If Rafa does go (not saying i want him to go) then i would want an experience world class manager in charge of the club - now kenny is a legend and will always be a legend but hasnt managed a club for nearly ten years - what would some fans do if Kenny didnt get results ? would they turn their annoyance towards him and would he be the subject of their abuse ? Fans are fickle (not pointing any fingers to anyone on here) and if kenny did come in and things didnt go well for him then he would be subjected to the sort of cr.ap rafa is presently from media ,ex players, and fans . Kenny doesnt ever deserve that and i dont think for once he would even put himself into that situation - the lad has suffered enough with the club and as much as he loves the club i for one dont want to see him manage it .
Who would come in is a totally different subject -
their is numrous managers out there of the standard that would be good enough for our club
Maureen
Wenger
Lippi
Hiddink
Capello etc to name a few then other risky ones like
O Neill
Riijkaard
Mancini
But when you look at realistcally which of them would step up to the plate knowing the situation the club finds itself in with the owners and financially . Look at where they are now - all sitting pretty at clubs doing very well or nations and backed by their respective owners . Now if we had different owners then i think the lure of managing the greatest club in the world would be enough but that lure for me has dwindled a lot .
then off course we have someone like Klinsmann who prob would take over if asked but only have to look at his record in a league where one team stands out and his managed that team and failed badly - would anyone want him as manager ? not in a million years for me
So i understand why some want the manager to go but is the grass greeners on the other side (yes the grass isnt pretty on this side at the moment ) and sometimes its better the devil you know .
Sack him. if you want the manager sacked - ...put your thoughts in here.
by account deleted by request » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:37 pm
FFS give it a fecking rest about no one would want to come. We are better placed than when Souness left (just) and we had no trouble getting a manager. We are LIVERPOOL ..... most managers would give their right arm to manage us.
If you think we are second rate, its no wonder you support a manager who is getting second rate results, hasn't won anything for 3 years and has spent a fortune to get us sat in 7th place!
If you think we are second rate, its no wonder you support a manager who is getting second rate results, hasn't won anything for 3 years and has spent a fortune to get us sat in 7th place!
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:45 pm
Whoa calm down there - im looking at this realistically - i didnt say no one would come - i suspect some managers would want to manage us - in fact i expect world class managers would want to manager us BUT and its a big but people ignore would they come and manage us in the current financial situation we are in - most of those managers are sitting pretty at big clubs with backing from their current owners .
Where did i ever say we were second rate - lets not be putting words into my mouth - i think we are the greatest club in the world and want the best BUT would the best look at the situation the same as me and you - what is the lure to them bar it being liverpool ? The club is in debt and any profit goes to pay off loan interest (without even touching the debt ) a small budget available(if their is one) which needs to be topped up by selling players .
Where did i ever say we were second rate - lets not be putting words into my mouth - i think we are the greatest club in the world and want the best BUT would the best look at the situation the same as me and you - what is the lure to them bar it being liverpool ? The club is in debt and any profit goes to pay off loan interest (without even touching the debt ) a small budget available(if their is one) which needs to be topped up by selling players .
- Benny The Noon
by Benny The Noon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:48 pm
Rafa Benitez has revealed that playing a part in helping to reduce Liverpool's debt burden was one of the most important issues he had to manage over the summer.
Liverpool's financial situation has been cited as a reason for the team's lacklustre first half to this season, with Benitez not given the funds to strengthen his squad.
He was only able to bring in Glen Johnson and Alberto Aquilani over the summer as he sought to aid the club's owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks by balancing the books with the sales of the likes of Xabi Alonso.
And Benitez insists it was vital that he understood the economic situation at Anfield in order to prevent the Reds suffering the same fate which has befallen Leeds United in recent times.
Big picture
"I don't see Liverpool in the same way as Leeds," said Benitez.
"One of the priorities this year was to reduce the debt, so the club is working very hard to do this and I think that our position will be much better. We were doing a very good job this year trying to reduce the debt.
"It was one of the most important things that we had to manage. Along with football issues we had to manage them together.
"When I signed my five-year contract [in March] we knew that we had to work together so we will try to do the best for the club.
"Sometimes you can do it and still perform on the pitch and sometimes you have to wait a little bit. Sometimes you have to think about the big picture and the future of the club and that means you have to do your best on both sides.
"I think that we have to accept our situation and then try to do the best in the conditions that we have.
"Can we improve with these conditions? I think so, but it is a question of time."
This is also what a new manager would have to do - manage the debt .
Liverpool's financial situation has been cited as a reason for the team's lacklustre first half to this season, with Benitez not given the funds to strengthen his squad.
He was only able to bring in Glen Johnson and Alberto Aquilani over the summer as he sought to aid the club's owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks by balancing the books with the sales of the likes of Xabi Alonso.
And Benitez insists it was vital that he understood the economic situation at Anfield in order to prevent the Reds suffering the same fate which has befallen Leeds United in recent times.
Big picture
"I don't see Liverpool in the same way as Leeds," said Benitez.
"One of the priorities this year was to reduce the debt, so the club is working very hard to do this and I think that our position will be much better. We were doing a very good job this year trying to reduce the debt.
"It was one of the most important things that we had to manage. Along with football issues we had to manage them together.
"When I signed my five-year contract [in March] we knew that we had to work together so we will try to do the best for the club.
"Sometimes you can do it and still perform on the pitch and sometimes you have to wait a little bit. Sometimes you have to think about the big picture and the future of the club and that means you have to do your best on both sides.
"I think that we have to accept our situation and then try to do the best in the conditions that we have.
"Can we improve with these conditions? I think so, but it is a question of time."
This is also what a new manager would have to do - manage the debt .
- Benny The Noon
by Benny The Noon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:50 pm
Rafael Benítez cuts across Liverpool gloom with upbeat assessment
Rafael Benítez is more upbeat about his Liverpool team than most on Merseyside but cash constraints give him a tougher task than his rivals
Some good news for Liverpool at last. Fernando Torres is not going anywhere and, far from being in meltdown as Graeme Souness has unkindly suggested, the club do not have to worry about failing to qualify for the Champions League next season because Liverpool and today's opponents Arsenal are both going to finish in the top four.
The only bad news, as Liverpool fans have probably guessed, is that Rafa Benítez is taking a turn as newsreader. The same Benítez who freely admits he has little choice but to stay positive when the club find themselves in such a bad position, and the same one who is clinging to the belief that Liverpool were really unlucky to be caught three times by late goals in the Champions League.
"Late goals at the end of games changed everything, but only one was down to lack of concentration," the Liverpool manager says. "The other two were just mistakes. It's all part of football, but for the same thing to happen three times in the same competition is really unlucky. If that had not happened the atmosphere at the club would be totally different, your questions would be totally different and we would all be looking forward instead of looking back."
While that is a big if, Benítez is looking forward in any case. As he says, a man in his position does not have a lot of choice. Were he to dwell on what has gone wrong to the extent that most fans have been doing, or be as harshly self-critical as Steven Gerrard repeating his now perennial disappointment routine, even the Liver Birds might be tempted to give up the ghost and relocate their roost to Manchester City. Instead, Benítez is fortifying himself with what he knows to be true. "Liverpool had a very good season last year, and losing only twice in the league to finish with 86 points was a real achievement, even if it did not come with a trophy. People expected more of the same this season but mistakes have already cost us. We need to start winning games to reduce the gap at the top, but we have some good players coming back and I think we can do it. Can we improve with [Fernando] Torres back in the attack and Gerrard back to fitness? I think so. Can we concentrate on the league for the next couple of months, before the Europa League starts again in February? I don't see why not. I am sure the club is still going forward, the value of the squad is higher now than it was when I came. I have to be positive and say we can finish in the top four, but I know the quality we have here and I don't think I am being unrealistic."
Maybe not, and no one would be all that surprised if Liverpool beat Arsenal this afternoon or put together a sequence of results to take them back into the top four. A Champions League finish is still achievable, it is just that what used to be a minimum requirement has now become the grand objective. Benítez knows his fighting talk will not really fool anyone, especially players such as Torres and Javier Mascherano, coveted by other Champions League clubs and not exactly thrilled at the possibility of missing out. Or even Manchester City, who may not yet have the Champions League status to lure top players but have enough money to make Liverpool's cash-strapped owners listen.
"No chance," was Benítez's immediate response to a suggestion that Liverpool may find a large cash offer for Torres difficult to refuse. He snorted his reply in much the same way David Moyes reacted when he first heard City were interested in Joleon Lescott. The two situations are not miles apart, despite Liverpool's reluctance to view themselves as a selling club. They are not in the big money league any more, like Arsenal have been pushed aside by the Premier League's big two, and are now seeking to do what Arsène Wenger was doing years ago and compete by producing top-quality players of their own.
There is nothing wrong with that, except it could be argued that Manchester United and Chelsea are already doing it better and even Wenger is now finding it difficult to match his early success with home-grown players, but in a market dominated by financial muscle it is hard to stay self-sufficient without selling. Liverpool were miles behind their immediate rivals in youth development until a couple of years ago, when Benítez revamped the academy. Now Liverpool are starting to see players coming through the ranks again, even if there is not enough evidence yet to suggest the academy output can make a difference.
"Producing our own players is one thing we can do to save some money and bring some of the passion back," Benítez says, possibly revealing more than he intended. "Our aim is to do something similar to what Arsenal have done. Our academy is top class now and can be even better, but young players are no different to anything else in life: the more money you put in, the more quality you get out. Arsenal have been spending big money on young players, making sure the quality is there in the first place, and that's a great advantage."
The inference is clear. Even at academy level Liverpool will be stymied as long as money remains tight. Manchester United do not appear to be flush at the moment and Wenger has always been reluctant to spend big, though at least Arsenal have a budget. Benítez is alone in being asked to win the league while at the same time cutting back on expenditure.
"Sometimes you have to think of the big picture and the future of the club, and that's why we are working to reduce the debt," he explains.
"I have been here for six years, and I have just signed a five-year contract because I believe the club can make progress. I hope I can do 15 years here, like Arsène has done at Arsenal. I know we need a few wins to improve the atmosphere and make things more positive, but I think the majority of the fans realise the situation I am working under. They know I signed for five more years to fight for the club.
Rafael Benítez is more upbeat about his Liverpool team than most on Merseyside but cash constraints give him a tougher task than his rivals
Some good news for Liverpool at last. Fernando Torres is not going anywhere and, far from being in meltdown as Graeme Souness has unkindly suggested, the club do not have to worry about failing to qualify for the Champions League next season because Liverpool and today's opponents Arsenal are both going to finish in the top four.
The only bad news, as Liverpool fans have probably guessed, is that Rafa Benítez is taking a turn as newsreader. The same Benítez who freely admits he has little choice but to stay positive when the club find themselves in such a bad position, and the same one who is clinging to the belief that Liverpool were really unlucky to be caught three times by late goals in the Champions League.
"Late goals at the end of games changed everything, but only one was down to lack of concentration," the Liverpool manager says. "The other two were just mistakes. It's all part of football, but for the same thing to happen three times in the same competition is really unlucky. If that had not happened the atmosphere at the club would be totally different, your questions would be totally different and we would all be looking forward instead of looking back."
While that is a big if, Benítez is looking forward in any case. As he says, a man in his position does not have a lot of choice. Were he to dwell on what has gone wrong to the extent that most fans have been doing, or be as harshly self-critical as Steven Gerrard repeating his now perennial disappointment routine, even the Liver Birds might be tempted to give up the ghost and relocate their roost to Manchester City. Instead, Benítez is fortifying himself with what he knows to be true. "Liverpool had a very good season last year, and losing only twice in the league to finish with 86 points was a real achievement, even if it did not come with a trophy. People expected more of the same this season but mistakes have already cost us. We need to start winning games to reduce the gap at the top, but we have some good players coming back and I think we can do it. Can we improve with [Fernando] Torres back in the attack and Gerrard back to fitness? I think so. Can we concentrate on the league for the next couple of months, before the Europa League starts again in February? I don't see why not. I am sure the club is still going forward, the value of the squad is higher now than it was when I came. I have to be positive and say we can finish in the top four, but I know the quality we have here and I don't think I am being unrealistic."
Maybe not, and no one would be all that surprised if Liverpool beat Arsenal this afternoon or put together a sequence of results to take them back into the top four. A Champions League finish is still achievable, it is just that what used to be a minimum requirement has now become the grand objective. Benítez knows his fighting talk will not really fool anyone, especially players such as Torres and Javier Mascherano, coveted by other Champions League clubs and not exactly thrilled at the possibility of missing out. Or even Manchester City, who may not yet have the Champions League status to lure top players but have enough money to make Liverpool's cash-strapped owners listen.
"No chance," was Benítez's immediate response to a suggestion that Liverpool may find a large cash offer for Torres difficult to refuse. He snorted his reply in much the same way David Moyes reacted when he first heard City were interested in Joleon Lescott. The two situations are not miles apart, despite Liverpool's reluctance to view themselves as a selling club. They are not in the big money league any more, like Arsenal have been pushed aside by the Premier League's big two, and are now seeking to do what Arsène Wenger was doing years ago and compete by producing top-quality players of their own.
There is nothing wrong with that, except it could be argued that Manchester United and Chelsea are already doing it better and even Wenger is now finding it difficult to match his early success with home-grown players, but in a market dominated by financial muscle it is hard to stay self-sufficient without selling. Liverpool were miles behind their immediate rivals in youth development until a couple of years ago, when Benítez revamped the academy. Now Liverpool are starting to see players coming through the ranks again, even if there is not enough evidence yet to suggest the academy output can make a difference.
"Producing our own players is one thing we can do to save some money and bring some of the passion back," Benítez says, possibly revealing more than he intended. "Our aim is to do something similar to what Arsenal have done. Our academy is top class now and can be even better, but young players are no different to anything else in life: the more money you put in, the more quality you get out. Arsenal have been spending big money on young players, making sure the quality is there in the first place, and that's a great advantage."
The inference is clear. Even at academy level Liverpool will be stymied as long as money remains tight. Manchester United do not appear to be flush at the moment and Wenger has always been reluctant to spend big, though at least Arsenal have a budget. Benítez is alone in being asked to win the league while at the same time cutting back on expenditure.
"Sometimes you have to think of the big picture and the future of the club, and that's why we are working to reduce the debt," he explains.
"I have been here for six years, and I have just signed a five-year contract because I believe the club can make progress. I hope I can do 15 years here, like Arsène has done at Arsenal. I know we need a few wins to improve the atmosphere and make things more positive, but I think the majority of the fans realise the situation I am working under. They know I signed for five more years to fight for the club.
- Benny The Noon
by account deleted by request » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:51 pm
Benny The Noon wrote:Whoa calm down there - im looking at this realistically - i didnt say no one would come - i suspect some managers would want to manage us - in fact i expect world class managers would want to manager us BUT and its a big but people ignore would they come and manage us in the current financial situation we are in - most of those managers are sitting pretty at big clubs with backing from their current owners .
Where did i ever say we were second rate - lets not be putting words into my mouth - i think we are the greatest club in the world and want the best BUT would the best look at the situation the same as me and you - what is the lure to them bar it being liverpool ? The club is in debt and any profit goes to pay off loan interest (without even touching the debt ) a small budget available(if their is one) which needs to be topped up by selling players .
We have great players, great fans, a great history and the prospect of a great future. Who wouldn't want to be part of that?
Most managers can only fecking dream of the backing that Rafa has had in his time here. We have spent more than the mancs and Arsenal , we have give him free reign to bring in who he wanted as backroom staff, total control of the club and a six years.
So don't fecking start about what a fecking hard time he has had.
Managers at top clubs don't usually get rewarded with five year contracts FOR FAILING TO WIN ANYTHING for three years mate.
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:58 pm
s@int wrote:Benny The Noon wrote:Whoa calm down there - im looking at this realistically - i didnt say no one would come - i suspect some managers would want to manage us - in fact i expect world class managers would want to manager us BUT and its a big but people ignore would they come and manage us in the current financial situation we are in - most of those managers are sitting pretty at big clubs with backing from their current owners .
Where did i ever say we were second rate - lets not be putting words into my mouth - i think we are the greatest club in the world and want the best BUT would the best look at the situation the same as me and you - what is the lure to them bar it being liverpool ? The club is in debt and any profit goes to pay off loan interest (without even touching the debt ) a small budget available(if their is one) which needs to be topped up by selling players .
We have great players, great fans, a great history and the prospect of a great future. Who wouldn't want to be part of that?
Most managers can only fecking dream of the backing that Rafa has had in his time here. We have spent more than the mancs and Arsenal , we have give him free reign to bring in who he wanted as backroom staff, total control of the club and a six years.
So don't fecking start about what a fecking hard time he has had.
Managers at top clubs don't usually get rewarded with five year contracts FOR FAILING TO WIN ANYTHING for three years mate.
Where did i say he has had a hard time ?
Great fans ? yes majority but there is also the minority who are turning on the manager on phone ins on a daily basis .
Great History - sorry that means nothing to most managers .
Great Players - yes we have a number but do we have the finances to get us more great players and if wanted to buy great players maybe would have to sell great players to get different ones in .
Prospect of a great future - under our current owners and financial situation our future looks bleak
Why would a manager leave a top club in another league or this league where they are backed by the owners to buy any player they want and currently doing well to a club massively in debt with no money to buy anymore players of great quality without having to sell .
Your looking at the situation from a fan of many many many years - are these current managers fans of many many many years - No - they look at the current situation and judge from that .
Its of my opinion that none of those top managers people want to replace Rafa would touch us with a barge pole with the current owners and current financial situation we find us in .
- Benny The Noon
by Benny The Noon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:02 pm
Would you leave a top job with a better future and better backing to go to one with a bleak future and no backing ?
- Benny The Noon
by maypaxvobiscum » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:11 pm
hey S@int, put it this way, some people are saying that we have a first team capable of beating any team and i think that is true, hence, we dont need so many new players. what we need is a manager capable of bringing out the best of them and clearly rafa isnt the man. he is clueless when it comes to man management with his rigid approach and i agree when you say that he is too systematic.
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:18 pm
s@int wrote:And I think thats a load of b0llocks mate.
Another thing saint - would a trophy either FA Cup or Europa Cup plus a top 4 finish be enough for you to give him a season to repair this seasons awful situation ?
- Benny The Noon
by account deleted by request » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:19 pm
Benny The Noon wrote:Would you leave a top job with a better future and better backing to go to one with a bleak future and no backing ?
I thought you supported Liverpool ? Bleak future !
FFS we have some of the best players in the WORLD playing for us. We have all these wonderful young players that we have scoured the world to find.
We need someone to get the best out of the players we have, not someone who needs to spend ANOTHER £250MILLION.
Managers want to coach in the prem. They want more wages , and good players to coach and they want to be successful.
All they could ever want is waiting for them at the gates mate. All we need to do is pick the right one.
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:26 pm
s@int wrote:Benny The Noon wrote:Would you leave a top job with a better future and better backing to go to one with a bleak future and no backing ?
I thought you supported Liverpool ? Bleak future !
FFS we have some of the best players in the WORLD playing for us. We have all these wonderful young players that we have scoured the world to find.
We need someone to get the best out of the players we have, not someone who needs to spend ANOTHER £250MILLION.
Managers want to coach in the prem. They want more wages , and good players to coach and they want to be successful.
All they could ever want is waiting for them at the gates mate. All we need to do is pick the right one.
I do support Liverpool mate - have done for 30 years now but imo unless some investment is made into the club or its sold or a stadium is built then i think or future is pretty bleak currently .
Yes we do have some outstanding players - 4 of the worlds best in their current position in pepe,masher,gerrard and torres .
But some of those players cant play a whole season and havent done for a while due to them being injured a lot recently and one reaching the latter stages of his career and then he would need replacing - would dont have the sort of money to be able to replace him .
Going by previous seasons looking at the way the guys have played Rafa has had the best out of them previously , something is just not right at the moment - confidence,form morale everything is low - we start games of great - really go for it but as soon as a team equalises or goes ahead the players just loose it - lack of confidence .
yes managers want to manage in the prem and yes they do want more wages - can we afford those sort of wages ?
And the last point - who would be doing the picking mate - none of us - it would be G&H and last time they looked towards the talent of Klinsmann ?!?!
- Benny The Noon
by account deleted by request » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:39 pm
Nah mate, we have rarely got the best out of the players, and we seem to have a huge problem with players losing form and never picking it up again. Riise, Alonso (only picked up when he decided he was going) Sissoko, Skrtel, even your mate Kuyt has long periods of poor form etc etc .
We finally started to see what the team was capable of towards the end of last season, by this season we were back to square one, just like in 2006.
We finally started to see what the team was capable of towards the end of last season, by this season we were back to square one, just like in 2006.
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by Benny The Noon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:44 pm
s@int wrote:Nah mate, we have rarely got the best out of the players, and we seem to have a huge problem with players losing form and never picking it up again. Riise, Alonso (only picked up when he decided he was going) Sissoko, Skrtel, even your mate Kuyt has long periods of poor form etc etc .
We finally started to see what the team was capable of towards the end of last season, by this season we were back to square one, just like in 2006.
Well Riise has shown since he left that he had platued form wise .
Just look at what he has managed to produce from players like Yossi,Torres,Gerrard,Masher Agger before injury ,Aurelio , players before like Crouch and even Kuyt when on form .
Two of Gerrards best seasons have been when Rafa has played in in places no one would think of before Rafa did .
Torres arrived a very good player and within two seasons is the best striker in the world .
- Benny The Noon
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