Liverpool FC Forum

by **redbeergoggles** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:56 am

NANNY RED wrote:Look the way i see it is yes theres people who want rid but at the mo the majority want him to still be the boss, including me, I have said it before it will be the fans who go the match who will decide when his time is up. An Rafa will know this an all. Liverpool supporters can not be kidded , There are still some of us who think he will turn it around, and if he dosnt then the majority who support him now will turn, and will make it loud and clear, but until that day happens i for one will be supporting him , ffs we take enough sh.ite from outside the club from others without turning on each other,

Good sensible post Nan

by **DAV** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:58 am

yes that is a good post unlike yours

by **POKERJOKERZ** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:01 am

If I may, can i offer my outsiders view, as seen by a Manchester United supporter.

Now on face value, you'd expect me to say that you should keep Rafa simply to keep things going the way they are..

I dont deny there is that slight appeal to the situation.

But putting rivalry aside, I think you need to look at the situation in context, and look at it, taking who the club involved is, out of the equation.

Back in 1989 Sir Alex ( or rednose as you lot like to call him ) was within a whisper of getting hoofed out of Old Trafford on his backside. Some suggest it was luck that he manage to keep his job, some would argue Uniteds owners at the time felt that he should be given a little longer to finally implement his plans.

Now reverting back to Rafa ( I shall avoid calling him the fat spanish waiter just so I dont get banned ).

Hes been at Anfield what ? 5 years.. Is that really enough time to model a football team in the image that you require.

History tells us the managers that succeed are those that have built up a long term connection with the club. Cloughie didnt hit instant success with Forest. Fergie didnt hit instant success with United, and Liverpool greatest managers didnt either. For a start Paisley had many years under Shankly befoire getting to ply his trade, so its not like he walked in the door and hey presto instant success.

Rafa still has remnants of the Houllier era still in his team. And you could argue that whilst they are still there he would never be truly free to stamp his own mark on the team.

Now I am not suggesting for one minute that you should sell Gerrard. Only a complete idiot would even contemplate that, but can Rafa really run the team his own when when hes inherited a player like Gerrard who is the lynch pin of the team. WHom he couldnt get rid of even if he didnt believe that he is the player he really wants.

If Rafa even suggested getting rid of Gerrard, you lot would have him out of the job in minutes. But Gerrard may not be the future of Liverpool that Rafa wants.. In many ways, Rafa is playing a style he may not believe in, but has no choice bcause thats the way he has to do it.

Personally if I were unbiased, completely unbiased, I would say you have to give Rafe 5-6 more years. Let him make his own mark, let him develop a team that he doesnt feel he has to use. History suggests that you will actually find he is more than likely to succeed. Once he can do what he really wants and not what he is somehow forced to do.

Sadly for yourselves ( and great from my point of view ) the says of managers walking in and geting instant success are highly unlikely. In many ways Rafa set himself up on a pedastal too early. He won the CL in 2005 and thats set a benchmark for yourselves that he can never hope to get back to.. A victim of his own early success, you could say.

But personally, I believe Rafa was highly reliant on luck with his early success, and whilst in many ways you could argue that his early success is the only thing thats saving him now, it could also be argued that the early success papered over the cracks, and the real issues were in fact hidden and are just starting to appear now... and its Rafa that is suffering the backlash.

by **DAV** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:07 am

interesting
so what you are saying man utd fan is the champions league was 100% fluke . i agree
but just because fegie made it great how many fail.
i hate to sat say it but i would be an idiot if i didnt. Fergi is a great.
1 in a million. A million u use. giggs what is it he has won 11 premiership titles. so is rafa 1 in a million. i think not.

by **POKERJOKERZ** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:18 am

DAV wrote:interesting
so what you are saying man utd fan is the champions league was 100% is. i agree
but just because fegie made it great hoe many fail.
i hate to sat say it but i would be an idiot if i didnt. Fergi is a great.
1 in a million. A million u use. giggs what is it he has won 11 premiership titles. so is rafa 1 in a million. i think not.

Whilst I cant deny Fergie is great, my point is, what would have happened if the board at the time had taken the short term view and sacked him for his lack of success in his first 4 seasons.

How much of Fergies success can be put down to the sudden influx of money into football from TV revenue, money which United used to better effect than most other clubs. If that money hadnt arrived, would Fergie have been so great. I doubt it.

United played the commercial football game, and it worked for them, and with a great manager at the helm, and endless funds to spend, he got it about spot on.

But Mourhino gained success at Chelsea with the aid of a cheque book. Given time, no doubt he would have enjoyed similar success. Is he as talented as Fergie.. No, no where even close.

Rafa hasnt even had time to sort out his youth policy yet. Not really.. It was Fergies spending on youth that was the lynchpin of his success. But without the money and the time, he would never have done it.

Its no surprise that currenlty United are having to rely on their youth team again, because in 3-4 years United are in the doo - doo because there is no money to spend, so its either produce a new 1st team from the youth, or do a Leeds United... Because there wont be any big money spending to bail us out the muck...

The real worry is that Fergie wont be there, and can another manager build a team from the youth the way Fergie could.. I doubt that.....

SO in short, I would say stick with him. Let him develop his own team, his own methods, allow him time to develop the squad that he wants, not what hes forced to play...

And if it goes wrong, and Liverpool hit the slopes, at least one person on this forum will be happy..

by **redbeergoggles** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:19 am

Read his hello thread he's on a wind up and he's trying to bait us about Hillsborough ,the Di*k tried to say it was the Red boys who gave them a kicking in 2005 ,and I can personally vouch for a couple of the lads (bluenoses ) who still wear a smile about the Mancs they waded into that day

Ignore him

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:20 am

POKERJOKERZ wrote:Personally if I were unbiased, completely unbiased, I would say you have to give Rafe 5-6 more years.

Absolutely ourtrageous, you should definately be banned for that :;):

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:26 am

The only backlash Rafa is suffering , man utd fan :laugh:

as Dav called you, had me laughing that an all. is the backlash from the Media, phoneins , sky now it alls, half an half scarve wearers, forumites,He is not suffering any backlash at the games, He is being dissgussed a lot more in the pub after the match yes, But as ive said before we cant be kidded an he knows this himself,

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am

Cloughie didnt hit instant success with Forest

He pretty much did mate. Forest were 13th in division 2 when he took over in Jan 1975, the following season they won promotion to Division 1, the next season they won the League and league cup double.

I am willing to give any manager a season to get started

by **DAV** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am

Just to let you know manc
RAFA has sorted out the youth policy. please check our reserve team players. hungary,brazil,french all kinds of nations. What he has done is destory english players in our youth and reseves. I'm sure people now will give you 2 or 3 examples to prove me wrong. But check our reseves and youth, you will see for yourself. We sign about 10 a season from god knows where. And if they become anything like a half decent player we flog them.
Houlier was the same.
We have nothing coming through the ranks and we cant even use the the argument anymore "on paper we can beat anyone player for player" Torres, Gerrard, ( i will say Carragher even though u will disagree) thats about it. We have an italian who must sleep with RAFA to keep him fit for bed time at 20million. and the some decent players and a hell of alot of :censored:

.

by **redbeergoggles** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:29 am

DAV wrote:yes that is a good post unlike yours

oooooooh the claws

by **redbeergoggles** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:35 am

POKERJOKERZ wrote:1 in a million. A million u use. giggs what is it he has won 11 premiership titles. so is rafa 1 in a million. i think not.

Whilst I cant deny Fergie is great, my point is, what would have happened if the board at the time had taken the short term view and sacked him for his lack of success in his first 4 seasons.

How much of Fergies success can be put down to the sudden influx of money into football from TV revenue, money which United used to better effect than most other clubs. If that money hadnt arrived, would Fergie have been so great. I doubt it.

United played the commercial football game, and it worked for them, and with a great manager at the helm, and endless funds to spend, he got it about spot on.

But Mourhino gained success at Chelsea with the aid of a cheque book. Given time, no doubt he would have enjoyed similar success. Is he as talented as Fergie.. No, no where even close.

Rafa hasnt even had time to sort out his youth policy yet. Not really.. It was Fergies spending on youth that was the lynchpin of his success. But without the money and the time, he would never have done it.

Its no surprise that currenlty United are having to rely on their youth team again, because in 3-4 years United are in the doo - doo because there is no money to spend, so its either produce a new 1st team from the youth, or do a Leeds United... Because there wont be any big money spending to bail us out the muck...

The real worry is that Fergie wont be there, and can another manager build a team from the youth the way Fergie could.. I doubt that.....

SO in short, I would say stick with him. Let him develop his own team, his own methods, allow him time to develop the squad that he wants, not what hes forced to play...

And if it goes wrong, and Liverpool hit the slopes, at least one person on this forum will be happy..

I[/quote]
Isn't your boyfriend getting lonely you don't want him :censored:

himself silly to all your Wayne Rooney posters ,you remember him the Scouser you silly Manc's idolise

by **POKERJOKERZ** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:35 am

redbeergoggles wrote:Read his hello thread he's on a wind up and he's trying to bait us about Hillsborough ,the Di*k tried to say it was the Red boys who gave them a kicking in 2005 ,and I can personally vouch for a couple of the lads (bluenoses ) who still wear a smile about the Mancs they waded into that day Ignore him

I actually find that wholly offensive.

If I may, may I point you to a poker site that I am planning.

http://www.pokerjokerz.com/fanstogether.html

This is part and parcel of what its all going to be about.

I actually am going to be doing an in depth section solely on incidents such as Hillsborough, the Bradford fire, The Ibrox disaster......

Your scepticism is very much expected, but wholly unfounded....

by **DAV** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:35 am

i have pm'd redbeergoggles as mods will verify if they wanted to.
what is your problem. an anti rafa post with anti rafa posts??
i have tried to end it and you won't.
what do you suggest redbeergoggles?

by **redbeergoggles** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:41 am

DAV wrote:i have pm'd redbeergoggles as mods will verify if they wanted to.
what is your problem. an anti rafa post with anti rafa posts??
i have tried to end it and you won't.
what do you suggest redbeergoggles?

Are you serious ,get real

Liverpool FC Forum

Sack him. if you want the manager sacked - ...put your thoughts in here.

Who is online