Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:06 pm

I dont think its down to one thing. And its not just started this season. We can focus on particulars but I believe its all the ingredients together which has fuc'ked up the soup.
Theres no doubt in my mind that the pair of pric'ks known as Moores and Parry started the ball rolling by Fu*king off the arabs and bringing in the yanks. God knows what they were promised but oh how they were duped by these pair of grifters.
Rafa must surely not be far behind as far as blame and for me showed his true colours in the CL final in 07. He had already worried me before that with his treatment of Crouch and Bellamy and his preference for dross such as Zenden. We lost a final which was far easier to win than the miracle in Istanbul. Yet Rafa stood firm behind his decisions and made (as he always does) a strong case for the loss.
Someone has said the chickens have come home to roost. I concur with this because I believe the biggest, and in my opinion needless gamble was to try and get the blatantly average Barry to replace the classy, world class Alonso. Right there, the season before last he sowed the seeds of what were reaping now.
A gamble which blew up in his face when he didnt get Barry but got Keane instead. A seasoned PL and international striker. Because he lost out on Barry he had no use for Keane so he was gone, leaving no credible substitute for Torres. Alonso played out of his skin last season and left for pastures new because of the Barry fiasco. And so we are left with Lucas to fill the hole. With all the best will in the world he has got no chance. Add on to this Rafas obsession with ignoring any criticism of his tactics, formations and team selections, plus his unwavering support and blind faith in the likes of Kuyt, or the scary Voronin, it is no wonder were in the position we are today.
Yes hes been unlucky with injuries.
Yes hes been hamstrung to some extant with the yank situation.
Yes he hasnt had the rub of the green.
But he has made the decisions which have shaped the destiny of this club for the last five years.
The buck HAS to stop with him.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:10 pm

Did anyone get on the Souness interview last night after the game, Ive been trying to find it , Anyway basicaly he was saying forget about the Liverpool of here an now, he was worried about the long term future. Good good few words from Souness tbh which makes a change,

by **Ciggy** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:13 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Did anyone get on the Souness interview last night after the game, Ive been trying to find it , Anyway basicaly he was saying forget about the Liverpool of here an now, he was worried about the long term future. Good good few words from Souness tbh which makes a change,

I heard him he said the Yanks have to go and sell up now they cannot take the club forward.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:21 pm

Ciggy wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Did anyone get on the Souness interview last night after the game, Ive been trying to find it , Anyway basicaly he was saying forget about the Liverpool of here an now, he was worried about the long term future. Good good few words from Souness tbh which makes a change,

I heard him he said the Yanks have to go and sell up now they cannot take the club forward.

What he was saying though Cigg really fecking hit home for me, Dosnt matter who we have as the manager ,Yes we could have Mourinho, we could have wenger, but until them two go we are gonna struggle no matter who the manager is, Felt sick when he was going on about the banks an finishing in the top 4 , But everything he said was the truth,

Totaly agree with you on the Lucas, Javier partnership , one or the other it has to be,

by **stmichael** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:26 pm

despite how poorly we're playing at the moment, what still gives me hope about finishing in the top 4 is the fact that the likes of spurs and city have no experience of what it takes to be up there. city aren't exactly pulling down any trees either recently and despite spurs battering wigan they've recently lost to stoke and couldn't beat bolton.

if we can get our best eleven fit (touchwood) that team is better than anything city or spurs can field imo. they also have nobody who instills the fear factor like gerrard or torres do.

it's gonna be a long hard slog though. we're also gonna be playing catch up every other weekend as we'll be playing on sundays more often than not in the new year.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:27 pm

NANNY RED wrote:What he was saying though Cigg really fecking hit home for me, Dosnt matter who we have as the manager ,Yes we could have Mourinho, we could have wenger, but until them two go we are gonna struggle no matter who the manager is, Felt sick when he was going on about the banks an finishing in the top 4 , But everything he said was the truth,

yeah he was spot on and about babel he was fuming about the timing of the interview.

by **made in UK** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:29 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Did anyone get on the Souness interview last night after the game, Ive been trying to find it , Anyway basicaly he was saying forget about the Liverpool of here an now, he was worried about the long term future. Good good few words from Souness tbh which makes a change,

I heard him he said the Yanks have to go and sell up now they cannot take the club forward.

What he was saying though Cigg really fecking hit home for me, Dosnt matter who we have as the manager ,Yes we could have Mourinho, we could have wenger, but until them two go we are gonna struggle no matter who the manager is, Felt sick when he was going on about the banks an finishing in the top 4 , But everything he said was the truth,

Totaly agree with you on the Lucas, Javier partnership , one or the other it has to be,

Nanny a straight yes or no will do.

Has Rafa contributed to our downfall this season. Yes or No?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:31 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Did anyone get on the Souness interview last night after the game, Ive been trying to find it , Anyway basicaly he was saying forget about the Liverpool of here an now, he was worried about the long term future. Good good few words from Souness tbh which makes a change,

Graeme Souness: Rafa Benitez is living on past glories at Liverpool

Liverpool legend Graeme Souness blames the American owners for the current problems at Anfield, but also insists that manager Rafa Benitez is relying on past glory to keep him in his job.

The former manager also believes that Fernando Torres will be sold should the Reds not manage to qualify for next season's Champions League.

"If you ask me about any managers, particularly Liverpool managers because I know how difficult that job is, I'm not going to tell you 'this one should go or that one should stay', but I think he's very fortunate that he's managing Liverpool," Souness told Sky Sports.

"At Liverpool you get more of a chance than any of the other big clubs out there. He's very lucky that he won that European Cup so early on in his reign.

"I think that's bought him a lot of time, and there's still a great deal of affection out there for him with the people in Liverpool.

"But if they lose to Everton on Sunday and I think that would be another hard blow for the red side of Liverpool to take.

"It's a hard business today managing at the highest level, but again I'm trying to look beyond personnel. I worked for them for a long, long time and some of the best days of my footballing career were at Liverpool, and I worry about the bigger picture.

"I'm not worrying about the present players, the present management, the present owners. They're only custodians.

"When you own a big football club, a club that's steeped in tradition, you're there to look after it and hopefully pass it on in better nick than when you got it.

"I don't think those two Americans will be doing that this time around. I think Liverpool's crying out for somebody from the Middle East to come with a big fat cheque that allows them to take care of the debt and allows them to move forward.

"As long as they've got that debt hanging round their neck they're going nowhere. They are going nowhere fast, and the big danger for me is that they drop out of the Champions League places this season now and they can no longer attract the best players.

"All of a sudden they're having to unload some of their biggest assets.

"If they're not in the Champions League next year I think that will cause Liverpool major problems.

"I would suggest that if that is the case then anything could happen in terms of people leaving Liverpool.

"And the biggest asset they've have is Torres.

----------------------------------

This one Nanny ?

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:49 pm

s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Did anyone get on the Souness interview last night after the game, Ive been trying to find it , Anyway basicaly he was saying forget about the Liverpool of here an now, he was worried about the long term future. Good good few words from Souness tbh which makes a change,

Graeme Souness: Rafa Benitez is living on past glories at Liverpool

Liverpool legend Graeme Souness blames the American owners for the current problems at Anfield, but also insists that manager Rafa Benitez is relying on past glory to keep him in his job.

The former manager also believes that Fernando Torres will be sold should the Reds not manage to qualify for next season's Champions League.

"If you ask me about any managers, particularly Liverpool managers because I know how difficult that job is, I'm not going to tell you 'this one should go or that one should stay', but I think he's very fortunate that he's managing Liverpool," Souness told Sky Sports.

"At Liverpool you get more of a chance than any of the other big clubs out there. He's very lucky that he won that European Cup so early on in his reign.

"I think that's bought him a lot of time, and there's still a great deal of affection out there for him with the people in Liverpool.

"But if they lose to Everton on Sunday and I think that would be another hard blow for the red side of Liverpool to take.

"It's a hard business today managing at the highest level, but again I'm trying to look beyond personnel. I worked for them for a long, long time and some of the best days of my footballing career were at Liverpool, and I worry about the bigger picture.

"I'm not worrying about the present players, the present management, the present owners. They're only custodians.

"When you own a big football club, a club that's steeped in tradition, you're there to look after it and hopefully pass it on in better nick than when you got it.

"I don't think those two Americans will be doing that this time around. I think Liverpool's crying out for somebody from the Middle East to come with a big fat cheque that allows them to take care of the debt and allows them to move forward.

"As long as they've got that debt hanging round their neck they're going nowhere. They are going nowhere fast, and the big danger for me is that they drop out of the Champions League places this season now and they can no longer attract the best players.

"All of a sudden they're having to unload some of their biggest assets.

"If they're not in the Champions League next year I think that will cause Liverpool major problems.

"I would suggest that if that is the case then anything could happen in terms of people leaving Liverpool.

"And the biggest asset they've have is Torres.

----------------------------------

This one Nanny ?

Hes not saying anything that hasnt been said on here at one time or another
And if anyone sould know about Fu*king Liverpool up it Souness...

by **stmichael** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:57 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Did anyone get on the Souness interview last night after the game, Ive been trying to find it , Anyway basicaly he was saying forget about the Liverpool of here an now, he was worried about the long term future. Good good few words from Souness tbh which makes a change,

8.30 in:

http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0,23791,16557_5717623,00.html

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:59 pm

Rush gave a far better interview on sky this morning

by **Effes** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:04 pm

Some of the histrionics by some people in this thread is pathetic.

It's the centre of midfield dilemma that has damaged us this season.

Buying an injured player, then playing Lucas and Mascherano.

And Im not just saying that with hindsight.
There was a whole thread about what we were to do til Aquilani was fit, and a lot of people
were highlighting the fact that Lucas/Masch in the middle wouldn't produce results.

It aint rocket science.

by **Waldo** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:05 pm

Everything that can have gone wrong has gone wrong this season so far...I don't think there is anything new on what I say but when you add them all up then it is a fair appraisal of where we are -

- Not replacing Alonso
- Owners unrest
- Lack of funds to strengthen in key positions (proper centre half / 2nd striker)
- No settled defence with injuries to almost every defender at some point
- Gerrard being in injured
- Benayoun injured
- Torres being injured

We have plenty of time to make up for this p*ss poor start to the season though and I remain upbeat that we can go on one of those runs that propels us back up into the top 4, we can win the Europa Cup and we can win the FA cup.

by **milou** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:08 pm

bigmick wrote:So if we had our time again, if we could spin back the clock from the end of last season, where did we feck it up the most? I know there's probably a million reasons, but which one would you do different to the way we did it, obviously with the benefit of hindsight?

No doubt the fact that we sold Alonso will figure high on lists as we've obviously missed him. We've even arguably missed him as much as some of his most ardent supporters assured us we would, but given his determination to move on, could we have stopped him? The damage had arguably already been done as far as Xabi was concerned, so was it that we didn't sign an immediate replacement?

Is it too early to describe the signing of Aquilani as a mistake given the fact that by the time he is fit we will be out of three competitions at least? Was our ultimate mistake in not making sure we got Gareth Barry, perhaps we should have asured him we were going to play him centrally?

Perhaps not signing a credible player as striker cover behind Torres was the main error of judgement, or even putting too much trust in Lucas/Babel thinking they could do a job?

Or was it the pre season, the games against Heimdalls Harriers and the like meaning that we were never fully wound up for the big kick off?

Maybe we haven't made mistakes, we're just the victims of circumstance, or perhaps we aren't actually as good as some of us think we are anyway?

So what do you reckon? My money is on signing a player who wasn't fit for central midfield and expecting Lucas to be able to fill in.

I think there is no need for argument or abuse really.. if you don't like the thread then don't comment on it.. I think it is as simple as that. But judging from the level of interest on this thread, it is pretty clear to me that this topic is relevant to most.

FWIW, our current problem in order of weightage:

1) The Yanks - need it say more?

2) Lack of money - This is not just down to the yanks but a long standing problem since other big clubs moved on with bigger and better stadiums. We are now earning millions less in EVERY home game.

3) Injury crisis - With our kind of abnormal injury list, I don't think there is a team who wouldn't struggle.. Bad luck? Bad training mythology? You be the judge..

4) Change of tactics by Rafa - Realizing the need to not just draw but to go all out to win (exactly what we have been asking him to do), he is now deploying attacking fullbacks (insua, johnson), who are unfortunately not very good defenders. This has upset the whole balance of the team.. leading to complete collapse of confidence.

5) Bad luck - Really a case of "Hero to zero".. from specializing in scoring late goals last season, we have instead now developed a habit of conceding late goals! Wouldn't we be still in with a shout in the league and UCL if our defence just held up like we normally (i said normally bcos we have come to a stage that we took it for granted really) do? And how about us not having to play away to a strong team like spurs in the FIRST game of the season? Isn't it like 6 years in a row that we have started each season with an away game? I know it is not an excuse but do you not suspect things to pan out a little differently if we played a mid-table team at home on the first day instead?

6) "Less than serious" pre-season - How could we build momentum when we were still getting hammered just a few days before the season proper? Does any one think MAYBE the automatic UCL berth (for finishing 2nd last season) didn't do us any favor either? Bcos past years, we would have at least played one serious game (against usually not very good opponents) before the first league game..

7) Loss of Alonso - I put much less weightage on his departure than most do but granted, we do miss him in certain aspects of our game. But had we defend properly (which is NOT Alonso's main duty anyway), we wouldn't be in our current mess, with or without him really. When Alonso got injured past years, you didn't see us playing as badly as we are now, right?

8) Loss of Hyypia - People are "missing" Hyypia only bcos with the benefits of hindsight that we are doing so badly defensively. Let's face it.. Most fans already accepted that Hyypia's best days are gone.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:08 pm

Waldo wrote:we can win the Europa Cup and we can win the FA cup.

On current form we wouldnt even win a raffle.

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