Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:28 am

I personally think we should give the manager every opportunity to turn things around. I think this for two reasons.

1. He deserves it.
2. Unless it is categorically proven that he isn't going to do the business, no new manager will be given a fair crack of the whip. So keen are people to be proven correct, that any success he had would only be "Rafa's success really" and if he didn't start too well, they'd be all over him. No, lets give the manager every opportunity to make peoples minds up once and for all.

Apologies for starting a new thread but the old one was shut down. I do think it makes the boards tidier if all discussions such as this are kept in the one place, so I decided to take up the moderator in questions offer to start a new thread.

by **dawson99** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:30 am

We've given the manager years... and the team don't seem to want to play for him. That's what it comes down to, will the players play for him or not. Personally I don't think they will...

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:42 am

dawson99 wrote:We've given the manager years... and the team don't seem to want to play for him. That's what it comes down to, will the players play for him or not. Personally I don't think they will...

I kind of agree daws', it's about inspiration. The managers job is to inspire and he quite obviously isn't doing it.

Many people talk about the owners and I have some sympathy with their point of view. The owners are c...s lets face it, and Rafa has to work under difficult circumstances. The thing is though, if we were up there all season long and missed out on the title by a couple of points, you could get right into the owners and say it was totally because they hadn't splashed the cash in the Summer. As it is though as we all know, we aren't two points back we are an absolute mile back, out of it before the end of Novemeber which is an absolute disgrace.

Don't tell me about injuries either. Look at the Mancs and look at their injuries. Look at the fact they lost Tevez and Ronaldo in the Summer, and made a net 62 million quid profit on transfers. We finsihed four points behind them last season, this season they aren't anywhere near as good a team or squad and we're a mile back. You can hardly blame that on the owners I don't think.

Our efforts this season have been a joke to be totally honest, from the ill concieved pre season debacle, to signing injured players, to failing to cover obvious holes in the squad, to failing to address obvious deficiencies in central midfield by moving personel around, to ridiculous substitutions. I cannot think of a single big decision we've got right.

Give him chance to turn it around, if he doesn't he's got to go.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:50 am

you know the injury excuses can simply be wiped out by the Manure's result last night when they had Carrick, Park and Evra in defence and still won 3-1. hated it. i just hated seeing Judas score 3 goals and to think we didnt go for him when we could have gotten him for free.

by **red_guy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:14 am

Agreed.

by **stmichael** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:30 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:you know the injury excuses can simply be wiped out by the Manure's result last night when they had Carrick, Park and Evra in defence and still won 3-1. hated it. i just hated seeing Judas score 3 goals and to think we didnt go for him when we could have gotten him for free.

united were hammered for long spells in that match and played on the counter attack. wolfsburgs finishing was woeful. if they'd taken their chances they'd have won the game comfortably.

by **kazza** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:20 pm

To coin a phrase "sh1t thread" :;):

To lock a thread with 109 pages of cr@p only to open another one no doubt this will shed light that has not previously been shed.

Logic has been a rare commodity lately. More of a wind up than anything no doubt as some thrive on doom n gloom. Pathetic how some seem to truly enjoy this bad spell.

by **Redman in wales** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:37 pm

stmichael wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:you know the injury excuses can simply be wiped out by the Manure's result last night when they had Carrick, Park and Evra in defence and still won 3-1. hated it. i just hated seeing Judas score 3 goals and to think we didnt go for him when we could have gotten him for free.

united were hammered for long spells in that match and played on the counter attack. wolfsburgs finishing was woeful. if they'd taken their chances they'd have won the game comfortably.

if's and but's mate.

if there was no beach ball on the pitch
if we'd have scored against blackburn.....

the if list is endless, all that matters is the result, utd won 3-1 with only 1 fit defender, and without their first choice keeper. it dont matter how much they were under the cosh

at the end of the day would you rather outplay arsenal on sunday and lose, or have them all over us and win 3-1. I know which one i'd chose.

- this is not a dig at you mike, more the fact that its not the injuries you have, its how you cope with them that matters.

by **access** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:39 pm

I keep thinking give him a chance to turn it around and find myself saying 'next year is our year' but I have been doing that for 5 years now.

If we step away from football for a moment [sorry] take football out of equasion and for example say Rafa was running a business 'whatever' it was [my background is Printing] I am sorry to inform you the business would be struggling and he either would have to resign or he would be fired, I work in a results business.

Rafa wanted autocratic management total control so basically he takes the heat ... he hires and fires he takes on the staff that he wants and fires the ones he doesn't whatever people say forget the owners for a moment they dont run the day to day business... remember what I said once on here 'you can NEVER criticise a person on the shop floor you can only criticise a Manager'.

My point is I have worked in business for 30 years and if Rafa were running any of the ones I were involved in he would have been gone months ago.... and ask yourself if you go to work today and you work for a company this is struggling to perform and you moan at your boss who's fault is it .... yours or his?

BUT then we have the huge problem do we carry on with the same person running the business or try someone new? also there isnt a 'pile' of decent Managers to take up the role.

MY point is when I look at how Rafa has been running Liverpool over the last 18 months I wonder if he is the right person but sorry I aint got an easy answer.

by **dawson99** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:40 pm

kazza wrote:To coin a phrase "sh1t thread"

To lock a thread with 109 pages of cr@p only to open another one no doubt this will shed light that has not previously been shed.

Logic has been a rare commodity lately. More of a wind up than anything no doubt as some thrive on doom n gloom. Pathetic how some seem to truly enjoy this bad spell.

shocking nothing post from kazza

yawn

by **lakes10** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:15 pm

1. We have given him every opportunity to show he can win the prem.

2. he has taken 76 players to the club, yes a lot of them are young kids but we have been left a weaker team for it.

3 over the last 3 years has has been lacking with ideas on how to beat lower teams that just sit back

4. has always put the CL above the Prem

5, stick to his guns too much, he will pick picking players that are out of form, and not just this year.

6. we stick with players that shoud never put on a Liverpool shirt again.

7, talks too much about the problem in the club and about his contract.

8 hold off too long when it comes to making deals with new players, buy the time he makes his mind up the price has gone up or they have gone to another club.

9. finds it hard to change the way we play during the game, will alway stick to his plan even if its not working, one of the only time he has change was when we won the CL.

10 Fnids it hard to build relationship with players, this often leads a player to feel left out, he will neve be good at man management.

11. has let too many good players go.

12. keeps playing players out of position

by **supersub** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:40 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:you know the injury excuses can simply be wiped out by the Manure's result last night when they had Carrick, Park and Evra in defence and still won 3-1. hated it. i just hated seeing Judas score 3 goals and to think we didnt go for him when we could have gotten him for free.

Do you mean you agree to Liverpool FC sacking their manager on the pretext that Manu beat Wolfsburg 3-1....Does this train of thought mean if Manu get beat Rafa gets the maypax reprieve

by **supersub** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:41 pm

bigmick wrote:Apologies for starting a new thread but the old one was shut down.

No need for apologies , it was explained ...

by **supersub** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:50 pm

kazza wrote:To coin a phrase "sh1t thread"

To lock a thread with 109 pages of cr@p only to open another one no doubt this will shed light that has not previously been shed.

To use your Sh.it analogy....

When the bowl is full, probably best to flush and leave a clean toilet for the next person to sh.it on. :laugh:

I'm sure there will be some sh.itting done here for awhile.

by **Effes** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:54 pm

supersub wrote:
bigmick wrote:Apologies for starting a new thread but the old one was shut down.

No need for apologies , it was explained ...

A purely objective decision I'm sure.

I think after finishing 2nd last season, people will argue that Rafa has what it takes to win the league.

The thing is though, we were more or less out of the race by end of January, and I
think it was only a "last roll of the dice" that saw us play probably our best attacking football played
under Rafa.

If we were say, 3 points behind the leaders, we wouldn't have played that kind of football.

I dont think Rafa will ever win us the league; but, conversely I would be very wary of who G&H would pick as his successor.
You would think they would be wise enough to seek advice of people like Kenny for such an appointment.
It's not a certainty though.

It's very much a catch 22.

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Sack him. if you want the manager sacked - ...put your thoughts in here.

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