Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:47 pm

Anyway, blanket throwing and silliness aside, if we were to lose against Arsenal on Sunday then even getting into the top four may begin to look like a bit of a mountain. I think that above all else will be the deciding factor in the future of the manager. If it looks at any point like he really isn't going to get us there, then I feel the trigger will be pulled around then. I would agree with the decision under those circumstances too.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:50 pm

Yes getting into the top 4 is a crucial factor in the future of Rafa at Liverpool . But we wont know that until the end of season unless we loose many games to have us in the bottomn half many points adrift but i cant see that happening myself .

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:02 pm

You don’t need me to remind you just how diabolical our season has become – we can all see and feel it, and our chances of finishing in the top 4 seem to diminish with each passing game. With that in mind, I recently spoke ‘off the record’ with a financier who was central in discussions when DIC and Robert Kraft where looking to buy the club, and also when Hicks and Gillett took over.

Before I carry on, I must just say that I absolutely can’t reveal this person's identity, as they would be in some very serious trouble due to confidentiality agreements.

I should also say they are no longer involved with the club but do keep an eye on what is going on and have conversations with people close to those at the very top. This contact is also someone I respect and wish to protect.

Enough said, back to the nitty gritty.

In short, regarding Liverpool FC, my contact is a worried man (aren’t we all), but for a different reason to most of us; he is worried about our struggles off the pitch.

He confirmed to me that Tom Hicks and George Gillett's financial model is - or until very recently, was - based on Liverpool qualifying for the Champions League every season.

Without qualification this season, he believes things ‘do not look pretty’ for our summer transfer activity.

Far from us not signing any top class players or even having a net spend of zero, he believes it is possible that Rafa will be instructed to make a profit in the transfer window by as much as £10-£15m.

My source wanted to also leave me with some positive news though and that seemed to centre on two areas:

1. The club is working hard behind the scenes to secure new investment with the twin goals of building the new stadium and reducing debt level.

2. We will also see further commercial success in the future (as we've already seen with the Standard Chartered/Carlsberg deals recently).

Maybe we can actually still finish in the top 4, but looking at recent evidence, I won’t hold my breath. We may have to rely on one of my contact’s points for hope.

Alex Miller

Alex has been a financial journalist for 10 years and has written about Liverpool FC's finances for 'The Sunday Express'. In 2008, he was the IFA's Financial Reporter of the Year

If any of the above is true would it put of any manager coming in knowing having to sell players ? Would it on the other hand also make Rafa walk away ?

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:07 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Yes getting into the top 4 is a crucial factor in the future of Rafa at Liverpool . But we wont know that until the end of season unless we loose many games to have us in the bottomn half many points adrift but i cant see that happening myself .

No you're right you obviously don't know for absolute certain until the last ball has been kicked, but you can have a pretty good idea long before then. Fortunately, amongst the many possibilities which are open to us currently, I think even third place is just about feasible. Clearly fourth is still well within our compass, and it's still possible we could get there comfortably. Indeed the manager has been very confident when asked, although there is probably a hint of the Mandy Rice Davies in his answers.

That said, the most likely scenario from where we are right now is that we'll be in a dogfight with at least two other clubs for the fourth spot. While that remains the case, the owners are likely I think to stick with it. Were we to get to the point where we weren't actually out of the race but looked like we were becoming outsiders, that would be the point to pull the trigger IMHO. That way a new bloke could come in without having massive pressure in that it wasn't his incompetence which got us into the mess in the first place. He could have a good go, get to know the players and hopefully make a signing or two in the Summer.

It's worth noting though that our performance this season so far has been absolutely farcical, horrendously bad. A few more weeks of it and we'll be in trouble. Teams down the bottom fairly regularly change up the manager before the relegation axe falls, with some success. Managers such as Harry Redknapp, Steve Bruce, Allardyce and the rest have been successfully shunted in around Christmas time to do a rescue job. We don't (quite) need a rescue job right now, but a couple more flat performces devoid of inspiration like we've seen recently and we will.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:10 pm

Do you really think a manager would come in after March say with just a couple months left in the season ? We might also be doing well in the FA Cup or Europa Cup and be in the latter stages of either of those competitions ?

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:17 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Do you really think a manager would come in after March say with just a couple months left in the season ? We might also be doing well in the FA Cup or Europa Cup and be in the latter stages of either of those competitions ?

I think whenever the managers job became available at Liverpool, we would be absolutely knocked over in the rush with applications from World Class candidates (don't ask me "well who are they then" because I'm not going to get involved in that one). Unlike many of the so called "positive" people, I actually think we have a good team and a good bunch of players (thanks in no small part ot the manager obviously) and I think any manager would look at it and realise that we have huge potential.

In terms of the manager keeping his job, the Europa Cup and the FA Cup will be irrelevent IMHO, and I think the change would come long before March. I really honestly do think there is almost a sleepwalking going on amongst our fnas right now, in that I don't think there is much appreciation of how bad we have been this season. This has been a disgraceful effort on many levels, and performces such as the one at Blackburn at the weekend were unbelieveably poor. We take 8000 fans to an away match and barely muster a shot in anger in the first half, even though things improved in the second it was a display which reeked of a lack of passion, lack of urgency, lack of inspiration.

IMHO it's a relatively poor Premiership this season (again) and those teams below the top six or seven ought to be well beatable. The Mancs aren't a patch on the team they were last season, and they are still rolling teams over with ruthless efficiency despite having an injury list longer than ours. If we carry on as we are, the trigger should be pulled long before March.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:30 pm

But can you be out of the running for a top 4 spot in march thou ? Thats what im meaning Mick by the time we might not make the top 4 it will be very close to the end of the season .

We do have a very very good team - one of the best in the prem (first 11) but it just hasnt clicked , players off form and its not good enough .

And as for Manager leaping at the job and world class ones at that - i disagree - There isnt many top world class managers who would leap at the chance to come to a club with the financial problems and owners problems we have got currently. I know that is hard to think given the stature of the club but knowing they may not get backing to make squad their own - maybe having to sell the top players to fund other purchases , owners at war with each other and at the manager . There isnt many top world class managers who would leave their current club to walk into that .

by **Keris** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:52 pm

lakes10 wrote:Rafa picks and buys the players mate, if you are say the players can not do the job then the blame must go to the preson that got them............Rafa.

Rafa can only do so much.
But on the field, the player must be responsible for themselves.

Rafa cannot be responsible for;
1. Skrtel caught ball watching.
2. Babel wanting to be substituted after the first knock.
3. Voronin to score freely in Bundesliga but can't do feck all in the Premiership.
4. Insua missing passes.
5. Lucas missing headers.

Not saying don't sack Rafa at all, but lets give these players a kick up the beehind and see what happened first.

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:22 pm

Keris wrote:Not saying don't sack Rafa at all, but lets give these players a kick up the beehind and see what happened first.

Who's going to do it mate? I'll do it if you stick em on a flight to New Zealand. Failing that, it might be reasonable to expect the manager to do it I reckon.

by **shanklygates** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:25 pm

i have 1 question.

what is so good about rafa benitez?

and before you say he won us the european cup, that was 5 years ago, past history, i'm interested in the present and the future.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:27 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:But can you be out of the running for a top 4 spot in march thou ? Thats what im meaning Mick by the time we might not make the top 4 it will be very close to the end of the season .

We do have a very very good team - one of the best in the prem (first 11) but it just hasnt clicked , players off form and its not good enough .

And as for Manager leaping at the job and world class ones at that - i disagree - There isnt many top world class managers who would leap at the chance to come to a club with the financial problems and owners problems we have got currently. I know that is hard to think given the stature of the club but knowing they may not get backing to make squad their own - maybe having to sell the top players to fund other purchases , owners at war with each other and at the manager . There isnt many top world class managers who would leave their current club to walk into that .

We could be out of the running for top 4 by Christmas mate. It doesn't have to be mathematically impossible before you are out of the running, just as it doesn't have to be mathematically impossible before you are out of the title race.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:33 pm

s@int wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:But can you be out of the running for a top 4 spot in march thou ? Thats what im meaning Mick by the time we might not make the top 4 it will be very close to the end of the season .

We do have a very very good team - one of the best in the prem (first 11) but it just hasnt clicked , players off form and its not good enough .

And as for Manager leaping at the job and world class ones at that - i disagree - There isnt many top world class managers who would leap at the chance to come to a club with the financial problems and owners problems we have got currently. I know that is hard to think given the stature of the club but knowing they may not get backing to make squad their own - maybe having to sell the top players to fund other purchases , owners at war with each other and at the manager . There isnt many top world class managers who would leave their current club to walk into that .

We could be out of the running for top 4 by Christmas mate. It doesn't have to be mathematically impossible before you are out of the running, just as it doesn't have to be mathematically impossible before you are out of the title race.

I cant see that happening mate not with the way the season has gone - we have been shocking yet only a couple points behind the top 4 slot .

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:34 pm

I must say fair play to the mods. The idea of wiping the slate clean by closing the old thread and reopening afresh has breathed new life into this discussion :buttrock

.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:36 pm

Lets hope it stays sensible mick from both sides .

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:42 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Lets hope it stays sensible mick from both sides .

I think it was pretty sensible before mate TBH. When you create a thread entitled "Sack Him" and the mods explicitly tell everyone who has feelings along those lines to put them into the one thread, it's fairly obvious people are going to say 'he should be sacked", "get rid", "I've lost faith in the man" and such things. That's what the thread is/was for, and obviously people who don't think he ought to be sacked are going to come in and say why they think that/abuse the person who thinks we should/attempt to derail the discussion.

I've no doubts that this thread will be exactly the same in time.

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