Liverpool FC Forum

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:39 am

Im still backing him, In my eyes hes done enough in the time hes been here to guarentee my respect, im looking at the five years hes been here not the last three to four months, Im looking at the bigger picture , thats all

by **tubby** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:41 am

Rafa absolutely has to stay. The longer these bad results go on the more obvious it will be to the owners that if they really want us to be up there competing with the best then they HAVE TO SPEND SOME PROPER MONEY!

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:47 am

NANNY RED wrote:Im still backing him, In my eyes hes done enough in the time hes been here to guarentee my respect, im looking at the five years hes been here not the last three to four months, Im looking at the bigger picture , thats all

I dont think he has though personally nan.

I want trophies, the league obviously would be great but i dont expect that.

What i do want though is more than just coming in the top 4 season after season and going out the domestic cups with weak teams as finishing in the top 4 is more important.

I dont think that will happen under him.
I am certain that if we drew Arsenal or one of the other big clubs away in the FA cup and had a tricky league game after it he would prioritise the league game and play a weakend team in the cup resulting in defeat.
We should have went for it in the carling cup and gone there with our best side.

Sick of playing for top 4 and nothing else me.

by **bunglemark2** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:48 am

bavlondon wrote:Rafa absolutely has to stay. The longer these bad results go on the more obvious it will be to the owners that if they really want us to be up there competing with the best then they HAVE TO SPEND SOME PROPER MONEY!

OR...

They will decide that their main in charge is not getting results, and is incapable of turning it around. And then they'll do the customary US thing and sack him. And why would they be wrong to do that ? Look at it in black and white and take the biased blinkers off for a change. If the same was happening at other leading clubs, I, as an outsider looking in would say "That bloke has lost it completely. The players aren't playing for him. He has not been adept in his signings, as evidenced by the (lack of) quality he has when his first team choice is unavailable etc.. etc..."

Face the facts. Rafa has lost the plot. And yes, we ARE going backwards.

When in recent history has LFC lost two consecutive European home games ? When was the last time we lost 6 games at the start of a season ? When was the last time we conceded THREE identical injury time goals in the same competition ?

by **tubby** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:57 am

bunglemark2 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Rafa absolutely has to stay. The longer these bad results go on the more obvious it will be to the owners that if they really want us to be up there competing with the best then they HAVE TO SPEND SOME PROPER MONEY!

OR...

They will decide that their main in charge is not getting results, and is incapable of turning it around. And then they'll do the customary US thing and sack him. And why would they be wrong to do that ? Look at it in black and white and take the biased blinkers off for a change. If the same was happening at other leading clubs, I, as an outsider looking in would say "That bloke has lost it completely. The players aren't playing for him. He has not been adept in his signings, as evidenced by the (lack of) quality he has when his first team choice is unavailable etc.. etc..."

Face the facts. Rafa has lost the plot. And yes, we ARE going backwards.

When in recent history has LFC lost two consecutive European home games ? When was the last time we lost 6 games at the start of a season ? When was the last time we conceded THREE identical injury time goals in the same competition ?

And who would come in? Who in their right mind would even want to come in working under the current ownership knowing full well there may be no money to spend.

Do you want to see the likes of Hodgsen or McLaren at the club? Because forget about any top manager at the helm if he is sacked.

No wait lets just sack him and bring in Klinsman just so we see the stupid looks on some peoples faces in here.

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:07 pm

Ben thats your opinion mate an i respect that ,

But my view is as i said in my post. We were not even qualifying for the championsleague before mate , We were just about doing ok in the competition that loads now feel ashamed to be in , In my eyes he has improved our squad , Yes he does get on me nerves loads with his stubborness sometimes, an can certainly be blamed for some of our losses with his strange sub an team selections . I scratch me head an think why Rafa lad, But i respect him mate an still believe he is the best man for us,

I also would like to see some of the youngsters that he has bought come through, Hes been slated loads for buying yet another kid, an them not coming through , well up until he took over full control an moved them all to melwood . that wasnt gonna happen , Now he sees them every day he works with them . An you can see it eventualy starting to pay off, Ayala, Pacheco. Insua, Ngog, Kelly, Turning out to be good players imo.

I just think hes the right man for us , but thats my opinion

by **tubby** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:10 pm

The reason we haven't seen such bad performances last year or the year before is because we have never really been tested with as many injuries as we have this season. We always lacked real strength in depth and that has been exposed now. I just hope the owners take note and do what needs to be done.

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:16 pm

To be fair though nan, it wasnt top 4 that got into the champions league before Rafa was here it was top 3 wasnt it ?
I am not saying that he has been terrible.
He has done good things for the club making us feared again in europe and taking us close to the league last year.
I just think we have made massive backward steps this season and he hasnt learned at all from his mistakes.

At this moment and time we are in as steady a decline as we were in houlliers last season.
Losing games frequently against mediocre sides, i just dont think it can continue.
And i seriously cant see him turning this one round.

I respect anyone that still has faith though, fair play

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:27 pm

access wrote:I agree interesting reading from Owzat and spot on from Judge

Just a couple of things I see that on SSN they interviewed Masch and he was non commital on signing a new contract.

Rafa says the exit from CL will make them concentrate on the Premiership.

I wondered why Rafa didnt play a number of up and coming 'young' talent he is aparently bringing on through the ranks?

Youngsters played this season

Darby
Ayala
Kelly
Insua
Plessis
Speariing
El Zhar
Ngog
Ecclestone
Pacheco

by **tubby** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:31 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
access wrote:I agree interesting reading from Owzat and spot on from Judge

Just a couple of things I see that on SSN they interviewed Masch and he was non commital on signing a new contract.

Rafa says the exit from CL will make them concentrate on the Premiership.

I wondered why Rafa didnt play a number of up and coming 'young' talent he is aparently bringing on through the ranks?

Youngsters played this season

Darby
Ayala
Kelly
Insua
Plessis
Speariing
El Zhar
Ngog
Ecclestone
Pacheco

Insua is pretty much a fixture in the first team now but out of those youngsters there are probably only 2 that will make it, Kelly and Pacheco. I think Kelly was injured after the Lyon game and im not sure where he is at now but he impressed that night. Pacheco is one I would have expected to see more though tbh.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:33 pm

bigmick wrote:In all honesty, if the players took part in Dundalks poll on "stay or go" for the manager, and they were allowed to vote under a nom de plume and in secret, how do you think the majority would vote?

I am absolutely convinced looking at the mood of the players, the body language, our lack of passion and the rest that the players would vote overwhelmingly for a change of manager.

I would have to totally disagree with many of the players already been out in support of the manager

Pepe - Stay
Johnson - Stay
Agger - Stay
Carra - Stay
Insua - Stay
Aurelio - Stay
Masher - Undecided
Lucas -Stay
Kuyt - Stay
Babel- Go
Voronin - Go
Yossi - Stay
Gerrard - Stay
Torres - Stay
Skrtel - Stay
Ngog - Stay
Aquilani - Stay

Thats how i think they would all vote .

by **access** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:48 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
access wrote:I agree interesting reading from Owzat and spot on from Judge

Just a couple of things I see that on SSN they interviewed Masch and he was non commital on signing a new contract.

Rafa says the exit from CL will make them concentrate on the Premiership.

I wondered why Rafa didnt play a number of up and coming 'young' talent he is aparently bringing on through the ranks?

Youngsters played this season

Darby
Ayala
Kelly
Insua
Plessis
Speariing
El Zhar
Ngog
Ecclestone
Pacheco

I know what your saying but I actually meant 'last night' seeing the Valencia match was a dead rubber.

Why didnt Rafa play all his 'young guns' as you pointed out in your list and a couple of our experienced players.

I dont want to get into a row about this but I know and you know that he hasnt got a 'brilliant' crop of young and I mean 17/18 year olds coming through.

I hate saying this but when I watch Arsenal I keep thinking WHY aint we doing this!!!!!

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:51 pm

Well he had a few fringe players to play and some to try and find form - the only player i think shouldnt of played last night was kuyt and maybe inusa

Caverlli - enabled pepe to have a rest

Darby - young un
Srtkel - fringe to keep him sharp
Agger - Increasing his sharpness
Insua - shouldnt of played but maybe was done to find a bit of form

Masher - To find form
Aquilani - Fitness
Yossi - Fitness after injury
Dossena - shop window

gerrard - form and fitness
Kuyt - shouldnt of played but maybe was done to find some form

by **access** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:00 pm

Average age of the Arsenal team last night 21 whilst I HATE them with a passion why can Wenger do this as a coach and NOT rafa, you think he is the right choice.... but I still find it qestionable?

I am sorry but some people have the 'rose coloured spectacles' whatever they see ... you surely cannot argue the point that Liverpool my team .... have a crop of exciting youngsters bursting through ... when I hear today rightly or wrong on this forum saing again ''we HAVE TO SPEND BIG'' eh

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:05 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
bigmick wrote:In all honesty, if the players took part in Dundalks poll on "stay or go" for the manager, and they were allowed to vote under a nom de plume and in secret, how do you think the majority would vote?

I am absolutely convinced looking at the mood of the players, the body language, our lack of passion and the rest that the players would vote overwhelmingly for a change of manager.

I would have to totally disagree with many of the players already been out in support of the manager

Pepe - Stay
Johnson - Stay
Agger - Stay
Carra - Stay
Insua - Stay
Aurelio - Stay
Masher - Undecided
Lucas -Stay
Kuyt - Stay
Babel- Go
Voronin - Go
Yossi - Stay
Gerrard - Stay
Torres - Stay
Skrtel - Stay
Ngog - Stay
Aquilani - Stay

Thats how i think they would all vote .

I dont for one minute believe that Stevie would want him to stay.

I know you will come back and say based on what ?

His body language is my answer, he looks totally fed up and even if he wouldnt admit it publicly i think he would definately prefer a new manager.

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Sack him. if you want the manager sacked - ...put your thoughts in here.

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