Change the team to this...
Reina
Johnson Carragher Agger Aurelio
Kuyt Gerrard Mascherano Riera
Benayoun
Torres
With this system we'd get Gerrard used to putting in a shift again - something we haven't had from him all season (I know he's had injuries and hasn't been full fitness). We'd also get Benayoun in his best position, get some proper width with Riera who is our only true winger. Kuyt is in poor form but history has shown he needs to be played back into form and is a player that comes to the fore when the team's on song, yet looks awful when we're not. Aurelio and Agger need games but are our best options at LB and CB respectively.
Obviously I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I'd have thought a clear the air meeting with players and coaching staff might be handy - clearly something's not right. If things need to be said, then let them be said and then get on with it.
I'd punt Babel, Voronin and Dossena to the under 18s to train, or as far from the 1st team squad as possible - all of them want to leave and may have a negative impact on morale - then get rid of them in January if we can.
I'd tell Mascherano to stop fu.cking around over his contract, and if he won't sign I'd contact Barce to see if they still want him.
I'd get Pacheco in and around the 1st team squad and start blooding him in. He's good enough this season.
.... that's if I was Benitez at the moment.
Oh, and I'd shut the fu.ck up and stop telling the press that we're guaranteed to finish top four.
What can we do... - To get out of this mess
by Octsky » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:35 am
In his series of wonderful dribbling, get Benny to cut down his performance by one step will do.
Get Rafa to be more flexible in his tactics and starting line up.
If we dont concede goals, the worst result we can get is a draw.
Get Rafa to be more flexible in his tactics and starting line up.
If we dont concede goals, the worst result we can get is a draw.
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by Kharhaz » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:51 am
What can we do?
Supporters
Well as supporters we have to get our own house in order. How many times have we heard booing at Anfield these last couple of seasons at either subsitutions, players performance or just our general play. Booing doesnt help anybody. It lowers confidence and makes the situation so much worse.
Just because you were born in Liverpool it doesnt make you more of a passionate supporter. Lately this seems to be separating the support for the club. Being born in Liverpool doesnt instantly class you as the top level supporter, the kind of supporter in which we all should aspire to. It means you were born in a city closer to the club reducing your fair to get to the ground. And many people from Liverpool tend to travel, born in Liverpool yes, but its rare that many people stay their.
The crowd, when things are going well are one of the best in the world, and this consists of OOters and locals. When things are going well, their is no questionable doubt, the support, wherever each individual comes from is the best in the world. When things are not going so well, the division appears and the blame is passed.
Spirit of Shankly. Is it just me who classes this set up as another separation from regular supporters? Their main concern are the american owners. And how bad they are for the club. We all know that the americans have got us into debt, and none of us are happy about it. But this set up is just another separation amongst the supporters more than anything. Yes SOS have an open invitation to their set up but not everybody agrees with the way they go about things. A big match coming up against Arsenal. Where do their priorities lie? Thinking up ways to lift their club at a period of low morale, a disastrous season that needs saving through ways the crowd can make the players proud to play for the shirt? or to show their constant gripe against the owners. During the match you heard chants about the yanks, where was the supporting chants for the players? Where was the passion to lift the team?
And this is where we are failing, many who are dead set against the yanks would see this club fail in the hope to see them ousted from the club. In that case they must be having the time of their life this season, it can only be a matter of time before the owners leave. The constant "Sack Rafa" threads, to me, show that their are far too many supporters who care to much about the club to allow us to decline into nothingness, not even a has been.
The attitude towards rafa has many supporters divided. I can hazard a fair guess that if you agree with SOS you generally dont want rafa sacked. The blame is firmly placed at the feet of the owners. And any argument against rafa is an argument against the SOS and therefore make you an infidel. This isnt so.
We all have to agree as to what is at stake here. The club. Liverpool Football Club. The spine has always been the supporters, and this is broken. It needs to be mended, and only we, as supporters, can fix it from our side. As long as Rafa is manager, we need to support him. Success or failure will determine his future. The board are here to stay, the protest marches and chants are not helping the club at all. The yanks turn a blind eye to it, the SOS are having an effect, but its not in a positive way. All they are doing is bringing in more negative vibes. We all have differing views on the club but the one thing we can all agree on is this, the club comes first. If the yanks stay or go, if rafa stays or goes the fact is, the club is what matters. Its time to get the supporters back on track and go from there.
Supporters
Well as supporters we have to get our own house in order. How many times have we heard booing at Anfield these last couple of seasons at either subsitutions, players performance or just our general play. Booing doesnt help anybody. It lowers confidence and makes the situation so much worse.
Just because you were born in Liverpool it doesnt make you more of a passionate supporter. Lately this seems to be separating the support for the club. Being born in Liverpool doesnt instantly class you as the top level supporter, the kind of supporter in which we all should aspire to. It means you were born in a city closer to the club reducing your fair to get to the ground. And many people from Liverpool tend to travel, born in Liverpool yes, but its rare that many people stay their.
The crowd, when things are going well are one of the best in the world, and this consists of OOters and locals. When things are going well, their is no questionable doubt, the support, wherever each individual comes from is the best in the world. When things are not going so well, the division appears and the blame is passed.
Spirit of Shankly. Is it just me who classes this set up as another separation from regular supporters? Their main concern are the american owners. And how bad they are for the club. We all know that the americans have got us into debt, and none of us are happy about it. But this set up is just another separation amongst the supporters more than anything. Yes SOS have an open invitation to their set up but not everybody agrees with the way they go about things. A big match coming up against Arsenal. Where do their priorities lie? Thinking up ways to lift their club at a period of low morale, a disastrous season that needs saving through ways the crowd can make the players proud to play for the shirt? or to show their constant gripe against the owners. During the match you heard chants about the yanks, where was the supporting chants for the players? Where was the passion to lift the team?
And this is where we are failing, many who are dead set against the yanks would see this club fail in the hope to see them ousted from the club. In that case they must be having the time of their life this season, it can only be a matter of time before the owners leave. The constant "Sack Rafa" threads, to me, show that their are far too many supporters who care to much about the club to allow us to decline into nothingness, not even a has been.
The attitude towards rafa has many supporters divided. I can hazard a fair guess that if you agree with SOS you generally dont want rafa sacked. The blame is firmly placed at the feet of the owners. And any argument against rafa is an argument against the SOS and therefore make you an infidel. This isnt so.
We all have to agree as to what is at stake here. The club. Liverpool Football Club. The spine has always been the supporters, and this is broken. It needs to be mended, and only we, as supporters, can fix it from our side. As long as Rafa is manager, we need to support him. Success or failure will determine his future. The board are here to stay, the protest marches and chants are not helping the club at all. The yanks turn a blind eye to it, the SOS are having an effect, but its not in a positive way. All they are doing is bringing in more negative vibes. We all have differing views on the club but the one thing we can all agree on is this, the club comes first. If the yanks stay or go, if rafa stays or goes the fact is, the club is what matters. Its time to get the supporters back on track and go from there.
Last edited by Kharhaz on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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by bigmick » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:22 am
We could start by sitting up the video room at Melwood and watching a Birmingham or a Villa match, preferably Birmingham. Why? because IMHO they would be top of the "outperforming your potential" league, Villa would be second and probably Fulham third. We'd be bottom by a mile IMHO, and it wouldn't do us any harm to see how the other half live, and how they manage it.
I watched Birminham today beat Blackburn, it was their fifth win on the bounce in the Premiership and took them three points clear of us. They've got a decent keeper who's on loan from Man City. They've got two good young centre halves with something to prove. Roger Johnson who I like a lot they got off of Cardiff City for 5 million quid, and Scott Dann they got for 4 mill off Coventry. Both these lads are English centre halves, they attack corners and free kicks all day long, and as a result they have a solidity about them. Birmingham have played a match more than us, and have conceded four goals less in the premiership. Full backs are Steven Carr who was free, and Liam Ridgewell who is actually a centre half but can't get in past the other two, they paid 2 million quid for him. As a defensive unit they are solid, they graft, they tackle, they cover, they attack it, they head it, they get their bodies in the way and the keeper doesn't feck it up. In short they defend properly.
In midfield, they've got an interesting balance. From central midfield, Lee Bowyer has scored five times in the league for them this season. He does box to box all day, scraps and bites and gets his foot in. They picked him up from West Ham on a free. Alongside him, they've got Barry Ferguson who does the holding and giving job. He's been a good player in his time, but these days relies on his experience to fill the holes. He doesn't score much, and is essentially a paupers Xabi Alonso. They got him off Rangers for 1.2 million quid. Down the left they've got James McFadden who I must confess I think they overpaid for off Everton at 5 million quid. That said, he's been injured this season and has a couple of league goals from 8 appearances. On the right of midfield they've got Sebastian Larrson who they bought off Arsenal for 1 million. He's a tidy footballer who is a decent dead ball taker. This season he's scored three times in fifteen matches. All in all in midfield they have wide midfielders not wingers who play quite compact. They work for each other and Feguson sits. They've got a good balance in the middle, and there's goals there from Bowyer.
Up top they've got cameron Jerome who they bought off Cardiff City for 4 million quid. He's big and raw, and has three goals from ten matches. He works the channels hard and has a bit of pace about him as well as being quite physical. They've also got Christien Benitez who they signed off Santos Lugana for 6 million quid. He's the trickster, and has 2 golas in the league so far.
I make it that the whole team cost 28.2 million quid. While Benitez is setting up the chairs for the players, he could do a lot worse than put one out for himself as well. He should watch how they defend set-pieces properly, how they work for the right to play. He should see the effort which goes into their performces, the collective desire and the overriding team ethic. He could consider the balance that is inherent throughout the team, enabling them to punch massively over and above their weight as a bunch of players. He could look at the smiles on the faces of the players, the belief they have in each other, the collective spirit. My suspicion is that they don't have scientists in the back room team telling the manager who to pick and who not to, they have a bloke who speaks with the players and asks them how they are feeling.
We'll finish above Birmingham because I suspect beyond these elven players they haven't got much else. We'll also finish above them because we are far better than we are currently showing. We will only need to get ourselves into mid table in the "playing above yourself" league to finish well ahead of them. That we are currently behind them though is a massive filip for them, and an absolute disgrace as far as we are concerned. Tactical genius? Don't make me laugh.
I watched Birminham today beat Blackburn, it was their fifth win on the bounce in the Premiership and took them three points clear of us. They've got a decent keeper who's on loan from Man City. They've got two good young centre halves with something to prove. Roger Johnson who I like a lot they got off of Cardiff City for 5 million quid, and Scott Dann they got for 4 mill off Coventry. Both these lads are English centre halves, they attack corners and free kicks all day long, and as a result they have a solidity about them. Birmingham have played a match more than us, and have conceded four goals less in the premiership. Full backs are Steven Carr who was free, and Liam Ridgewell who is actually a centre half but can't get in past the other two, they paid 2 million quid for him. As a defensive unit they are solid, they graft, they tackle, they cover, they attack it, they head it, they get their bodies in the way and the keeper doesn't feck it up. In short they defend properly.
In midfield, they've got an interesting balance. From central midfield, Lee Bowyer has scored five times in the league for them this season. He does box to box all day, scraps and bites and gets his foot in. They picked him up from West Ham on a free. Alongside him, they've got Barry Ferguson who does the holding and giving job. He's been a good player in his time, but these days relies on his experience to fill the holes. He doesn't score much, and is essentially a paupers Xabi Alonso. They got him off Rangers for 1.2 million quid. Down the left they've got James McFadden who I must confess I think they overpaid for off Everton at 5 million quid. That said, he's been injured this season and has a couple of league goals from 8 appearances. On the right of midfield they've got Sebastian Larrson who they bought off Arsenal for 1 million. He's a tidy footballer who is a decent dead ball taker. This season he's scored three times in fifteen matches. All in all in midfield they have wide midfielders not wingers who play quite compact. They work for each other and Feguson sits. They've got a good balance in the middle, and there's goals there from Bowyer.
Up top they've got cameron Jerome who they bought off Cardiff City for 4 million quid. He's big and raw, and has three goals from ten matches. He works the channels hard and has a bit of pace about him as well as being quite physical. They've also got Christien Benitez who they signed off Santos Lugana for 6 million quid. He's the trickster, and has 2 golas in the league so far.
I make it that the whole team cost 28.2 million quid. While Benitez is setting up the chairs for the players, he could do a lot worse than put one out for himself as well. He should watch how they defend set-pieces properly, how they work for the right to play. He should see the effort which goes into their performces, the collective desire and the overriding team ethic. He could consider the balance that is inherent throughout the team, enabling them to punch massively over and above their weight as a bunch of players. He could look at the smiles on the faces of the players, the belief they have in each other, the collective spirit. My suspicion is that they don't have scientists in the back room team telling the manager who to pick and who not to, they have a bloke who speaks with the players and asks them how they are feeling.
We'll finish above Birmingham because I suspect beyond these elven players they haven't got much else. We'll also finish above them because we are far better than we are currently showing. We will only need to get ourselves into mid table in the "playing above yourself" league to finish well ahead of them. That we are currently behind them though is a massive filip for them, and an absolute disgrace as far as we are concerned. Tactical genius? Don't make me laugh.
"se e in una bottigla ed e bianco, e latte".
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by Penguins » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:14 am
That's what Villa was doing for a while, playing a cb as a fullback. I really think our defensive unit would benefit from seeing Agger, Skrtel and Carra playing at the same time. Either Agger out left or Carra out right. And I am really a fan of Johnson, you can see he got qualities, but our backline can't handle such a fullback which is why I see it as a logic choice to move Johnson up to rw. This takes care of another thing at the same time, getting Kuyt away from the starting 11. I have said enough about him for 3 years.
And this is without mentioning the fact Insua is just not ready yet for a starting 11 place. He is a defensive liability no matter how you slice and dice it.
And this is without mentioning the fact Insua is just not ready yet for a starting 11 place. He is a defensive liability no matter how you slice and dice it.
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by roberto green » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:36 am
redbeergoggles wrote:I think its time to integrate Johnson's pace as a winger into the team ,Riera simply has to play ,and I would concur about Pacheco starting, but I would play him just behind Torres to provide the invention the Reds are currently lacking ,that would leave Aquilani to play in centre mid along with Mascherano and here's the surprise I would play Gerrard at right back ,albeit until he finds his form ,Agger and Carragher in the back four along with Aurelio .. I believe once we find the right stability at the back the rest will fall into place ,and Gerrard would provide this .
Totally agree.Well done.
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by dawson99 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:47 am
someones gotta tell Stevie to act like a captain, and to stop rolling all voer the floor at every opportunity. I love the guy but hes started play acting a bit too much lately.
He's gotta dust himself off, and lead this team
He's gotta dust himself off, and lead this team
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by lakes10 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:14 am
Kharhaz wrote:What can we do?
Supporters
Well as supporters we have to get our own house in order. How many times have we heard booing at Anfield these last couple of seasons at either subsitutions, players performance or just our general play. Booing doesnt help anybody. It lowers confidence and makes the situation so much worse.
Just because you were born in Liverpool it doesnt make you more of a passionate supporter. Lately this seems to be separating the support for the club. Being born in Liverpool doesnt instantly class you as the top level supporter, the kind of supporter in which we all should aspire to. It means you were born in a city closer to the club reducing your fair to get to the ground. And many people from Liverpool tend to travel, born in Liverpool yes, but its rare that many people stay their.
The crowd, when things are going well are one of the best in the world, and this consists of OOters and locals. When things are going well, their is no questionable doubt, the support, wherever each individual comes from is the best in the world. When things are not going so well, the division appears and the blame is passed.
Spirit of Shankly. Is it just me who classes this set up as another separation from regular supporters? Their main concern are the american owners. And how bad they are for the club. We all know that the americans have got us into debt, and none of us are happy about it. But this set up is just another separation amongst the supporters more than anything. Yes SOS have an open invitation to their set up but not everybody agrees with the way they go about things. A big match coming up against Arsenal. Where do their priorities lie? Thinking up ways to lift their club at a period of low morale, a disastrous season that needs saving through ways the crowd can make the players proud to play for the shirt? or to show their constant gripe against the owners. During the match you heard chants about the yanks, where was the supporting chants for the players? Where was the passion to lift the team?
And this is where we are failing, many who are dead set against the yanks would see this club fail in the hope to see them ousted from the club. In that case they must be having the time of their life this season, it can only be a matter of time before the owners leave. The constant "Sack Rafa" threads, to me, show that their are far too many supporters who care to much about the club to allow us to decline into nothingness, not even a has been.
The attitude towards rafa has many supporters divided. I can hazard a fair guess that if you agree with SOS you generally dont want rafa sacked. The blame is firmly placed at the feet of the owners. And any argument against rafa is an argument against the SOS and therefore make you an infidel. This isnt so.
We all have to agree as to what is at stake here. The club. Liverpool Football Club. The spine has always been the supporters, and this is broken. It needs to be mended, and only we, as supporters, can fix it from our side. As long as Rafa is manager, we need to support him. Success or failure will determine his future. The board are here to stay, the protest marches and chants are not helping the club at all. The yanks turn a blind eye to it, the SOS are having an effect, but its not in a positive way. All they are doing is bringing in more negative vibes. We all have differing views on the club but the one thing we can all agree on is this, the club comes first. If the yanks stay or go, if rafa stays or goes the fact is, the club is what matters. Its time to get the supporters back on track and go from there.
What a great post.
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by Sir Roger » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:10 pm
Rafa needs to change immediately
Its not because we havent got the players to win a game. We havent got the confidence, team spirit or the passion.
We are confined, constricted and stifled.
If he can he needs to loosen the players up so they go and play attacking football which gives them pleasure. So far this has only happened against the skanks. Gerrard, Benayoun, Kuyt and Johnson have all took a dip in form at the same time. I never thought Id be saying this but Lucas is one of the most consistent players we have. He has not got worse and is putting a shift in every time. Rafa needs to lighten the mood and get the players enjoying the games before its too late...
Its not because we havent got the players to win a game. We havent got the confidence, team spirit or the passion.
We are confined, constricted and stifled.
If he can he needs to loosen the players up so they go and play attacking football which gives them pleasure. So far this has only happened against the skanks. Gerrard, Benayoun, Kuyt and Johnson have all took a dip in form at the same time. I never thought Id be saying this but Lucas is one of the most consistent players we have. He has not got worse and is putting a shift in every time. Rafa needs to lighten the mood and get the players enjoying the games before its too late...
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by shanklygates » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:24 pm
Well as supporters we have to get our own house in order. How many times have we heard booing at Anfield these last couple of seasons at either subsitutions, players performance or just our general play. Booing doesnt help anybody. It lowers confidence and makes the situation so much worse.
-------------------------------------------------------
tbh i think the booing is justified., players earn in a week what it takes 5 or 6 years for some to earn. they are pampered and fans pay upto £45 to watch a game, and then they give performances like they have been, some dont deserve to wear the red of liverpool, and they should be able to handle the booing.
-------------------------------------------------------
tbh i think the booing is justified., players earn in a week what it takes 5 or 6 years for some to earn. they are pampered and fans pay upto £45 to watch a game, and then they give performances like they have been, some dont deserve to wear the red of liverpool, and they should be able to handle the booing.
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by Sir Roger » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:31 pm
shanklygates wrote:Well as supporters we have to get our own house in order. How many times have we heard booing at Anfield these last couple of seasons at either subsitutions, players performance or just our general play. Booing doesnt help anybody. It lowers confidence and makes the situation so much worse.
-------------------------------------------------------
tbh i think the booing is justified., players earn in a week what it takes 5 or 6 years for some to earn. they are pampered and fans pay upto £45 to watch a game, and then they give performances like they have been, some dont deserve to wear the red of liverpool, and they should be able to handle the booing.
Anyone who boos is a shi'thouse full stop!
If you dont like the team that much fu'ck off and dont come back!!
A supporter does not boo their own team
Especially a Liverpool supporter. We are unique. Special. The best.
Leave the booing to other cun'ts who havent got a clue.
Seriously, if someone next to you is booing tell them to shut it or fu'ck off.
I have
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by shanklygates » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:42 pm
if fans dont boo how else are they expected to make their feelings known?.
"Especially a Liverpool supporter. We are unique. Special. The best"
blah blah blah.
given the fact we were one of the favourites this year, this season has been nothing short of shambolic, and just because someone may boo it doesnt make them any less of a supporter than you, so you fook off, it just means they are not happy with whats happening on the pitch, as they sit there in the freezing cold expecting their team to turn over teams who would we should be beating, especially at anfield.
"Especially a Liverpool supporter. We are unique. Special. The best"
blah blah blah.
given the fact we were one of the favourites this year, this season has been nothing short of shambolic, and just because someone may boo it doesnt make them any less of a supporter than you, so you fook off, it just means they are not happy with whats happening on the pitch, as they sit there in the freezing cold expecting their team to turn over teams who would we should be beating, especially at anfield.
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