Liverpool FC Forum

by **tonyeh** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:37 am

Emerald Red wrote:
bavlondon wrote:I think we are too far gone to reverse the situation now. We should spend more money on finding other planets to support life or colonization in space.

Na, f*ck that. Just spend more money on making booze so that we're all too sh*tfaced to give a f*ck. Far better solution.

Ah...the Irish solution.

by **Judge** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:27 am

tonyeh wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:I don't see why people are so convinced that if it warms up a bit, that would be a bad thing. If there is one thing people should have learned from studying climate is that there is no set normal Earth temperature, and that its going to change whether we like it or not. All the species alive today have ancestors that have survived and adapted to both a colder and warmer earth that we see today

"Global warming" is a mis-nomer. That's why the phrase "climate change" is being used more often. It isn't that the temp is simply going to go up a little bit, it's that the weather patterns are going to get chaotic and very unpredictable leading to extreme conditions.

If it was all just about a little heat, there wouldn't be such a fuss.

tonyeh you need to read my posts.

weather conditions are changing directly as a result of atmospheric changes in the levels of CO2. The earth has been doing that for millennia. man has a little influence on that, but its inevitable that we will see another ice age, probably within the next 1000 years or so.

this subject i find quite interesting and i do alot of reading around it. so i know some info.

there maybe others who know more on here, but ive yet to see any of them yet in this thread

by **tubby** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:34 pm

Was reading something in The Times this morning about Al Gore and some doctor whos 'theories' he was basing a lot of his work on. Apparantely the doctor has turned around and said I made no such calcluations ect... I think the figures were taken from a casual meeting. Will try and find the online article but I think there is a lot of massaging of data going on here to back theories.

by **Judge** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:04 pm

bavlondon wrote:and said I made no such calcluations

they asked you ? :laugh:

by **tubby** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:15 pm

Judge wrote:
bavlondon wrote:and said I made no such calcluations

they asked you ?

by **tonyeh** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:36 pm

Judge wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:I don't see why people are so convinced that if it warms up a bit, that would be a bad thing. If there is one thing people should have learned from studying climate is that there is no set normal Earth temperature, and that its going to change whether we like it or not. All the species alive today have ancestors that have survived and adapted to both a colder and warmer earth that we see today

"Global warming" is a mis-nomer. That's why the phrase "climate change" is being used more often. It isn't that the temp is simply going to go up a little bit, it's that the weather patterns are going to get chaotic and very unpredictable leading to extreme conditions.

If it was all just about a little heat, there wouldn't be such a fuss.

tonyeh you need to read my posts.

You MUST be joking....

by **Judge** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:14 pm

well actually mate, i know this sort of stuff

its a little bit more complicated than you make out...so you must be joking

by **dawson99** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:18 pm

well f*ck it, i'll be dead in 50 years, so wheres the biggy?

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:46 pm

If it means the world heats up then im all for it as its just started snowing here and its bloody freezing .

by **Big Niall** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:47 pm

The climate has always changed - see Ice age. So Climate chagne is normal and probably serves some purpose we don't know (wheter you're in the science or God corner).

It also appears that some data has been withheld to make the case for it stronger.

Even the people who don't believe it should support the west using new green energies so we aren't relying on oil from the middle east, which creates instability and war.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:09 pm

Big Niall wrote:Even the people who don't believe it should support the west using new green energies so we aren't relying on oil from the middle east, which creates instability and war.

just as long as the market decides and not the government dicating what will be the green energy of choice for the world. Its more likely that debate would get settled by which side can afford to higher the most/best lobbyists than which actually has the best science behind it

don't know what your talking about with the middle east oil causing war. Why would we want to go to war with a country that sells us oil? why would a country that sells us oil want to go to war with us?

link

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:29 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
Big Niall wrote:Even the people who don't believe it should support the west using new green energies so we aren't relying on oil from the middle east, which creates instability and war.

just as long as the market decides and not the government dicating what will be the green energy of choice for the world. Its more likely that debate would get settled by which side can afford to higher the most/best lobbyists than which actually has the best science behind it

don't know what your talking about with the middle east oil causing war. Why would we want to go to war with a country that sells us oil? why would a country that sells us oil want to go to war with us?

link

In a nutshell for you Joe...

Oil in the Middle East = strong Western presence

Strong Western presence = disgruntled Islamist fundamentalists

Disgruntled Islamist fundamentalists = acts of terror

Acts of terror = war in the Middle East

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:35 pm

while I would not argue that there isn't oil in the middle east nor that there isn't a strong western presence, how exactly is it that one determines or causes the other? Do you mean comercially or militarily?

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:20 pm

JoeTerp wrote:while I would not argue that there isn't oil in the middle east nor that there isn't a strong western presence, how exactly is it that one determines or causes the other? Do you mean comercially or militarily?

The economic and strategic importance of the Middle East oil supply has meant that the U.S. and other Western nations have a vested interest in maintaining those supply lines, through a military presence if necessary. This very presence has enraged Islamist groups such as Al-Qa'ida, who see the West as corrupt and decadent and who denounce the presence of Western corporations and military assets in Islamic nations in general and in the key Islamic holy land of Saudi Arabia in particular. In fact, the willingness of particular Arab countries to do business with the U.S. and its allies has been a major bone of contention for these radical groups, who would prefer to see a unified Arab world take a hardline against the Western 'interlopers'. As a result, Al-Qa'ida and their ilk have dedicated themselves to driving the U.S. and its allies from the Middle East--through attacks on their interests in the Middle East as well as through acts of terror in their homelands. Predictably, the West has responded with a greater military presence, which the radical Islamists can use to stoke the fires of resentment within the occupied countries, escalating conflict and prolonging war. So, I think Niall has a point: as long as Middle Eastern oil is essential to the West, costly wars will need to be waged to ensure it continues to flow westward.

(Incidentally, just so we don't oversimplify the story and say that's all about oil, radical Islamist groups are also none to pleased with the West's continued support of Israel and even some of our moderate Middle Eastern allies are vexed by that issue.)

by **tubby** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:24 pm

This planet has shown time and time again that it can come back from anything. And it will do so long after we have gone, or even long after this civilisaiton has been wiped out. :;):

So relax and enjoy the sun. :cool:

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