Liverpool FC Forum

by **killerp** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:04 am

Poor form from key defenders
Too many injuries in a short period
No options up front
Lots of issues with subs eg; not played enough, played out of position or simply not good enough to fill in.

The biggest problem this season which overrides all of that

BADLUCK!!!!
:down:

If it can go wrong, it will. This season anyway.

by **aCe'** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:26 am

Ding Dong...

Preseason ... What did some in this forum say only to be slated by others ?

"Lucas and Mascherano dont work together, maybe we should pull Gerrard back until Aquilani is fit" .... was met with .... Lucas is improving and hes proven that he can do a job as backup..etc etc

"we need a quality backup for Torres, we shouldnt have sold Keane without replacing him" ... was met with ... We scored more and played better after we sold Keane, isnt this the same side that finished 2nd with record points...etc etc

"Kuyt is a poor player, does anyone really think that he'll score 14 tap ins from inside the 6yards box again ?".. met with ... hes the best right winger in the league...

"we got problems at the back, Skrtel is sht tbh and Agger while being a good footballer isnt that good a defender, Hyypia until he left was always our best CB"... met with "Hyypias legs are gone, and in Skrtel and Agger we have 2 potentially great CBs who are proven.. besides our defensive record is great" blah blah blah...

Admittedly, those with concerns never in a million years thought it would be this bad, but the concerns were always there for all to see... We havet addressed the issues that we should have before the season started and now -so early on- we are paying for that... I think over the next few weeks we'll improve drastically with everyone getting back in the side and with a settled starting 11 being picked week in week out... In January i expect the rest of our summer budget to be spent on a backup FW and maybe another winger, can also see a couple of players leaving... Lets face it though, we can only improve from here on in....

End of this season though, Rafa must go...

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:24 am

heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
heimdall wrote:Lando is funny, not sure he means to be though.

he always gives such a balanced view and treats everyone with respect oh and he redefines the word irony with every post

In this case Lando accusing BM of being an ego maniac, I mean seriously you couldn't make it up could you, well actually Lando could but most mere mortals surely couldn't.

Lando please tell me how old you are and why you feel the need to question peoples intelligence all the time, why are you so insecure that you feel the need to attack others? Come on share with the forum, maybe it'll be the first step on the road to recovery, I still think you should see a psychiatrist though for anger management if nothing else, I dread to think how you treat your "loved" ones or indeed how you have been treated.

Another example of an idiot following the crowd.

Why can't it be that I am just so completely angered by the ignorance shown by the like of you?

Don't try to be a psychiatrist, Heimdall - you'd get sacked inside a minute.

Oopsy did you pick up another card Lando, want to talk about it, I'm listening.

The thing is Lando is you use foul language then you are going to p1ss people off immediately and they won't listen to you at all and if you try to belittle peopel well that's just pathetic. Why do you believe you are so much smarter than everybody else anyway? A truly intelligent person would NOT feel the need to put other people down all the time.

What exactly are you trying to do to me with this post, then, Einstein?

If you had to read drivel typed by people with less knowledge than a new-born baby girl day after day, you might lose your rag a bit, too. If you'd taken the time on a fair few occasions to set the record straight, only for the facts to be shot down in more written sputum, YOU'D probably get the hump.

If you weren't such a miserable chap, YOU'D probably get a bit cross when people make things worse straight after being knocked out of the Champions' League.

The thing is, bad outcomes only ever seem to excuse the NEGATIVE comments. "Rafa's sh*t - f*ck off back to Spain" - that is acceptable after a defeat, apparently.

But telling the biggest protagonist in the history of Newkit to f*ck off and stop posting the same rubbish day in, day out is sacrilegious, evidently.

I believe I have had an epiphany: Remove BigMick, and the board would be a much nicer place: No more repetitive threads, no more bull-rustling from the head cowboy and no more utter tripe for the hordes of unintelligible non-fans to hide behind and essentially add they "like this post."

That's why I get annoyed, monobrow. That's probably why a few others get annoyed - constant, incessant bullpats stinking the place out with unerring frequency.

The trouble is that the only ones who DON'T get annoyed with it are the ones typing it - enter BigMick and his Merry Men, stage left...

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:30 am

Sir Roger wrote:"The first goal is crucial" was one of my least favourite Rafa sayings. He doesnt say it as much these days
Anyone know why?

Why, my dear fellow, it's because you are a lady's fun piece.

by **kazza** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:44 am

aCe' wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
heimdall wrote:Lando is funny, not sure he means to be though.

he always gives such a balanced view and treats everyone with respect oh and he redefines the word irony with every post

In this case Lando accusing BM of being an ego maniac, I mean seriously you couldn't make it up could you, well actually Lando could but most mere mortals surely couldn't.

Lando please tell me how old you are and why you feel the need to question peoples intelligence all the time, why are you so insecure that you feel the need to attack others? Come on share with the forum, maybe it'll be the first step on the road to recovery, I still think you should see a psychiatrist though for anger management if nothing else, I dread to think how you treat your "loved" ones or indeed how you have been treated.

Another example of an idiot following the crowd.

Why can't it be that I am just so completely angered by the ignorance shown by the like of you?

Don't try to be a psychiatrist, Heimdall - you'd get sacked inside a minute.

Oopsy did you pick up another card Lando, want to talk about it, I'm listening.

The thing is Lando is you use foul language then you are going to p1ss people off immediately and they won't listen to you at all and if you try to belittle peopel well that's just pathetic. Why do you believe you are so much smarter than everybody else anyway? A truly intelligent person would NOT feel the need to put other people down all the time.

What exactly are you trying to do to me with this post, then, Einstein?

If you had to read drivel typed by people with less knowledge than a new-born baby girl day after day, you might lose your rag a bit, too. If you'd taken the time on a fair few occasions to set the record straight, only for the facts to be shot down in more written sputum, YOU'D probably get the hump.

If you weren't such a miserable chap, YOU'D probably get a bit cross when people make things worse straight after being knocked out of the Champions' League.

The thing is, bad outcomes only ever seem to excuse the NEGATIVE comments. "Rafa's sh*t - f*ck off back to Spain" - that is acceptable after a defeat, apparently.

But telling the biggest protagonist in the history of Newkit to f*ck off and stop posting the same rubbish day in, day out is sacrilegious, evidently.

I believe I have had an epiphany: Remove BigMick, and the board would be a much nicer place: No more repetitive threads, no more bull-rustling from the head cowboy and no more utter tripe for the hordes of unintelligible non-fans to hide behind and essentially add they "like this post."

That's why I get annoyed, monobrow. That's probably why a few others get annoyed - constant, incessant bullpats stinking the place out with unerring frequency.

The trouble is that the only ones who DON'T get annoyed with it are the ones typing it - enter BigMick and his Merry Men, stage left...

hahaha... Lando ... still bitter that no one takes you seriously i see ...

Actually there is a fair bit of truth to what he says. Just because he gives everyone silly nicknames, communicates and pushes his agenda through PM and the like does not change the fact that 90% of his posts essentially say the say same thing: "the team is cr@p (now I am not saying the team is sh1t)" and then going on to call himself a prophet and then a victim "for setting us straight". If it was a post or two a day that would be one thing but it is a constant stream of negativity (and the point is most is incorrect and re-wording of the sh1t you hear from idiot pundits that are caught up in the hype). Now I know you are part of his "posse" so I do not expect any different from you, but it occurs to me that many feel the same although will not come out and say it. Eh Acey!

(thought I would try)

The thing is some posters paint themselves into a corner by what they preach where their opinion becomes more important than the team winning. Remember last year? Mick was going on about how it would be doom and gloom we sold Keane. He got so hot about it that you would think it was the end of the world. We went on to play super football and yet Mick disappeared until we lost to Chelsea in the CL. Then he was back preaching where we went wrong. I seriously cannot believe how he has a following as his agenda seems to not be support but rather his own opinion of himself. Then again, sheep will be sheep.

:sleep

(I thought I would save you the trouble)

by **shawnk** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:19 am

lakes10 wrote:i think if anyone saw any of the build up games to the season they could see things were not right.
i think the war with Rafa and alonso had a lot to do with it and it left a bad feeling in the dressing room, a feeling that has been hard to get rid of.

I dont quite remember the exact story and timing but I do remember that Rafa wanted to sell Alonso at first at the end of 07/08 season. But for some reason he stayed on and started to be included in the 08/09 and performed superbly.

But Alonso lost his loyalty when Rafa wanted to sell him for money. Any employee would feel the same if I get my story right.

And sticking back to the title of this thread to respect the owner, I think it's the stubbornness of Rafa to expect Lucas to fit into Alonso's role. Without Alonso and the players available, there's need to switch the position and formation to compensate things. Not sticking to the same way.

by **andy_g** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:54 am

kazza and lando, do you not see the irony / hypocrisy in what you are saying? you continuously accuse mick of repetitively writing the same old things and trying to convert people to believe the same as him - but is that not exactly the same as you two are trying to do? for example, lando, you mention at the top of this page that you try to 'put people right' and get ever more frustrated when you don't succeed. frustrated to the point in fact that you get yourself all in a tizz and pick up another card. kazza, you just go for the character assassination and make all sorts of childish insults and speculations about mick's character. you then both dream up this fantasy that he has a bunch of 'followers', 'cohorts', 'acolytes' or whatever and you only get more and more frustrated and start banging away at your keyboards with ever more fervour in an attempt to sway peoples' views even more.

the truth of the matter is that the only people who are Fu*king up this forum are the ones that constantly bitch and moan about the input of other posters who are at least trying to dicuss the matters in hand. if you don't like it then be a grown up and ignore it and move on until you find something you'd like to dicuss. don't behave like a little school kid throwing around stupid infantile insults and casting aspersions about peoples' characters and then claim some sort of moral high ground for having done so.

to be honest i find myself agreeing less with mick's views and miss the days when he'd post good stuff about tactics, formations and intricacies of the game. but right now the overriding theme is that we're in trouble and there's a lot we can discuss about why that is the case.

let's have a couple of open questions:
a) are we currently in a precarious situation with the team performing badly?
b) shall we highlight what the problems are then, and see if we can work out where its been going wrong?

if your answer to question 'a' is a resounding 'no' then there is no point reading on because your heads are firmly buried in the sand. just carry on shouting 'go, rafa!' and waving your scarf believing that everything is just rosy in the garden of lfc. dismiss the ones who are concerned about the defeats as people happy to have their point proven (ridiculous assumption number 1 on this forum), not 'real' supporters, and build your insulting barricades a little higher.

if your answer is 'yes', as most open minded, objective thinking people would answer, then lets have a discussion about why that is the case. lets analyse all the possibilities about purchases, budgets, individuals, tactics, motivations, etc etc etc. the truth is we don't know the definitive answer but at least we can have a good hard look at things. and yes, its going to get a little repetitive because their isn't a whole lot else to talk about. its also not always going to be pleasant reading because its not exactly a pleasant situation to be in. or would you prefer a small number of threads like,

- europa league, yay we'll win it!
or
- rafa benitez, its ok, he'll make it all better
or
- kuyt, he's the 2nd best winger in the premiership

followed by 300 posts basically saying 'yes, thats right, we're the best'...?? support and flag waving is for the ground, and in and around the pubs before and after the game. that's where we do our work as supporters to cheer on the team, to show them our passion and belief. on here it doesn't really matter, none of them are reading it, and we should be free to say what's on our minds about the state of the team and its performances.

by **made in UK** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:00 am

Brilliant post AndyG well said.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:08 am

Agreed Andy even my rose tinted specs are not enough to know that there is something seriously wrong with all aspects at the club.

From the owners not investing enough money.
The managers continuation of playing Lucas and kuyt.
The players underperforming.

by **Dazzer** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:16 am

Ciggy wrote:Agreed Andy even my rose tinted specs are not enough to know that there is something seriously wrong with all aspects at the club.

From the owners not investing enough money.
The managers continuation of playing Lucas and kuyt.
The players underperforming.

I think thats right ciggy we can all blame Rafa at the moment but it is a mix of things and I think what you said has sumed it up.

Always two sides to every story and its never all ones persons fault we have to tho as fans stop blindly supporting Rafa and on same note stop calling for his head after every game we don't do well in.I always felt as a liverpool fan we as fans have a great knowlage about football and know when a managers time is up.But its hard atm for any one to make the call because there is so many factors in the mix this time.

Sacking the manager at this time could be a good thing give new hope to players out of the loop also give the regs a kick up the butt they need.But also on flip side can we really trust the owners to bring in the right man to replace Rafa ?

Its not an easy time to be a liverpool fan but I am sure there is alot of truth in most peoples statements about how they feel atm.I think we should all be a little more forgiving to members who are openly sharing their personal views as its a very emotional time for us all.

by **kazza** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:37 am

andy_g wrote:kazza and lando, do you not see the irony / hypocrisy in what you are saying? you continuously accuse mick of repetitively writing the same old things and trying to convert people to believe the same as him - but is that not exactly the same as you two are trying to do? for example, lando, you mention at the top of this page that you try to 'put people right' and get ever more frustrated when you don't succeed. frustrated to the point in fact that you get yourself all in a tizz and pick up another card. kazza, you just go for the character assassination and make all sorts of childish insults and speculations about mick's character. you then both dream up this fantasy that he has a bunch of 'followers', 'cohorts', 'acolytes' or whatever and you only get more and more frustrated and start banging away at your keyboards with ever more fervour in an attempt to sway peoples' views even more.

the truth of the matter is that the only people who are Fu*king up this forum are the ones that constantly bitch and moan about the input of other posters who are at least trying to dicuss the matters in hand. if you don't like it then be a grown up and ignore it and move on until you find something you'd like to dicuss. don't behave like a little school kid throwing around stupid infantile insults and casting aspersions about peoples' characters and then claim some sort of moral high ground for having done so.

to be honest i find myself agreeing less with mick's views and miss the days when he'd post good stuff about tactics, formations and intricacies of the game. but right now the overriding theme is that we're in trouble and there's a lot we can discuss about why that is the case.

let's have a couple of open questions:
a) are we currently in a precarious situation with the team performing badly?
b) shall we highlight what the problems are then, and see if we can work out where its been going wrong?

if your answer to question 'a' is a resounding 'no' then there is no point reading on because your heads are firmly buried in the sand. just carry on shouting 'go, rafa!' and waving your scarf believing that everything is just rosy in the garden of lfc. dismiss the ones who are concerned about the defeats as people happy to have their point proven (ridiculous assumption number 1 on this forum), not 'real' supporters, and build your insulting barricades a little higher.

if your answer is 'yes', as most open minded, objective thinking people would answer, then lets have a discussion about why that is the case. lets analyse all the possibilities about purchases, budgets, individuals, tactics, motivations, etc etc etc. the truth is we don't know the definitive answer but at least we can have a good hard look at things. and yes, its going to get a little repetitive because their isn't a whole lot else to talk about. its also not always going to be pleasant reading because its not exactly a pleasant situation to be in. or would you prefer a small number of threads like,

- europa league, yay we'll win it!
or
- rafa benitez, its ok, he'll make it all better
or
- kuyt, he's the 2nd best winger in the premiership

followed by 300 posts basically saying 'yes, thats right, we're the best'...?? support and flag waving is for the ground, and in and around the pubs before and after the game. that's where we do our work as supporters to cheer on the team, to show them our passion and belief. on here it doesn't really matter, none of them are reading it, and we should be free to say what's on our minds about the state of the team and its performances.

Sorry andy I am sure you are sick of it well so am I. I re-read my post and I do not see the ranting of a child or remember typing myself into a ferver in fact I still stand by what I said. It is a popularity contest and if you cannot see then maybe you should re-evaluate. Point is there is truth in what you say but I do feel like I am on my high horse as I do not see anyone doing anything about it. The last thing I expect is anyone agreeing with me, even though many may know I am right but what am I to do. Start ignoring sh!t threads and there will nothing to read. I do not take offence at Saint because he goes about it in a different way although sharing the same basic opinion. I do feel he truley wants the team to succeed but I do not get the same feeling with mick. This forum is his thing not the team.

This last thread was nothing but a wind-up as this topic has been so beaten to death (in a number of his threads) that nothing new will come out of it. Are we in trouble? Not quite but it does not look good. Is the team playing well? NO! Is it Raffa's fault? Partly but mostly no. Is Raffa the right man for the job? yes! Should we stand by the team? Yes. Can we turn the season around? Yes! Shall we throw in the towel? No. Shall we criticise everything the manager does? No. Should we object when others do? My vote is yes.

In a world of negative or positive I will always choose the latter, no agenda to push other than the team. As for me attacking his character, well maybe you should go back and check. "you are strange" "clueless" and my favourite "stalker" are not terms of enderment last I checked, but you never objected then.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:41 am

I have too much sentiment for Rafa and feel very loyal to him for giving me some of the best times in my life. Ive been loyal to most Liverpool managers in my time. Proud that the club the board and the fans stuck by them, I didn't want Houllier to get the sack, I was quite fond of him to, but I knew he had to go once he had that open heart surgery he should have stepped down then, his health is more important than the club and we suffered because he put his life on the line for us.

But under the current ownership I am 100% Rafa. If they sacked him god knows who they would appoint, people dreaming of hiddink and Mourhino well they really need to open their eyes because neither manager would work for the current regime that run our club. Rafa is holding our club together along with Lee, Purse-low, Ayres and daglish, the custodians are in America & Canada and dont give a sh!t nor do they get along and thats why the club is so badly run.

I also take into account Rafa and his wife (and his kids are scousers)

, who both dearly love the club, the people and the city, then it becomes a bit overwhelming and thats where the sentiment comes in.
These are powerful feelings which are all part of being a Liverpool fan.

However he does get things wrong now and again, should he be sacked now? Well my answer is NO, you dont turn into a bad manager over night, and a good team doesnt either.
Its up to the manager and players now to turn our season around lets see if they have the metal to do so, if they dont well serious questions need to be asked why not.

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:44 am

andy_g wrote:kazza and lando, do you not see the irony / hypocrisy in what you are saying? you continuously accuse mick of repetitively writing the same old things and trying to convert people to believe the same as him - but is that not exactly the same as you two are trying to do? for example, lando, you mention at the top of this page that you try to 'put people right' and get ever more frustrated when you don't succeed. frustrated to the point in fact that you get yourself all in a tizz and pick up another card. kazza, you just go for the character assassination and make all sorts of childish insults and speculations about mick's character. you then both dream up this fantasy that he has a bunch of 'followers', 'cohorts', 'acolytes' or whatever and you only get more and more frustrated and start banging away at your keyboards with ever more fervour in an attempt to sway peoples' views even more.

the truth of the matter is that the only people who are Fu*king up this forum are the ones that constantly bitch and moan about the input of other posters who are at least trying to dicuss the matters in hand. if you don't like it then be a grown up and ignore it and move on until you find something you'd like to dicuss. don't behave like a little school kid throwing around stupid infantile insults and casting aspersions about peoples' characters and then claim some sort of moral high ground for having done so.

to be honest i find myself agreeing less with mick's views and miss the days when he'd post good stuff about tactics, formations and intricacies of the game. but right now the overriding theme is that we're in trouble and there's a lot we can discuss about why that is the case.

let's have a couple of open questions:
a) are we currently in a precarious situation with the team performing badly?
b) shall we highlight what the problems are then, and see if we can work out where its been going wrong?

if your answer to question 'a' is a resounding 'no' then there is no point reading on because your heads are firmly buried in the sand. just carry on shouting 'go, rafa!' and waving your scarf believing that everything is just rosy in the garden of lfc. dismiss the ones who are concerned about the defeats as people happy to have their point proven (ridiculous assumption number 1 on this forum), not 'real' supporters, and build your insulting barricades a little higher.

if your answer is 'yes', as most open minded, objective thinking people would answer, then lets have a discussion about why that is the case. lets analyse all the possibilities about purchases, budgets, individuals, tactics, motivations, etc etc etc. the truth is we don't know the definitive answer but at least we can have a good hard look at things. and yes, its going to get a little repetitive because their isn't a whole lot else to talk about. its also not always going to be pleasant reading because its not exactly a pleasant situation to be in. or would you prefer a small number of threads like,

- europa league, yay we'll win it!
or
- rafa benitez, its ok, he'll make it all better
or
- kuyt, he's the 2nd best winger in the premiership

followed by 300 posts basically saying 'yes, thats right, we're the best'...?? support and flag waving is for the ground, and in and around the pubs before and after the game. that's where we do our work as supporters to cheer on the team, to show them our passion and belief. on here it doesn't really matter, none of them are reading it, and we should be free to say what's on our minds about the state of the team and its performances.

One of the best posts I've read on here in ages, well said ,hear hear etc. :bowdown

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:49 am

kazza wrote:Are we in trouble? Not quite but it does not look good. Is the team playing well? NO! Is it Raffa's fault? Partly but mostly no. Is Raffa the right man for the job? yes! Should we stand by the team? Yes. Can we turn the season around? Yes! Shall we throw in the towel? No. Shall we criticise everything the manager does? No. Should we object when others do? My vote is yes.

You always forget to say in your opinion Kazza, those are clearly your opinions, I respect them but fundamentally disagree with them. Why can't we discuss from that position instead of continually doubting how good fans we are and calling each other infantile names? BTW you don't do the name calling but at the same time you do have a lof of difficulty in accepting other peopels views.

by **kazza** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:52 am

heimdall wrote:
andy_g wrote:kazza and lando, do you not see the irony / hypocrisy in what you are saying? you continuously accuse mick of repetitively writing the same old things and trying to convert people to believe the same as him - but is that not exactly the same as you two are trying to do? for example, lando, you mention at the top of this page that you try to 'put people right' and get ever more frustrated when you don't succeed. frustrated to the point in fact that you get yourself all in a tizz and pick up another card. kazza, you just go for the character assassination and make all sorts of childish insults and speculations about mick's character. you then both dream up this fantasy that he has a bunch of 'followers', 'cohorts', 'acolytes' or whatever and you only get more and more frustrated and start banging away at your keyboards with ever more fervour in an attempt to sway peoples' views even more.

the truth of the matter is that the only people who are Fu*king up this forum are the ones that constantly bitch and moan about the input of other posters who are at least trying to dicuss the matters in hand. if you don't like it then be a grown up and ignore it and move on until you find something you'd like to dicuss. don't behave like a little school kid throwing around stupid infantile insults and casting aspersions about peoples' characters and then claim some sort of moral high ground for having done so.

to be honest i find myself agreeing less with mick's views and miss the days when he'd post good stuff about tactics, formations and intricacies of the game. but right now the overriding theme is that we're in trouble and there's a lot we can discuss about why that is the case.

let's have a couple of open questions:
a) are we currently in a precarious situation with the team performing badly?
b) shall we highlight what the problems are then, and see if we can work out where its been going wrong?

if your answer to question 'a' is a resounding 'no' then there is no point reading on because your heads are firmly buried in the sand. just carry on shouting 'go, rafa!' and waving your scarf believing that everything is just rosy in the garden of lfc. dismiss the ones who are concerned about the defeats as people happy to have their point proven (ridiculous assumption number 1 on this forum), not 'real' supporters, and build your insulting barricades a little higher.

if your answer is 'yes', as most open minded, objective thinking people would answer, then lets have a discussion about why that is the case. lets analyse all the possibilities about purchases, budgets, individuals, tactics, motivations, etc etc etc. the truth is we don't know the definitive answer but at least we can have a good hard look at things. and yes, its going to get a little repetitive because their isn't a whole lot else to talk about. its also not always going to be pleasant reading because its not exactly a pleasant situation to be in. or would you prefer a small number of threads like,

- europa league, yay we'll win it!
or
- rafa benitez, its ok, he'll make it all better
or
- kuyt, he's the 2nd best winger in the premiership

followed by 300 posts basically saying 'yes, thats right, we're the best'...?? support and flag waving is for the ground, and in and around the pubs before and after the game. that's where we do our work as supporters to cheer on the team, to show them our passion and belief. on here it doesn't really matter, none of them are reading it, and we should be free to say what's on our minds about the state of the team and its performances.

One of the best posts I've read on here in ages, well said ,hear hear etc.

No offence but you and "talk sense" have never been in the same room let alone the same sentence.You are the last one to talk about talking sense. :laugh:

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