Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:53 pm

Ciggy wrote:That article from Tony Cascarino is a load of sh!te.

How is a team with Traore, Salif Diao and Igor biscan better than we have now?

Houllier signed worst players than Rafa has, the difference is Rafa gets rid once he realises they are sh!te, houllier didnt.

i agree. to suggest that the team in 2004/5 didn't need transforming is nonsense. dudek was nowhere near consistent enough, hamann was getting on, biscan was a regular for long spells of the season, traore was our left back and baros was our main striker after cisse got injured (neither of them were good enough).

it was nothing short of a miracle to win th CL with that side.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:we haven't had injuries to key players, then? We weren't playing Ayala at the back at the start of the season and Carragher at rightback in the last few matches?

Ok then...

I think you'll find that PARRY refused to sanction a deal for Barry. Rafa AND Gerrard wanted him, remember?

I am not trying to say we have had no injuries mate, because we have. What I am trying to say (and obviously failing )is that although we have had injuries, most of our bad results weren't due to key players being missing.

We could have gone for Barry THIS SEASON, but obviously Rafa preferred to get the top price for Alonso and prioritise the Johnson purchase. Barry goes to citeh and we sign a player who misses the first 4 months of the season instead.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:00 pm

heimdall wrote:Didn't Martin O'Neill say he would never sell him to Liverpool, I thought that was the main stumbling block. Why would Parry have refused that deal when he released a similar amount of money for Keane??

Because Parry didn't think Barry was worth the money.

You have a very short (or selective - I'm unsure which) memory...

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:04 pm

s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:we haven't had injuries to key players, then? We weren't playing Ayala at the back at the start of the season and Carragher at rightback in the last few matches?

Ok then...

I think you'll find that PARRY refused to sanction a deal for Barry. Rafa AND Gerrard wanted him, remember?

I am not trying to say we have had no injuries mate, because we have. What I am trying to say (and obviously failing )is that although we have had injuries, most of our bad results weren't due to key players being missing.

We could have gone for Barry THIS SEASON, but obviously Rafa preferred to get the top price for Alonso and prioritise the Johnson purchase. Barry goes to citeh and we sign a player who misses the first 4 months of the season instead.

Injuries and lack of form from key players will batter any side.

It seems to me that a lot of people have been happy to rip Carra a new a*sehole for his performances but I've not seen 1 person point out the fact that Gerrard has been shocking by his own standards this year.

(I'm not talking about you, either, before you jump up and down in anger.)

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:08 pm

stmichael wrote:
Ciggy wrote:That article from Tony Cascarino is a load of sh!te.

How is a team with Traore, Salif Diao and Igor biscan better than we have now?

Houllier signed worst players than Rafa has, the difference is Rafa gets rid once he realises they are sh!te, houllier didnt.

i agree. to suggest that the team in 2004/5 didn't need transforming is nonsense. dudek was nowhere near consistent enough, hamann was getting on, biscan was a regular for long spells of the season, traore was our left back and baros was our main striker after cisse got injured (neither of them were good enough).

it was nothing short of a miracle to win th CL with that side.

We now have Degan, Dossena, Voronin, Babel, BUT RAFA GETS RID OF THE BAD PLAYERS? :laugh:

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:12 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:we haven't had injuries to key players, then? We weren't playing Ayala at the back at the start of the season and Carragher at rightback in the last few matches?

Ok then...

I think you'll find that PARRY refused to sanction a deal for Barry. Rafa AND Gerrard wanted him, remember?

I am not trying to say we have had no injuries mate, because we have. What I am trying to say (and obviously failing )is that although we have had injuries, most of our bad results weren't due to key players being missing.

We could have gone for Barry THIS SEASON, but obviously Rafa preferred to get the top price for Alonso and prioritise the Johnson purchase. Barry goes to citeh and we sign a player who misses the first 4 months of the season instead.

Injuries and lack of form from key players will batter any side.

It seems to me that a lot of people have been happy to rip Carra a new a*sehole for his performances but I've not seen 1 person point out the fact that Gerrard has been shocking by his own standards this year.

(I'm not talking about you, either, before you jump up and down in anger.)

I agree with the lack of form mate, as I did in my original post.

I also think the lack of fight and spirit shown by the team has been disgraceful at times.

by **bunglemark2** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:14 pm

s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:we haven't had injuries to key players, then? We weren't playing Ayala at the back at the start of the season and Carragher at rightback in the last few matches?

Ok then...

I think you'll find that PARRY refused to sanction a deal for Barry. Rafa AND Gerrard wanted him, remember?

I am not trying to say we have had no injuries mate, because we have. What I am trying to say (and obviously failing )is that although we have had injuries, most of our bad results weren't due to key players being missing.

We could have gone for Barry THIS SEASON, but obviously Rafa preferred to get the top price for Alonso and prioritise the Johnson purchase. Barry goes to citeh and we sign a player who misses the first 4 months of the season instead.

Injuries and lack of form from key players will batter any side.

It seems to me that a lot of people have been happy to rip Carra a new a*sehole for his performances but I've not seen 1 person point out the fact that Gerrard has been shocking by his own standards this year.

(I'm not talking about you, either, before you jump up and down in anger.)

I agree with the lack of form mate, as I did in my original post.

I also think the lack of fight and spirit shown by the team has been disgraceful at times.

Agreed

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:14 pm

In case people have forgotten :-

Table 2002/3 after 13 games

P W D L F A pts
1 Liverpool 13 9 3 1 24 10 30

Table 2009/10 after 13 games

P W D L F A pts
7 Liverpool 13 6 2 5 29 20 20

Yes it all went wrong shortly after that, but to say that we didn't have a good team under Houllier is wrong, as is saying that he didn't leave Rafa with some excellent players.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:17 pm

We did have a good team under GH and their were some decent and some very good players left but their was also a lot of dross that enabled them to finish 30 odd points behind the winners that season and some of the better players were in their latter years .

Some of those excellent players left behind have become even better under Rafa .

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:29 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:We did have a good team under GH and their were some decent and some very good players left but their was also a lot of dross that enabled them to finish 30 odd points behind the winners that season and some of the better players were in their latter years .

Some of those excellent players left behind have become even better under Rafa .

And we have a lot of poor players now. Managers acquire them over the years, and either can't get rid(they don't want to go or no-one wants them) or don't like to admit they bought badly.

The point is every manager has to replace players as they age, so there is nothing unusual or "special" about it.

Good players in there early twenties usually improve mate.

I just find that all this cr@p about him inheriting a poor team irritating. The players had lost heart and fight, but just like Spurs under Redknapp a new manager brings renewed hope.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:31 pm

I dont think we have a lot of poor players - think the difference between the two is the not good enough or sub standard players GH were in the main 11 where as rafas poor players - namely voronin and babel are just back up/squad players .

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:38 pm

Dudek
Finnan
Carra
Hyypia

Kewell
Gerrard
Hamann
Murphy

Owen
Heskey

subs
Kirkland
Henchoz
Traore
Biscan
Smicer
Baros
Pongole

Now lets talk about Deggan, Dossena, Voronin and Babel.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:46 pm

s@int wrote:Dudek
Finnan
Carra
Hyypia

Kewell
Gerrard
Hamann
Murphy

Owen
Heskey

subs
Kirkland
Henchoz
Traore
Biscan
Smicer
Baros
Pongole

Now lets talk about Deggan, Dossena, Voronin and Babel.

Well has Degen played badly when he has played - wouldnt say he was bad more never fit so that leaves us with three players

Owen left before Rafa
Murphy was replaced with xabi
Kewell disappointed many times
Heskey couldnt score for two seasons
Dudek had a great start with us but in the end made too many mistakes .
Sami - aging but still great
Hamann - same as above
Smicer - disappointed for us on a number of occasions

But that starting 11 is still not as strong as our current starting 11 .

Then thier is
Diao
Diouf
Traore
Biscan
Le Tallec
Vignal
Baros
Cheyrou

All not good enough IMO

p.s. you forgot riise who was a very good left back .

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:07 pm

Owen left before Rafa

Wrong, no he didn't

Murphy was replaced with xabi

No he wasn't they played in completely different positions

Kewell disappointed many times

No, he was injured a lot, but played well and added balance to the side.

Heskey couldnt score for two seasons

Yet his goalscoring record is on a par with your hero Kuyt

Heskey 223 games 60 goals better than 1 in 4, Kuyt 166 games 44goals (just)better than one in 4

Dudek had a great start with us but in the end made too many mistakes .

There is no doubt that Reina is the better goalkeeper but Reina makes mistakes too...... infact 2 in the FA CUP FINAL spring to mind.

Sami - aging but still great

And still better than the big greek

Baros golden goals winner , and a goalscoring record of 1 in 4 ......108 / 27

Yeah I left room for Riise at left back but just forgot to put him in.

Don't forget Rafa has spent over £200million and five years improving on that team

by **LFC2007** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:10 pm

Another refreshing debate

Liverpool FC Forum

In this season of death....... - Where did we most go wrong?

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