting to the point where I dont care anymore.

Now I bet you are there thinking "well you aren't much of a supporter.. you follow your team through thick and thin"

And 10 years ago, I'd have said the very same thing. When I set out on my United journey, I believed it was for life. Yes I still support United, and I am proud to say that, but when I see whats going on, whats happening, I realise that what I am looking at isnt the United I first saw back in September 1973.

I look now, and I see what the owners call a "brand" a worldwide, sellable asset. Something for the people in the world to become part of. Something everyone can join in with. If you live in Kazakstan you can be a loyal Man United supporter. One shirt and a subscription to United Online, and you are a fully fledged Manchester United supporter, whilst some nobhead sat in Tampa USA rakes in the millions. THe bloke on the terrace is there for show.. Hes part of the decoration to prove what a wonderful product they are selling.

When I look at that, I realise thats not Manchester United. Thats not what I bought into... My days of following United werent done so someone can walk in and pass off my loyalty to the team as a commodity to be sold. Just because I've spent my time and my money it doesnt give him the right to walk in and sell that loyalty, proving what a wonderful product he must own because I am loyal.

Manchester United is a business now, just as Liverpool is a business. But I would counter, that what you see inside Anfield, what you see inside Old Trafford, what you see inside Stamford Bridge, may be businesses, but the one thing they are not, is the same football clubs that were started over 100 years ago..

I look at Manchester united, and what I love is my memories. What I hang onto is the hope that one day it will go back to being what it was, where it came from. I buy into the ethos of the club and its history, as no doubt you do for Liverpool.

I do not look at United anymore as the club I first grew up adoring, and in many senses, you could say I am not a supporter anymore. I dont love what Manchester United are now.. I love what they were meant to be when it was formed, and all that it became over the 120 years prior to it being owned buy one single greedy idiot with no passion for United, only passion for the money it created.

Have I turned my back on Manchester United.. No. I haven't. Football turned its back on me.....

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:50 am

Are you sure your a Manc , your talking to much sense for my liking,

by **Kharhaz** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:55 am

NANNY RED wrote:Are you sure your a Manc , your talking to much sense for my liking,

I know quite a few united supporters, and a majority of them are like this fella. Know there stuff, only take the wee wee when they beat us, and generally only care about their club. Its the WOPDONGS that appear on here that give them a bad name !

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:25 am

Actually the Manc lad on here is making a lot of sense, and a lot more sense than a lot of our so called own. United have had their fare share of bandwagoners jump on without a clue down the years, we are no acception after 2005 and maybe before it. The point in case is what I (and many others I recall) have been saying for a few years since the Glazers took over there, only to have my views shot down as dismissive biase towards them. I think the reason why the effect of the Yanks there has taken so long (and yet to take a proper grip) is three reasons: Fergie, the massive brand name and fan base, and the most important thing over us - Old Trafford itself. It's a massive revenue generator, and it's kept their heads above water for this long, but how much longer it'll be able to sustain the debt is up for debate, but as our Manc friend here suggests, a colapse is just around the corner like the one we are witnessing here with us. Time will tell. But if, or when, it does happen, I wonder will those who poured scourn over the Benitez era here look back with some sense of shame of how they conducted themselves over a very harsh time for the club and manager alike. It'll be our shame as the self-proclaimed best supporters in the world.

by **Kharhaz** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:58 am

Emerald Red wrote:Time will tell. But if, or when, it does happen, I wonder will those who poured scourn over the Benitez era here look back with some sense of shame of how they conducted themselves over a very harsh time for the club and manager alike. It'll be our shame as the self-proclaimed best supporters in the world.

I doubt it. As long as rafa has got us into the top 4 his dubious decisions have been overlooked, whinged about at the time, but generally overlooked. This season its not about the supporters letting rafa down, over the years, the supporters have voiced their support for rafa, this season, its about rafa letting us down. So no, no shame here. We have all shown our support for rafa, signing petitions and voicing the things he has done well for the club. But we are not stupid, and we recognise the crippling things he has done that are not beneficial to the club with his selections. If their is shame and the end of rafas time with the club it lies with him, and his treatment of players and the tactics he chooses with each game.

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:04 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Time will tell. But if, or when, it does happen, I wonder will those who poured scourn over the Benitez era here look back with some sense of shame of how they conducted themselves over a very harsh time for the club and manager alike. It'll be our shame as the self-proclaimed best supporters in the world.

I doubt it. As long as rafa has got us into the top 4 his dubious decisions have been overlooked, whinged about at the time, but generally overlooked. This season its not about the supporters letting rafa down, over the years, the supporters have voiced their support for rafa, this season, its about rafa letting us down. So no, no shame here. We have all shown our support for rafa, signing petitions and voicing the things he has done well for the club. But we are not stupid, and we recognise the crippling things he has done that are not beneficial to the club with his selections. If their is shame and the end of rafas time with the club it lies with him, and his treatment of players and the tactics he chooses with each game.

As I said, a potentially title winning side one season doesn't become relagation fodder the next without major changes. Looking at St Steven Gerrard the past few matches, you'd think from some people that he can do no wrong and has a stormer, better than Lucas. When in reality, it's Lucas who has been the better of the two this season, and Gerrard looks as he's found out someone is banging his missus behind his back. His mind just isn't in the games at all. But I'm not aloud to say this. It's blasphemous. How dare I!

To put it simply, some will argue that Xabi was a massive loss and it's effecting us greatly. It is. But our biggest loss is our captain. We just don't seem to have one at the minute.

by **Kharhaz** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:11 am

Emerald Red wrote:But our biggest loss is our captain. We just don't seem to have one at the minute.

Right. He has lost confidence, form and faith. And this is where rafa is responsible. He has to restore it but he isnt capable of doing so.

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