Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:48 pm

Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher has called on the side to show some character to bounce back from their latest setback.

The Reds slumped to their sixth defeat in the Premier League after going down 2-1 against Arsenal at Anfield on Sunday.

The latest loss leaves Liverpool in seventh spot, five points behind fourth-placed Aston Villa in the race to finish in the top four.

Carragher admits the Arsenal defeat was hard to take and concedes the Reds should be doing better than they are at present.

"We started off well in the first half and should have had a penalty but you have to give credit to Arsenal, they're a top side," Carragher told the club's official website.

"The manner of the goals we conceded were unfortunate but other than them scoring, I can't remember them having too much else, which is why it is so hard to take.

"We've just got to dust ourselves down now and move to Wednesday. For the quality of the players and the stature of the club, we should be doing better.

"Statistics can change quickly and we have got to do that. It's tough at the moment but part of playing for Liverpool is having big character.

"That's what we need now. Between now and May it is going to be a grind at times but we have got to stick together, get through it and, as I'm doing, pray to God that at the end of the season there will be something worthwhile for what we've gone through."

Carragher admits Wednesday's game at home to Wigan is a must-win encounter if they are to get their campaign back on track and he knows the team need to start improving quickly.

"We can't look for excuses," added Carragher. "That's the way it is at top-level football - we know that any little thing can get pounced upon and that's happening at the moment.

"Wigan is a massive game for us. I've tried too many times down the years trying to work things out, so there's no point looking further ahead than that.

"We'll just try and get three points on Wednesday and then move on to Portsmouth. We've got to look at ourselves and realise that we've got to do much better.

"There's still some lads who aren't 100 per cent fit yet, so there'll be improvement to come but we need to get this team playing regularly."

by **Scottbot** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:50 pm

s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Whoa calm down there - im looking at this realistically - i didnt say no one would come - i suspect some managers would want to manage us - in fact i expect world class managers would want to manager us BUT and its a big but people ignore would they come and manage us in the current financial situation we are in - most of those managers are sitting pretty at big clubs with backing from their current owners .

Where did i ever say we were second rate - lets not be putting words into my mouth - i think we are the greatest club in the world and want the best BUT would the best look at the situation the same as me and you - what is the lure to them bar it being liverpool ? The club is in debt and any profit goes to pay off loan interest (without even touching the debt ) a small budget available(if their is one) which needs to be topped up by selling players .

We have great players, great fans, a great history and the prospect of a great future. Who wouldn't want to be part of that?

Most managers can only fecking dream of the backing that Rafa has had in his time here. We have spent more than the mancs and Arsenal , we have give him free reign to bring in who he wanted as backroom staff, total control of the club and a six years.

So don't fecking start about what a fecking hard time he has had.

Managers at top clubs don't usually get rewarded with five year contracts FOR FAILING TO WIN ANYTHING for three years mate.

Agree whole-heartedly with this. The idea that there are a bunch of managers out there who wouldn't want the Liverpool job (should it become available) keeps kicking kicked about here but it's a ridiculous notion. It's one of the biggest jobs in world football and I don't imagine there are many managers out there that would turn it down regardless of any perceptions they have about the current state of the club.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:52 pm

Masch was world class before he came, I wanted him for at least a year before we signed him.Just because WestHam couldn't afford to play him doesn't change that mate. Torres I didn't know much about but everyone seemed to want him. We were a little surprised on here because we were told he wouldn't score many! Gerrard was world class before Rafa came.

I could make a list of ALL the players that have failed but whats the point ? You either believe the manager jhas got the best out of the players and we are just not good enough or you believe the players are good enough and the manager hasn't got the best out of them. I BELIEVE IN THE PLAYERS.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:52 pm

Those perceptions are part of the real world now scott unfortunatly . Im sorry but i dont think it is a ridiculous notion anymore in this money driven world .

by **Scottbot** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:55 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Great History - sorry that means nothing to most managers .

Completely disagree, How have you ended up at that conclusion? Are you saying that being the most successful club in Britain, the 3rd most successful in European football, having one of the most famous stadiums in world football, and the general consensus that we have the best fans in the world would not appeal to just about every half-decent manager out there?

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:56 pm

s@int wrote:Masch was world class before he came, I wanted him for at least a year before we signed him.Just because WestHam couldn't afford to play him doesn't change that mate. Torres I didn't know much about but everyone seemed to want him. We were a little surprised on here because we were told he wouldn't score many! Gerrard was world class before Rafa came.

I could make a list of ALL the players that have failed but whats the point ? You either believe the manager jhas got the best out of the players and we are just not good enough or you believe the players are good enough and the manager hasn't got the best out of them. I BELIEVE IN THE PLAYERS.

And i beleive its a team game where the players and managers gett the blame equally if its not going well and get the credit and plaudits if its going well , for me currently the players are all way below form - no one stands out and they as a team need to go to the levels we have seen them play too before and the levels we know they can play too - that comes down to knuckling down and fighting - thats the responsibility of both the players and the managers . Once they cross that line and the first whistle goes its 95% in the hands of the players and they need to take responsibilty of the game - more so the senior players - masher , gerrard , carra to name three who have been poor this season .

Both the players and manager are not performing as well as they can and they . need to change that

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:00 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Great History - sorry that means nothing to most managers .

Completely disagree, How have you ended up at that conclusion? Are you saying that being the most successful club in Britain, the 3rd most successful in European football, having one of the most famous stadiums in world football, and the general consensus that we have the best fans in the world would not appeal to just about every half-decent manager out there?

I have ended with the conclusion on the fact we live in a money driven real world and the romance of the whole thing is wonderful and i love the fact that i believe we are the greatest club around and always will be - BUT managers out there dont see that (unless they are connected with the club ) and are more whats in the current situation and are results and money driven as opposed to the romance and theatre of it .

We as fans will always believe we are the greatest and will always be proud of our history and rightly so - we earnt it and deserve it but i dont believe there is many managers out there is look at it the way the fans do .

by **Scottbot** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:03 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:And i beleive its a team game where the players and managers gett the blame equally if its not going well and get the credit and plaudits if its going well

That might be your belief mate but it simply isn't the way it is. The buck stops with the manager, it always has and always will. You only have to look at Chelsea last season, they were poor under Scholari, sure you can blame the players as much as the manager but those same players were absolutely fantastic under Hiddink for the 2nd half of the season. It ALWAYS comes back to the manager, it's just the nature of the beast. The pundits see it that way, i'm certain most fans do and you can bet every single owner out there does too.

by **bigmick** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:03 pm

The only managers who would turn down the job are those who have a cushier number already. Now given Rafa is in his sixth season at the club, the last four of which are likely to be trophyless, and given he has had more money to spend than either Manchester United or Arsenal or indeed anyone in the league other than marginally Chelsea and Man City, and given he has complete control over everything at the club, there can't be many cushier.

I suspect we wouldn't get Wenger because he is wedded to his arsenal project and presumeably has a job for life. We wouldn't get Ferguson for a number of reasons and obviously wouldn't have him anyway. Mid season we arguably wouldn't get the likes of Mourinho as he is top of the Italian League again (5 points clear) and qualified for the knockouts of the Champions League again despite being in Barcelona's group.

At the end of the season though, if he's not already pledged somewhere else then I think we'd get him. We'd probably have a good go at the likes of Martin O Neil, Lippi, Mancini, Hiddink.

As I've said many times, "believers" have modest ambitions. Not only do they they think the pinnacle of our possibilities is a top four finish and no trophies, they think that nobody decent would want to be our manager either. Thank goodness I'm negative and think we ought to be able to challenge for the title and win occasional trophies, and think that any decent manager would give his right arm to manage one of the biggest clubs in the World in the best league in the World. I even think we really ought to be able to win more than three games in fifteen, almost regardless of who is the manager. Yep that's me, negative to the end.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:05 pm

Oh i have no doubt about that scott - someone will always look for a fall guy - someone to blame - and its always the manager and imo i think thats wrong - when i look at the games i have seen this season i see the players failing a hell of a lot and they shouldnt be immune to the critism and it shouldnt be lumped all on rafas feet . Those same players and manager (bar xabi) got us to second last season within a couple of points of winning the thing so they know they can do and they know the manager can do it so they gotta to start showing it agaiin .

by **lakes10** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:07 pm

Well the press room are now linking Liverpool with Guus Hiddink, they seem to think he is about to step down as the Russian manager, this will clear the way to become the Liverpool manager.

I dont know where their info is coming from but as its not being reported yet on the tv then i yake it they are still looking into it.

by **Scottbot** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:09 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Great History - sorry that means nothing to most managers .

Completely disagree, How have you ended up at that conclusion? Are you saying that being the most successful club in Britain, the 3rd most successful in European football, having one of the most famous stadiums in world football, and the general consensus that we have the best fans in the world would not appeal to just about every half-decent manager out there?

I have ended with the conclusion on the fact we live in a money driven real world and the romance of the whole thing is wonderful and i love the fact that i believe we are the greatest club around and always will be - BUT managers out there dont see that (unless they are connected with the club ) and are more whats in the current situation and are results and money driven as opposed to the romance and theatre of it .

We as fans will always believe we are the greatest and will always be proud of our history and rightly so - we earnt it and deserve it but i dont believe there is many managers out there is look at it the way the fans do .

Well that's your opinion mate but it's not actually based on anything remotely solid, just a notion that it's all about the money and little else. There is still plenty of romance in football as far as I am concerned, Kaka would be a Man City player right now if that wasn't the case. Most managers had careers as players, most managers grew up witnessing some fantastic nights in the history of Liverpool FC and most managers (at some stage) were simply football fans. It might be all about the money from an ownership perspective but I can guarantee there are a number of top managers out there who would love a crack at this job (should it ever come up). Anyone who paints a picture that we would be lacking for quality applicants (or interest) is a bit crazy in my book.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:09 pm

Any chance of posting without all the sarcasim ? maybe then people might look at your post a bit more credible ? If you just posted what you think without the sly digs towards what people think and opinions then maybe you might get a little less hassle from some people . No one else is having pops at people just having a decent debate without the pops .

As for the middle parts of your post .

Lippi mancini and o neil are all good shouts - Lippis record for both club and country is superb and not sure what he is doing currently , Mancini 's only crime for inter was not winning the CL but succeded at Inter in the league and O Neill has done relatively well at every club he has been at and would all be decent choices .

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:12 pm

Scottbot wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Great History - sorry that means nothing to most managers .

Completely disagree, How have you ended up at that conclusion? Are you saying that being the most successful club in Britain, the 3rd most successful in European football, having one of the most famous stadiums in world football, and the general consensus that we have the best fans in the world would not appeal to just about every half-decent manager out there?

I have ended with the conclusion on the fact we live in a money driven real world and the romance of the whole thing is wonderful and i love the fact that i believe we are the greatest club around and always will be - BUT managers out there dont see that (unless they are connected with the club ) and are more whats in the current situation and are results and money driven as opposed to the romance and theatre of it .

We as fans will always believe we are the greatest and will always be proud of our history and rightly so - we earnt it and deserve it but i dont believe there is many managers out there is look at it the way the fans do .

Well that's your opinion mate but it's not actually based on anything remotely solid, just a notion that it's all about the money and little else. There is still plenty of romance in football as far as I am concerned, Kaka would be a Man City player right now if that wasn't the case. Most managers had careers as players, most managers grew up witnessing some fantastic nights in the history of Liverpool FC and most managers (at some stage) were simply football fans. It might be all about the money from an ownership perspective but I can guarantee there are a number of top managers out there who would love a crack at this job (should it ever come up). Anyone who paints a picture that we would be lacking for quality applicants (or interest) is a bit crazy in my book.

Well i hope we never find out mate as i believe in Rafa and think he will turn it around for us .

Your thinking is great and i wish it was like that - pure and simple and only about football .

Yes Kaka is banded aboout a lot then you look at Robinho and Tevez - turned down greater clubs for the dosh .

The one sticking point with us - is the owners of the club .

by **Scottbot** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:13 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Oh i have no doubt about that scott - someone will always look for a fall guy - someone to blame - and its always the manager and imo i think thats wrong - when i look at the games i have seen this season i see the players failing a hell of a lot and they shouldnt be immune to the critism and it shouldnt be lumped all on rafas feet . Those same players and manager (bar xabi) got us to second last season within a couple of points of winning the thing so they know they can do and they know the manager can do it so they gotta to start showing it agaiin .

But that's football, of course the manager is the fall guy, always has been, and always will be.

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